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126363Re: [dsg] conditions for understanding to arise

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  • jagkrit2012
    Sep 7, 2012
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      Hi Phil

      Ph: Understanding with more detachment, yes, I guess that's it. I just feel personally that if there isn't understanding of a teaching naturally, when we hear about it, understanding isn't ready for it, there are not conditions for it, and we should not try and try and discuss and discuss and debate and debate to figure it out, that is a practice that is rooted in a kind of wrong view as other practices are, it is going against conditions by forcing things.

      JJ: It is so true. I've been in that situation a lot why trying to understand without any suspicious that self is playing me then.


      Ph: Of course we know that hearing the teachings from a Dhamma friend is one of the conditions for panna, but I think we overestimate the value of discussing our way to proper understanding. We hear about a teacher, consider it briefly, and sometimes a light goes on, and mostly it doesn't. And usually in my case the understanding, the light that goes on, doesn't stick. There's no benefit from struggling against that, fighting it. But that is just my long-held hunch. I've been at DSG for years and years but have never stuck to one point to try to figure it out through discussion. That means that Nina and others have had to repeat teachings to me many times, but I think that is best for me and not bad for them since sharing the Dhamma is a deed of merit.

      JJ: I remember that T.A. Sujin always brings us the simile of gripping of a knife handle. When we grip a handle of a knife once or twice or even more, it is hard to notice any wearing away of the handle. Panna is the same. The development of Panna is so slow and as you said the light goes on but doesn't stick. In my opinion, when understanding is still at its minimum, it is hard to get understanding again when facing storm of realities while ignorance we carry for a long long time is still intact. This is why the Lord Buddha emphasized that "Patient" is the key to burn Kilesa or Akusala Dhammas. Without patient, it will be difficult to develop right understanding because Lobha will escort us to the opposite direction. It is therefore very fortunate that while learning dhammas we also have T.A. Sujin, Nina and other noble friends in DSG to contribute good guide of understanding.


      Ph: But as you say, more understanding *with detachment* If we are struggling to understand something, how can there be detachment? Maybe we can use the meditators favourite attempt at justification, "kusala chanda." But as with all forms of kusala, kusala chanda is much much rarer than we might like to think.

      JJ: I think that if we have even a little right understanding, kusala chanda is also conditioned to arise. In my opinion. it likes you first learn how to use a computer. You develop understanding how to use it at first. When you understand, you will have chanda (interesting) to use it for further benefit.


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