101016Re: [dsg] Analytical study of 5 Khandhas, 12 bases & 18 elements
- Oct 1, 2009Hello Sarah, and all,
> sarah abbott <sarahprocterabbott@...> wrote:Thank you for that point. Though I don't think that I made an error.
> Hi Alex & all,
> >18 Elements (dhatu): Above 12 bases + 6 consciousness.
> S: We can't put it like that. The 12 bases consist of the 18 elements. There is no consciousness apart from those included in manayatana. [see 'Ayatanas' in U.P.]
Both ayatana & 18 dhatu have dhamma-ayatana/dhatu, but 18 dhatu have more specific analysis of 6 consciousness (which fit in dhamma ayatana).
> >Pleasant, unpleasant or neutral eye-sensation (cakkhu-vedana) is mental reality that is sensation aggregate, cognizable base and eye-consciousness element.First, by sensation I mean vedana. I don't like word "feeling" in most cases.
> S: You mean the vedana is dhamma-dhatu surely? Not eye-consciousness element.
> S: Same again. any vedana is dhamma-dhatu. It is not ear-consciousness.
> Same for all the others.
2nd) The suttas do talk that 6 organs can experience sukha/dukkha sensations. That is why there is such classification of 18 sensations (6x3) and so on.
I know that some say that eye can experience only neutral sensations, or something like that. Suttas say otherwise.
But even if we say that only body & mind can experience pleasant/unpleasant/neutral - why isn't eye/ear/nose/tongue BODY or related to mind? They are! And because of this they can experience 3 types of sensations that body/mind can.
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