122922discussion from DCG group.
- Mar 1, 2012I saw this on Dhammachallengedgroup
Official DhammaChallengedGroup line [ODCGL]:
Intellectually challenged member[ICM]
[ODCGL]:Why do you want to study details of Abhidhamma. it is just book learning!
[ICM] I wanted to see what it says.
[ODCGL]:Just be aware of the present moment
[ICM]I don't see why someone would hold their arm in the air for 20 years. It looks like wrong view.
[ODCGL]:It just shows you don't understand , Awareness can arise anytime.
[ICM]Ok when someone says they don't believe in spontaneous beings and rebirth in deva worlds etc, I thought that was a sign of wrong view.
[ODCGL]: That shows right view. They don't believe in beings.
[ICM]Ok but can't we speak conventionally.
[ODCGL]:With metta, We can, you can't.
[ICM]Ok I think there is only nama and rupa,no beings.
[ODCGL]:It depends on whether there is panna present when you can say that.[ In your case there is no panna, so it is wrong.]with metta.
[ICM]Sometimes it looks like people who listen to a guru on a video tell them to focus on a point on the top of their head are having silabataparamasa
[ODCGL]: that is what vipassana is . If there is panna.
[ICM]But if someone writes that they can make sati arise by concentrating it looks like wrong view.
[ODCGL]: Words can never indicate wrong view or rightview. .Although they can help us learn boolean algelbra .
[ICM]Ok I think I understand now.
[ODCGL]:with all due metta, We understand you don't!
[ICM]that seems condescending .
[ODCGL]:That is because you don't understand Dhamma, in fact the cittas that wrote that were full of metta and wisdom. But there is always hope for you in future lives.
[ICM]I thought talking about future lives showed wrong view?
[ODCGL]: that is when you say it. When we say it, we are talking conventionally about the stream of khandhas arising and passing
[ICM]Oh good, I would like to talk about the stream of khandas.
[ODCGL]:You believe in a self.
[ICM] I was just saying that..
[ODCGL]:Don't talk about streams of cittas or khandhas, it's self view.
[ICM]I would like to discuss some points on akasa (space)
[ODCGL]:why not just be aware?
[ICM]Ok anyway in this post about akasa one of elders writes that ..
[ODCGL]:That is just book knowledge, why not be aware now..
[ICM]Why was it written then?
[ODCGL]: you wouldn't get it.
[ICM]about the man who holds his hand in the air, he was talking about flux..
[ODCGL]: YOU SEE, it shows his deep understanding ..
[ICM]But he was talking about the flux in his body, as in dysentery.
[ODCGL]:Words can never indicate right or wrong view
[ICM]If I say "be aware now" or "be aware of the present moment" that is ok though?
[ODCGL]:Yes. All discussions on dcg are about this.
[ICM]Umm one more question..
[ICM]Umm if I say 'be aware of the present moment' does it show that panna is present?
[ICM]Ok thanks. I thought right view and wrong view can't be known from words or discussion?
[ODCGL]:That is right: Concepts and realities are completely different, never the twain shall meet.
Anyway if you stick to looking up things in the commentaries and quoting them that is fine. Just don't make any typos.
[ICM]But I thought that comes under "scholarly discussions", not relevant to the present moment.
[ODCGL]:Yes, but its probably all you are capable of.. With all metta
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