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22575Re: Precepts

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  • robmoult
    Jun 1, 2003
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      Hi Christine,

      --- In dhammastudygroup@yahoogroups.com, "christine_forsyth"
      <cforsyth@v...> wrote:
      > RobM: Thank you for your advice - on reflection, I see that one
      > should never be complacent about sila - unusual circumstances that
      > undermind restraint can pop up at any time. I'm not sure I agree
      > about lying being the most difficult precept to keep - this caused
      > some discussion this afternoon. Some thought that an alcoholic may
      > find the precept against intoxicating drugs to be the hardest,
      > thought it depended upon accumulations in general. Generally,
      > were concerned about other aspects of the Precept concerning
      > This group ('the first Sunday of the month mob') wondered where it
      > actually says that frivolous speech breaks the precept. And there
      > were varying ideas on what frivolous speech actually is... They
      > that more good comes out of what others (me :-)) might see as
      > frivolous speech, i.e. friendly supportive teasing, ironic
      > understated humour, which creates lasting bonds. (Todays group
      > included some of the Aussie blokes who also go to Cooran.)

      I agree that which precept is most difficult to keep depends on
      one's accumulations. I have been a tea-totaler for twenty years and
      I am a faithful husband, so for me it is lying that is the toughest
      to keep.

      "Frivolous speech" is akusala kamma patha, one of the ten
      unwholesome deeds that can lead to rebirth in a woeful states
      but "Frivolous speech" is not one of the five precepts, nor is it
      one of the eight precepts which are only kept on holy days.
      Eliminating "frivolous speech" is part of the path factor of "Right
      Speech". "Frivolous speech" is not uprooted until one becomes an

      The definition of "frivolous speech" that arises in the Suttas
      is, "tiracchana-katha: 'low talk', lit. 'beastly talk', is the name
      in the sutta-texts for the following: "Talk about kings and robbers,
      ministers and armies, danger and war, eating and drinking, clothes
      and dwellings, garlands and scents, relations, chariots, villages
      and markets, towns and districts, women and heroes, street talks,
      talks by the well, talk about those departed in days gone by, tittle-
      tattle, talks about world and sea, about gain and loss."

      Obviously, laypeople cannot avoid "frivolous speech".

      Hope that this helps.

      Rob M :-)
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