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RE: [delhimetro] MultimodalTransport Plan & updated metro lines

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  • Goel, Pushpinder
    Hi, Can anyone confirm me when will the metro start for Dilshad Garden and how will it be linked with Noida Ghaziabad and Delhi. Regards Pushpinder ... From:
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 13, 2007
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      Hi,

      Can anyone confirm me when will the metro start for Dilshad Garden and how will it be linked with Noida Ghaziabad and Delhi.



      Regards
      Pushpinder


      -----Original Message-----
      From: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:delhimetro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ashish Vashisht
      Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 9:22 PM
      To: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [delhimetro] MultimodalTransport Plan & updated metro lines



      Hello Corrina,

      > 2. DMRC confuses me: In December I downloaded a route version where
      > Line 2 went till Sushant Lok. In the plans currently available on the
      > DMRC site, Phase 2 only reaches the station of Ambedkar Colony in
      > South Delhi. Can anyone clarify my confusion?

      The DMRC map still goes up to Sushant Lok.
      http://www.delhimet <http://www.delhimetrorail.com/commuters/images/metro_map_big.jpg> rorail.com/commuters/images/metro_map_big.jpg

      I'm not sure if there is another map you are refering to.

      Regards,
      Ashish






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • vishal jain
      Hi, I don t think that metro is going to ghaziabad. There is no money paid to DMRC and no agreement is in place. In fact nothing is going on the ground too. As
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 14, 2007
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        Hi,

        I don't think that metro is going to ghaziabad. There
        is no money paid to DMRC and no agreement is in place.
        In fact nothing is going on the ground too. As far as
        NOIDA is concerned, it is surely reaching upto sector
        32 by 2009. From dilshad garden ( as per current plan
        ) one will have to go to main ISBT and from there to
        rajiv chowk station to get connected to noida.

        Regards

        Vishal
        --- "Goel, Pushpinder" <pgoel@...> wrote:

        > Hi,
        >
        > Can anyone confirm me when will the metro start for
        > Dilshad Garden and how will it be linked with Noida
        > Ghaziabad and Delhi.
        >
        >
        >
        > Regards
        > Pushpinder
      • Goel, Pushpinder
        But for now will the metro line end at Dilshad garden (sahibabad border) or goahead somewhere ? Are there any plans ? It takes about 20 minutes if we travel
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 19, 2007
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          But for now will the metro line end at Dilshad garden (sahibabad border) or goahead somewhere ? Are there any plans ?

          It takes about 20 minutes if we travel from Dilshad Garden to Noida by road by own car.

          According to the metro route -

          Dilshad Gdn to ISBT - then - ISBT to Rajiv Chownk - then - Rajiv chownk to Noida.

          Who would prefer such a long route ? Atleast I will not !

          I would like to know the general view of the metro members ..............................


          regards



          Pushpinder


          -----Original Message-----
          From: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:delhimetro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of vishal jain
          Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:54 AM
          To: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [delhimetro] MultimodalTransport Plan & updated metro lines



          Hi,

          I don't think that metro is going to ghaziabad. There
          is no money paid to DMRC and no agreement is in place.
          In fact nothing is going on the ground too. As far as
          NOIDA is concerned, it is surely reaching upto sector
          32 by 2009. From dilshad garden ( as per current plan
          ) one will have to go to main ISBT and from there to
          rajiv chowk station to get connected to noida.

          Regards

          Vishal
          --- "Goel, Pushpinder" < pgoel@timex. <mailto:pgoel%40timex.com> com> wrote:

          > Hi,
          >
          > Can anyone confirm me when will the metro start for
          > Dilshad Garden and how will it be linked with Noida
          > Ghaziabad and Delhi.
          >
          >
          >
          > Regards
          > Pushpinder






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Yashpal Mhaskar
          Absolutely correct. NO body would like to travel like that and also pay more ! Metro has not provided interconnectivity except at two places like ISBT and
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 21, 2007
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            Absolutely correct.
            NO body would like to travel like that and also pay more !

            Metro has not provided interconnectivity except at two places like ISBT and Rajiv Chowk.
            Even now how one will travel by mero from Inderlok to Moti Nagar?
            Direct distance between Inderlok and Moti Nagar by road is less than 4 Km. and by bus it takes only Rs 2/ , moreover in much less time than by travelling by metro via ISBT and Rajiv Chowk.

            If Metro provides interconnectivity at lot more stations it can still increase its ridership. Worse it has still not provided RTVs at many Metro stations.

