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Re: [delmarvastargazers] Orion XT10

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  • S. Kent Blackwell
    I d like to add, I ve used many Dobsonian telescopes with DSCs in the past and have found none of the telescopes axis to be parallel to each other good enough
    Message 1 of 17 , Sep 14, 2004
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      I'd like to add, I've used many Dobsonian telescopes with DSCs in the past and have found none of the telescopes axis to be parallel to each other good enough to warrant "seeing" a difference of a WARP factor of 0 or a WARP factory of .5 or even higher. Yea, I keep trying to get a better factor too just for the hell of it, but in the real world, dear folks, I really don't think it matters. My 16" Dob, 25" Dob and 10" Dob and countless other telescopes often put the sought after object in OR near the field of view but they are never as accurate as Meade or Celestron SCT or other instruments with more accurate mountings.
       
      What is the weather like up in DE & MD? It's horrible in Virginia Beach. Sunday and Monday were gorgeous days here but each night cloudy.
       
      Kent Blackwell
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:50 PM
      Subject: Re: [delmarvastargazers] Orion XT10

      Steve,

          Well, if I could spell, it would have been warp factor.  Let's say that I align on two objects, Mizar and Arcturus ( just examples). The system knows how far apart they should be.  So if I click align and I don't have the star right in the center, after I align on the second star, it will tell me how much I am off by. That's the warp factor.  You want it to be  between -0.5 and 0.5.   What's cool about the system is let's say I go to look at my first object, M13.  I can then tell the controller to align on a third object. Typically that will make the warp factor closer to zero, but sometimes when I'm really off, it gets whacked. So I shut the system down and start over. But this really takes no time to do and I'm getting pretty darn good at it.  Also, they make lighted reticles with crossbars to help you get the star right in the center.  There's also tricks about making the focus of the star really bad and having the star fill up the eyepiece, you can then get the star equally away from all edges.  The other thing is that you use a 10mm eyepiece when you are aligning in order to get better accuracy. I'm sure there's a formula for figuring out warp. I just don't know what it is.
      T.


      Steve Long wrote:


      "Teresa T. Young" wrote:
      >
      >
      >     I had a small amoung of difficulty trying to get the wrap factor
      > down to 0.5 or below when aligning, but I have gotten the technique
      > down now.

      Teresa, can you explain what the "wrap" factor is, and how it affects
      using your scope?  I've never heard the term.


      Steve the Sheltered   :-)


    • Michael P. Borgia
      Overcast right now in DE and likely to remain that way until after Ivan and Jeanne are clear of the area. Michael P. Borgia ... From: S. Kent Blackwell To:
      Message 2 of 17 , Sep 14, 2004
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        Overcast right now in DE and likely to remain that way until after Ivan and Jeanne are clear of the area.
         
        Michael P. Borgia
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:49 PM
        Subject: Re: [delmarvastargazers] Orion XT10

        I'd like to add, I've used many Dobsonian telescopes with DSCs in the past and have found none of the telescopes axis to be parallel to each other good enough to warrant "seeing" a difference of a WARP factor of 0 or a WARP factory of .5 or even higher. Yea, I keep trying to get a better factor too just for the hell of it, but in the real world, dear folks, I really don't think it matters. My 16" Dob, 25" Dob and 10" Dob and countless other telescopes often put the sought after object in OR near the field of view but they are never as accurate as Meade or Celestron SCT or other instruments with more accurate mountings.
         
        What is the weather like up in DE & MD? It's horrible in Virginia Beach. Sunday and Monday were gorgeous days here but each night cloudy.
         
