126330Re: [dsg] conditions for understanding to arise
- Sep 3, 2012Hi Phil
Phil: In Abhidhamma isn't "substantial thinking" related to vitekka/vicara? We don't really understand what those terms mean, not really, though we think we do when we read the similes of the bee and the flower or whatever it is.
JJ: I'm sorry to use the word "substanial thinking" without clarification. What I mean is "wholesome thinking". When Vitakka Cetasikka arises with others including Citta, then it performs fuction of thinking in mind door. The object of thinking, however, can be any thing including idea and concept (Pannatti). And the idea or concept, explaining reality eventhough it is Pannatti not reality itself, can bring us more understanding toward reality. That is my understanding of wholesome thinking.
Phil: So I think studying Abhidhamma and accepting that there are dhammas performing functions is fine, no matter how subtle the dhamma and the function is, but as soon as we get really attracted to a description of how things work, or come across an attractive simile and start to wrap are mind around it to see where it makes sense, the delerious thinking starts, a little. Then there can be conditions for letting go of the conceptual thinking, having gained a little understanding in a fairly detached way, or there can be conditions for getting lost in it, the way, for example, people get lost in speculating about D.O, 3 lifetimes, this moment, blah blah blah. We got lost, our thinking gets deleious. But friends like A.Sujin bring us back to seeing now, hearing now.
JJ: Your explanation above clarifies this issue very well. Along the way of learning and studying dhamma, delirious thinking always arises by previous accumulations and conditions. I think we can do nothing about that as Nina mentioned earlier. Only understanding even "little understanding in a fairly detached way" (As you mention above) may help to lessen delirious thinking.
Phil: That's the way I see it, we should approach Dhamma teachngs, touch them, and let go, touch them, and let go, touch them, and let go. But maybe that's just me, perhaps people do indeed develop understanding of the present reality by wrestling to work things out in discussion/debate.
JJ: "Touch them and let go" seems to be questionable to me. Do you mean " more understanding more detachment"?
Thank you and Anumothana
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