            At least at one place I know it is a waste to provide a RTV route from Uttam Nagar East to Kapashera border via Dwarka Sec 9 Station. RTV can run from Sec 9 to Kapashera border instead of Uttam Nagar East Station because metro itself runs upto Sec. 9.




            el, Pushpinder" <pgoel@...> wrote:
            But for now will the metro line end at Dilshad garden (sahibabad border) or goahead somewhere ? Are there any plans ?

            It takes about 20 minutes if we travel from Dilshad Garden to Noida by road by own car.

            According to the metro route -

            Dilshad Gdn to ISBT - then - ISBT to Rajiv Chownk - then - Rajiv chownk to Noida.

            Who would prefer such a long route ? Atleast I will not !

            I would like to know the general view of the metro members ..............................


            regards



            Pushpinder


            -----Original Message-----
            From: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:delhimetro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of vishal jain
            Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:54 AM
            To: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [delhimetro] MultimodalTransport Plan & updated metro lines

            Hi,

            I don't think that metro is going to ghaziabad. There
            is no money paid to DMRC and no agreement is in place.
            In fact nothing is going on the ground too. As far as
            NOIDA is concerned, it is surely reaching upto sector
            32 by 2009. From dilshad garden ( as per current plan
            ) one will have to go to main ISBT and from there to
            rajiv chowk station to get connected to noida.

            Regards

            Vishal
            --- "Goel, Pushpinder" < pgoel@timex. <mailto:pgoel%40timex.com> com> wrote:

            > Hi,
            >
            > Can anyone confirm me when will the metro start for
            > Dilshad Garden and how will it be linked with Noida
            > Ghaziabad and Delhi.
            >
            >
            >
            > Regards
            > Pushpinder

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






            Yashpal Mhaskar


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          • indiansunite
            guys,the metro right now is very young and needs time to expand. For small distance its wiser to take an auto or something. You can t just expect it to provide
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 23, 2007
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              guys,the metro right now is very young and needs time to expand. For
              small distance its wiser to take an auto or something. You can't just
              expect it to provide connectivity to each and every goddamn place
              right now can you? But one indisputable fact is that the metro is good
              for long distance travel in the city. However I agree that having just
              2 intersections is not good.

              IU
            • shuk718
              I agree, DMRC does not seem to incorporate interconnectiovity of interchange facilities in its plan. For e.g a new line is being constructed near the inderlok
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 24, 2007
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                I agree, DMRC does not seem to incorporate interconnectiovity of
                interchange facilities in its plan. For e.g a new line is being
                constructed near the inderlok station. I dont know where this line is
                headed for but it seems to be a stand alone line. Being so close to
                inderlok, the line could have been connected to the existing line 1 @
                inderlok to permit movement of trains between lines. This would have
                facilitated the availibility of a real network. BUt DMRC keeps this is
                stand alone and then have it as a standard guage line. This insane
                obsession of DMRC (read Sreedhran) with Standard guage is difficult to
                understand. It is not very apealing if I have to change 3-4 trains
                before reaching a destination. Every changeover station adds atleast
                10 min to my commuting time. In a project that is costing more than
                10,000 crores, spending a few 100 crores (assuming it costs Rs. 110m
                cr. for eack km of line, and junction point lines wouldnt be more than
                a few 100 m) to have line intercoonectivity is not a big expenditure
                for an infrstructure projcet that is to last 150 years.

                It is the same story with the Badarpur line. This line could have
                easily branched off from line 2 @ Central Sec. but DMRC will build
                this as a stand alone line just because they want to introduce
                standadr guage here!!!
              • ancient ekant
                actually world over standard gauge is prevalent and in India broad (or long) gauge but metro should maintain single gauge and I definitely agree that more
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 26, 2007
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                  actually world over standard gauge is prevalent and in India broad (or long) gauge but metro should maintain single gauge and I definitely agree that more interconnectivity should be provided. I am not sure but I think they might be joining inderlok with moti nagar but howthey will achieveit I am not sure.

                  Having a ring metro should have solved the issue to quite an extent but the stations position is not (IMO) suited for ring metro.


                  shuk718 <shuk718@...> wrote: I agree, DMRC does not seem to incorporate interconnectiovity of
                  interchange facilities in its plan. For e.g a new line is being
                  constructed near the inderlok station. I dont know where this line is
                  headed for but it seems to be a stand alone line. Being so close to
                  inderlok, the line could have been connected to the existing line 1 @
                  inderlok to permit movement of trains between lines. This would have
                  facilitated the availibility of a real network. BUt DMRC keeps this is
                  stand alone and then have it as a standard guage line. This insane
                  obsession of DMRC (read Sreedhran) with Standard guage is difficult to
                  understand. It is not very apealing if I have to change 3-4 trains
                  before reaching a destination. Every changeover station adds atleast
                  10 min to my commuting time. In a project that is costing more than
                  10,000 crores, spending a few 100 crores (assuming it costs Rs. 110m
                  cr. for eack km of line, and junction point lines wouldnt be more than
                  a few 100 m) to have line intercoonectivity is not a big expenditure
                  for an infrstructure projcet that is to last 150 years.