        Kent Blackwell
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 9:50 PM
        Subject: Re: [delmarvastargazers] Orion XT10

        Steve,

            Well, if I could spell, it would have been warp factor.  Let's say that I align on two objects, Mizar and Arcturus ( just examples). The system knows how far apart they should be.  So if I click align and I don't have the star right in the center, after I align on the second star, it will tell me how much I am off by. That's the warp factor.  You want it to be  between -0.5 and 0.5.   What's cool about the system is let's say I go to look at my first object, M13.  I can then tell the controller to align on a third object. Typically that will make the warp factor closer to zero, but sometimes when I'm really off, it gets whacked. So I shut the system down and start over. But this really takes no time to do and I'm getting pretty darn good at it.  Also, they make lighted reticles with crossbars to help you get the star right in the center.  There's also tricks about making the focus of the star really bad and having the star fill up the eyepiece, you can then get the star equally away from all edges.  The other thing is that you use a 10mm eyepiece when you are aligning in order to get better accuracy. I'm sure there's a formula for figuring out warp. I just don't know what it is.
        T.


        Steve Long wrote:


        "Teresa T. Young" wrote:
        >
        >
        >     I had a small amoung of difficulty trying to get the wrap factor
        > down to 0.5 or below when aligning, but I have gotten the technique
        > down now.

        Teresa, can you explain what the "wrap" factor is, and how it affects
        using your scope?  I've never heard the term.


        Steve the Sheltered   :-)



      • Tim Milligan
        Hey Gang, I m thinking abut moving to the Moon. I heard the weather pretty good there. Clear Skies and no mosquitoes. Tim =============================== Tim
        Message 3 of 17 , Sep 15, 2004
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          Hey Gang,
           
          I'm thinking abut moving to the Moon.  I heard the weather pretty good there.  Clear Skies and no mosquitoes.
           
          Tim

          ===============================
          Tim Milligan
          ABE, Web Server Product Manager
          Integral Systems Inc.

          voice: 301-731-4233 x1266
          mailto:milligan@...
          ===============================

        • S. Kent Blackwell
          Hello, all. I m really sorry to say I have decided not to attend the No-Frills. It s the first one I have ever missed. The trek is such a long way to drive
          Message 4 of 17 , Sep 15, 2004
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            Hello, all. I'm really sorry to say I have decided not to attend the No-Frills. It's the first one I have ever missed. The trek is  such a long way to drive for me. To exacerbate it even more I am on a 2-week jury duty notice. I have to call each day to determine if my presence is required. Another concern is if the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel closes to trucks with trailers on Sunday because of high winds, which happens quite often.
             
            Please pass along this information to Don and all the others. I've looked forward to the party for months. Maybe next time. I hope you have a great party. If I lived closer I'd be there regardless of weather.
             
            Kent Blackwell
            Virginia Beach, VA
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 9:23 AM
            Subject: [delmarvastargazers] Observing and Good Weather

            Hey Gang,
             
            I'm thinking abut moving to the Moon.  I heard the weather pretty good there.  Clear Skies and no mosquitoes.
             
            Tim

            ===============================
            Tim Milligan
            ABE, Web Server Product Manager
            Integral Systems Inc.

            voice: 301-731-4233 x1266
            mailto:milligan@...
            ===============================


          • Steve Long
            ... Kent, what units is warp factor measured in? Degrees? Arc-minutes? ... Currently raining 15 miles from Tuckahoe. :-( Steve
            Message 5 of 17 , Sep 15, 2004
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              > "S. Kent Blackwell" wrote:
              >
              > I'd like to add, I've used many Dobsonian telescopes with DSCs in
              > the past and have found none of the telescopes axis to be parallel
              > to each other good enough to warrant "seeing" a difference of a WARP
              > factor of 0 or a WARP factory of .5 or even higher. Yea, I keep
              > trying to get a better factor too just for the hell of it, but in
              > the real world, dear folks, I really don't think it matters.


              Kent, what units is "warp factor" measured in? Degrees? Arc-minutes?


