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22730Re: Anatta Precepts

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  • rjkjp1
    Jun 7, 2003
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      --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "christine_forsyth"
      <cforsyth@v...> wrote:
      > Dear Robert, and all,
      >
      I'm much more comfortable now that I see
      > there are choices, though these are conditioned. For example, I
      > presently would not kill myself or another, or sell my home and
      spend
      > the rest of my life travelling, or become a Catholic nun. Though
      > these things are possible to do, I could not do any of them at
      this
      > time, because of conditions i.e.

      __________
      Dear Christine,
      Yes, that's right. We might imagine that if there is no self and no
      control that then anything can happen. Maybe we'll grab a gun and go
      on a rampage. But no, life is just like before but with gradually
      less selfview thinking that there is control. And if there is more
      understanding than there should be gradually less conditions for bad
      behaviour because akusala depends largely on self view; "how dare he
      do that: to ME!" "I should go and...". "Why can't THEY undersatand
      that..."
      Not so much getting caught up because sati that sees the
      conditionality of the moment and breaks through the delusions. So we
      can be patient with others kilesa and our own.
      _____________

      You say: "If it is
      > wisdom that is developing ...." This strikes a chord ... You
      see,
      > I'm sure I understood the conditionality of choice once before,
      but
      > then came to hold a different opinion. What exactly is panna? I
      > mean, how does one recognise whether one has it, and can it be
      lost?
      > I thought accumulations just accumulated and influenced action.
      Can
      > there be counterfeit panna?
      ___________

      What is that factor that starts to recognize what is Dhamma and what
      is not? It is panna, it comes in different levels.
      Counterfeit panna says there is no-self but believes dhammas are
      under their mastery.
      I think accumulations reveal themselves slowly once there is less
      idea of a self who has to do this, don't do that.
      _______________

      >
      > This marionette simile we've talked about before - unforgetable,
      and
      > quite chilling. I begin to feel that anatta means each of us is
      > something very like a set of mechanical processes (nama-rupa) that
      > come into existence because something is wrong (kama -> vipaka,
      > defilements). e.g. the movement sensor system in my house is
      comatose
      > until a certain stimulus makes it react fairly predictably and set
      in
      > train fairly predictable actions. If there was no stimulus, it
      > wouldn't 'come to life' (so to speak) i.e. -> note unauthorised
      > movement -> set off siren and blue flashing lights on outside of
      > house -> cause alarm at security centre -> cause telephone message
      to
      > be sent to nominated people -> initiate sending of armed officer
      to
      > my address.
      > What I am trying to say is that Anatta is arid and lonely. No-
      one,
      > nothing personal in it. [No sign of the old "God is Love" (?
      nibanna
      > is love) of the Christians that is so attractive and comforting.]
      > But no 'curiosity' makes it seem even worse - no interest or
      > awareness - how does nibanna, in the light of anatta, differ from
      > annihilation?
      > Has anyone ever thought that it might be a whole lot less scary to
      > just keep doing good actions with the aim of constant pleasant re-
      > births?
      > ___________
      Yes, the idea "nibbana", "enlightenment" sounds nice but how many
      are ready to give up everything. It's exciting to hear of 'stages of
      insight' but those same stages show absolutely there is only nama
      and rupa, and no self, no children, no friends.

      If only the self could be at its own funeral to enjoy the eulogy! It
      doesn't work that way. Mike said in a post once: ".
      So, 'I' dont mind giving up the idea of self, just so
      long as 'I'm' allowed to choose to do so (and receive
      the credit)...! ""
      RobertK
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