                  It is the same story with the Badarpur line. This line could have
                  easily branched off from line 2 @ Central Sec. but DMRC will build
                  this as a stand alone line just because they want to introduce
                  standadr guage here!!!






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                • David Kothamasi
                  actually world over standard guage is prevalent.. . This is the arguement that is absolutely flawed but routinely flouted by DMRC and accepted by many. Europe
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 27, 2007
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                    "actually world over standard guage is prevalent..".

                    This is the arguement that is absolutely flawed but routinely flouted by DMRC and accepted by many. Europe has SG because this was the guage to which the first locomotives were built. And this guage was adopted from the then prevalent width of horse drawn coal wagons (4'8'') for whose haulage the first locomotives were built. Realizing the immense benefit of rail, 1000s of km of track were laid in europe to this guage in a very short period of time. Some rail companies found out the limitations of SG in stability @ high speeds and load bearing and shifted to wider guages. It was because of the apparent limitations of SG that most british rail companies opted for the more modern BG in several rail corridors in India. Europe adopted SG to allow for uniformity in operations beacuse as mentioned earlier 1000s of km of track were already laid to SG. The modern high speed trains that run on these lines today rely to a large extent on computers for stability @ high speeds.
                    Infact some countries like spain and Russia still use wider guages than SG. Interconnectivity (with rest of europe) here is achived by variable guage undercarriages. Guys, standard guage is neither superior nor more modern than BG and niether does it have any cost advantage. This is just propaganda by DMRC to have foreign companies working on the metro projects. It is difficult to justify their presence if they were to build a BG metro system even after the successful completion of phase I and the supposed adoption of all modern technology by Indian companies. Can any one say what the technical expertise of Taiwan is in Rail technology. But the high speed airport line contarct has supposedly been awarded to a taiwanese company.

                    Broad guage is the prevalent guage in India and it is apt that we try to have unifromity with a guage that is available at home rather than strive to have uniformity with a guage that is prevalent in the land of our former colonial masters. It will take some time for us to come out of a mindset that makes us feel that anything that the west has is somehow superior to what we have.


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                  • RAJEEV TIVARI - MPL
                    Hello To put it in short, In india it is indeed felonious to use any other gauge than broad gauge, notwithstanding any apparent advantages the former promise.
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 27, 2007
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                      Hello
                      To put it in short, In india it is indeed felonious to use any other gauge than broad gauge, notwithstanding any apparent advantages the former promise. On one hand we are going unigauge and on the other introducing a wholly foreign gauge. If DMRC is really interested in reducing capital costs, they should go for monorails, LRT.
                      Rajeev



                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:delhimetro@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of David Kothamasi
                      Sent: 28 March 2007 11:14
                      To: delhimetro@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [delhimetro] Re: Lack of interconnectivity and RTVs



                      "actually world over standard guage is prevalent..".

                      This is the arguement that is absolutely flawed but routinely flouted by DMRC and accepted by many. Europe has SG because this was the guage to which the first locomotives were built. And this guage was adopted from the then prevalent width of horse drawn coal wagons (4'8'') for whose haulage the first locomotives were built. Realizing the immense benefit of rail, 1000s of km of track were laid in europe to this guage in a very short period of time. Some rail companies found out the limitations of SG in stability @ high speeds and load bearing and shifted to wider guages. It was because of the apparent limitations of SG that most british rail companies opted for the more modern BG in several rail corridors in India. Europe adopted SG to allow for uniformity in operations beacuse as mentioned earlier 1000s of km of track were already laid to SG. The modern high speed trains that run on these lines today rely to a large extent on computers for stability @ high speeds.
                      Infact some countries like spain and Russia still use wider guages than SG. Interconnectivity (with rest of europe) here is achived by variable guage undercarriages. Guys, standard guage is neither superior nor more modern than BG and niether does it have any cost advantage. This is just propaganda by DMRC to have foreign companies working on the metro projects. It is difficult to justify their presence if they were to build a BG metro system even after the successful completion of phase I and the supposed adoption of all modern technology by Indian companies. Can any one say what the technical expertise of Taiwan is in Rail technology. But the high speed airport line contarct has supposedly been awarded to a taiwanese company.

                      Broad guage is the prevalent guage in India and it is apt that we try to have unifromity with a guage that is available at home rather than strive to have uniformity with a guage that is prevalent in the land of our former colonial masters. It will take some time for us to come out of a mindset that makes us feel that anything that the west has is somehow superior to what we have.