              >
              > What is the weather like up in DE & MD? It's horrible in Virginia
              > Beach. Sunday and Monday were gorgeous days here but each night
              > cloudy.
              >

              Currently raining 15 miles from Tuckahoe. :-(


              Steve
            • Steve Long
              ... T, I still wouldn t have known what it was, even if you d typed warp . It sounds like something Kirk or Picard would be talking about. Warp factor
              Message 6 of 17 , Sep 15, 2004
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                > "Teresa T. Young" wrote:
                >
                > Steve,
                >
                > Well, if I could spell, it would have been warp factor. Let's
                > say that I align on two objects, Mizar and Arcturus ( just
                > examples). The system knows how far apart they should be. So if I
                > click align and I don't have the star right in the center, after I
                > align on the second star, it will tell me how much I am off by.
                > That's the warp factor. You want it to be between -0.5 and 0.5.

                T, I still wouldn't have known what it was, even if you'd typed
                "warp". It sounds like something Kirk or Picard would be talking
                about. "Warp factor three, Mr. Chekov. Come to heading 242 mark 17.
                Shields up!" :-)

                Obviously the alignment chips want you to center the alignment objects
                in your field of view. I'm delighted that you don't have to begin
                with Polaris -- my eyes aren't good enough to find that particular
                star until well after sunset.

                I think a double crosshair eyepiece and a slightly out-of-focus star
                image would probably make that alignment more precise for you.

                I'm still thinking about getting an XT10 or 12.


                Steve
              • Steve Long
                ... And the nights are two weeks long -- but you have to deal with that pesky blue planet that hogs so much of the sky. Steve
                Message 7 of 17 , Sep 15, 2004
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                  > Tim Milligan wrote:
                  >
                  > Hey Gang,
                  >
                  > I'm thinking abut moving to the Moon. I heard the weather pretty
                  > good there. Clear Skies and no mosquitoes.
                  >

                  And the nights are two weeks long -- but you have to deal with that
                  pesky blue planet that hogs so much of the sky.

                  Steve
                • David M Groski
                  Having built a couple of DSC from scratch ( ask Don Surles about using one based a Commodore 64 computer that I built), the Warp Factor is usually measured in
                  Message 8 of 17 , Sep 15, 2004
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                    Having built a couple of DSC from scratch ( ask Don Surles about using one
                    based a Commodore 64 computer that I built), the Warp Factor is usually
                    measured in units of encoder counts. The common system of today use
                    encoders with 4096 counts per 360 degrees of rotation. Many factors effect
                    the alignment of a DSC system but usually the largest are not having the
                    axes of the mount exactly 90.00 degree to each other and not having the
                    optical axes exactly parallel to the mechanical axis of the tube. You want
                    alignment stars that are far apart in the sky. Polaris is also not a good
                    choice RA and DEC are changing rapidly with a small change in Alt/Az. The
                    same is true of a star near the Zenith were a small misalignment can make
                    for a large error the AZ reading.
                    A little precautions in alignment, these systems work very well. One can
                    go from viewing only a few objects in a evening to viewing many tens to
                    over a 100. One of my favorite things is to view the planets and bright
                    stars in the daytime and DSC make this easy using the Sun as alignment
                    star, twice. Ever see Saturn at high noon ?

                    - Dave



                    Steve Long
                    <longsteven@comca
                    st.net> To
                    delmarvastargazers@yahoogroups.com
                    09/15/2004 10:38 cc
                    AM
                    Subject
                    Re: [delmarvastargazers] Orion XT10
                    Please respond to
                    delmarvastargazer
                    s@yahoogroups.com









                    > "Teresa T. Young" wrote:
                    >
                    > Steve,
                    >
                    > Well, if I could spell, it would have been warp factor. Let's
                    > say that I align on two objects, Mizar and Arcturus ( just
                    > examples). The system knows how far apart they should be. So if I
                    > click align and I don't have the star right in the center, after I
                    > align on the second star, it will tell me how much I am off by.
                    > That's the warp factor. You want it to be between -0.5 and 0.5.

