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32665Re: [dsg] VISIBLE OBJECT IS NOT A DOT OF LIGHT!!!

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  • upasaka@aol.com
    May 1, 2004
      Hi, TG -

      In a message dated 5/1/04 12:54:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
      TGrand458@... writes:

      > In a message dated 4/30/2004 9:12:33 PM Pacific Standard Time,
      > upasaka@... writes:
      > Seeing is a kind of awareness, a visual experience, and the object of
      > that is not a photon but a sight. A photon is an element of a biophysical,
      > predictive, conceptual system/theory.
      >
      > With metta,
      > Howard
      > Hi Howard
      >
      > Could you be more specific by what you mean by "sight?" (Keep in mind the
      > topic here is "visible object.") I can only infer when you say "sight" that
      > you
      > are taking about a "view" of something "out there." Regarding your first
      > two
      > statements that -- (Seeing is a kind of awareness, a visual experience) I
      > would regard that as indisputable. A photon is theoretical, but the fact
      > that
      > light energy needs to contact the eye in order to see is not. In the mean
      > time
      > let me be more clear...
      >
      > Whatever we experience through the senses is always an energy that has made
      > contact with one of the sense bases and the corresponding consciousness. We
      >
      > don't actually see a car. We see light (photons, electro-magnetic energy,)
      > reflecting off a car. The car is interpreted (from the contact of light)
      > and as
      > such is a perception and mental interpretation based on the way the light
      > hits
      > the eye (and based on previous conditioning/education.)
      >
      > There are a lot of "sights" "out there." We do not see them unless the
      > energy of light contacts the eye/mind. The topic here is "visible object"
      > and
      > visible object is indeed light. (And that's no rumour.) ;-)
      >
      > TG
      >
      ============================
      The world of the physicists may or may not be a reality. Within the
      biophysical theory of sight, there is posited the existence of wave-particle
      events called "photons" occurring in an "exterior world" that impact the retina
      of the eye (the eye being another presumed reality, but referred to by some
      Buddhists as a "conventional object" and by some as "pa~n~natti", and by some
      Mahayanists as "mind-only"), producing nerve impulses that travel to the brain,
      and the brain responding by producing (excreting? ;-) "consciousness of visual
      object". This is a story to account for, interpret, and predict certain
      phenomena. It is just a story. It may well be a true one - we don't know. It is
      certainly useful.
      Phenomenologically, however - that is, in terms of direct experience,
      whether or not there is an external world independent of experience, and
      whether or not photons are part of it, seeing is not the experience of photons, it
      is the experience of visual objects, and phenomenologically, sights are not
      "out there" (nor are they "in here") - they just "are", or better, they just
      "occur". A photon is not the object of sight but of thought. This is the
      distinction that I make. It is my perspective alone - I'm not a dealer or pusher. ;-))

      With phenomenal metta,
      Howard

      /Thus is how ye shall see all this fleeting world: A star at dawn, a bubble
      in a stream, a flash of lightning in a summer cloud, a flickering lamp, a
      phantom, and a dream./ (From the Diamond Sutra)




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