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                    • ancient ekant
                      I didnt said SG is better than BG. SG has many disadvantages but still it finds prevalance in many countries including us and japan. Even I prefer BG coz it
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 28, 2007
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                        I didnt said SG is better than BG. SG has many disadvantages but still it finds prevalance in many countries including us and japan. Even I prefer BG coz it helps to carry more people over the same area and also its centre of gravity position is far superior than SG. If you go into the history of gauge development it was proven beyond doubt that BG is better than SG (but ofcourse politics won).

                        But incase of metro I believe they have one major point in the favour of SG and that is it needs lesser area than BG (for tunneling and curves) for rest of the things BG is far superior we have IR running on it at quite a high speed (though unfortunately it is their signalling or some other logistic problem whic doesnt allow them to utilize such high speed and maintain a good average).
                        Also Metro ( I think I read somewhere) is using BG tracks but SG body if it is true then I believe they have wasted lots of public funds by wasting the tracks potentials.

                        DMRC management should be made accountable in an appropriate manner even when they get off board so that theydont live us with the burden of their wrong doings.

                        David Kothamasi <kothamasi@...> wrote: "actually world over standard guage is prevalent..".

                        This is the arguement that is absolutely flawed but routinely flouted by DMRC and accepted by many. Europe has SG because this was the guage to which the first locomotives were built. And this guage was adopted from the then prevalent width of horse drawn coal wagons (4'8'') for whose haulage the first locomotives were built. Realizing the immense benefit of rail, 1000s of km of track were laid in europe to this guage in a very short period of time. Some rail companies found out the limitations of SG in stability @ high speeds and load bearing and shifted to wider guages. It was because of the apparent limitations of SG that most british rail companies opted for the more modern BG in several rail corridors in India. Europe adopted SG to allow for uniformity in operations beacuse as mentioned earlier 1000s of km of track were already laid to SG. The modern high speed trains that run on these lines today rely to a large extent on computers for stability @ high speeds.
                        Infact some countries like spain and Russia still use wider guages than SG. Interconnectivity (with rest of europe) here is achived by variable guage undercarriages. Guys, standard guage is neither superior nor more modern than BG and niether does it have any cost advantage. This is just propaganda by DMRC to have foreign companies working on the metro projects. It is difficult to justify their presence if they were to build a BG metro system even after the successful completion of phase I and the supposed adoption of all modern technology by Indian companies. Can any one say what the technical expertise of Taiwan is in Rail technology. But the high speed airport line contarct has supposedly been awarded to a taiwanese company.

                        Broad guage is the prevalent guage in India and it is apt that we try to have unifromity with a guage that is available at home rather than strive to have uniformity with a guage that is prevalent in the land of our former colonial masters. It will take some time for us to come out of a mindset that makes us feel that anything that the west has is somehow superior to what we have.

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                      • David Kothamasi
                        ...But incase of metro I believe they have one major point in the favour of SG and that is it needs lesser area than BG (for tunneling and curves)...
                        Message 11 of 15 , Mar 29, 2007
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                          "...But incase of metro I believe they have one major point in the favour of SG and that is it needs lesser area than BG (for tunneling and curves)... "

                          Standard guage has no demonstrable cost advantage over broad guage when the dimensions of the cars are going to be the same. Please refer to my earlier post this week where I have provided a detailed write-up on this.





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                        • ancient.ekant
                          SG has lower curve requirement over BG (that is, turning radius of SG is lower than BG irrespective of the size of bogies). David your argument hold true only
                          Message 12 of 15 , Apr 4 1:40 AM
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                            SG has lower curve requirement over BG (that is, turning radius of SG
                            is lower than BG irrespective of the size of bogies).

                            David your argument hold true only for the size of tunnel and other
                            construction which are affected by the size of bogies. At the same
                            time I had say that these cost are not really the issue for such a
                            project what really is the issue is the viability and BG has much
                            better viability and ofcourse compatibility with broader network,
                            Indian Railways. Who knows maybe sometime in future we may require
                            compatibility between these networks so there is no harm in being
                            ready for that.

                            [ TGV has a curve (or track radii) of 7km instead of 3km keeping in
                            mind the future requirement cos higher radius allows train to run at
                            higher speed ]

                            --- In delhimetro@yahoogroups.com, David Kothamasi <kothamasi@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > "...But incase of metro I believe they have one major point in the
                            favour of SG and that is it needs lesser area than BG (for tunneling
                            and curves)... "
                            >
                            > Standard guage has no demonstrable cost advantage over broad guage
                            when the dimensions of the cars are going to be the same. Please refer
                            to my earlier post this week where I have provided a detailed write-up
                            on this.
                            >
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