                    T, I still wouldn't have known what it was, even if you'd typed
                    "warp". It sounds like something Kirk or Picard would be talking
                    about. "Warp factor three, Mr. Chekov. Come to heading 242 mark 17.
                    Shields up!" :-)

                    Obviously the alignment chips want you to center the alignment objects
                    in your field of view. I'm delighted that you don't have to begin
                    with Polaris -- my eyes aren't good enough to find that particular
                    star until well after sunset.

                    I think a double crosshair eyepiece and a slightly out-of-focus star
                    image would probably make that alignment more precise for you.

                    I'm still thinking about getting an XT10 or 12.


                    Steve




                    Yahoo! Groups Links









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                  • S. Kent Blackwell
                    A real negative, in my opinion, of the Orion IntelliScope Object Locator is having it automatically power off after 15 minutes of non-use! I detest that
                    Message 9 of 17 , Sep 15, 2004
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                      A real negative, in my opinion, of the Orion IntelliScope Object Locator is
                      having it automatically power off after 15 minutes of non-use! I detest
                      that feature, and the technical people at Orion have told me EVERYONE has
                      complained about it. If I leave the scope alone for 15 minutes, say while
                      I'm running my mouth at a star party (shocking that I would do that, huh?)
                      it'll shut down and I'll have to realign on two stars again. A real pain,
                      believe me.

                      I've used all the DSCs out there folks, and I say the absolute most friendly
                      units without a doubt are still the tried and trusted old Tangent
                      Instruments devices sold under the names Tangent, Celestron, Lumicon and
                      etc. They are easier to read than LCDs and a real pleasure to use. That's my
                      humble opinion. The Orion is pretty to look at but hard to read with it's
                      mutli-colored buttons and definitely too bright, even at its lowest setting.
                      I made a cover to keep over mine while not in use.

                      Hey, BTW, the Virginia Beach police have many streets closed off because of
                      flooding after a huge rainfall an hour ago. But now the sky is deep blue and
                      100% clear. Damn, how can one ever predict the weather? I hope it's clear
                      for you all weekend.

                      Kent Blackwell
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Steve Long" <longsteven@...>
                      To: <delmarvastargazers@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 10:38 AM
                      Subject: Re: [delmarvastargazers] Orion XT10


                      >
                      >
                      > > "Teresa T. Young" wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Steve,
                      > >
                      > > Well, if I could spell, it would have been warp factor. Let's
                      > > say that I align on two objects, Mizar and Arcturus ( just
                      > > examples). The system knows how far apart they should be. So if I
                      > > click align and I don't have the star right in the center, after I
                      > > align on the second star, it will tell me how much I am off by.
                      > > That's the warp factor. You want it to be between -0.5 and 0.5.
                      >
                      > T, I still wouldn't have known what it was, even if you'd typed
                      > "warp". It sounds like something Kirk or Picard would be talking
                      > about. "Warp factor three, Mr. Chekov. Come to heading 242 mark 17.
                      > Shields up!" :-)
                      >
                      > Obviously the alignment chips want you to center the alignment objects
                      > in your field of view. I'm delighted that you don't have to begin
                      > with Polaris -- my eyes aren't good enough to find that particular
                      > star until well after sunset.
                      >
                      > I think a double crosshair eyepiece and a slightly out-of-focus star
                      > image would probably make that alignment more precise for you.
                      >
                      > I'm still thinking about getting an XT10 or 12.
                      >
                      >
                      > Steve
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • David M Groski
                      I agree with Ken that the older Tangent units are very good. What I like the most are the units that interface to a computer running one of a star chart
                      Message 10 of 17 , Sep 15, 2004
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                        I agree with Ken that the older Tangent units are very good. What I like
                        the most are the units that interface to a computer running one of a star
                        chart programs. I like Earth Center Universe the best. The computer display
                        showing the sky allows me to see all the objects I can view and pick stuff
                        that I wouldn't normally go for or even know was close to the object I was
                        viewing.

                        - Dave



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                        formally notified that any use, copying or distribution of this e-mail,
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                        or an acceptance of a contract offer. This e-mail does not constitute
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                        purposes or for transfers of data to third parties.

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