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Re: cards

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  • henrik strömberg
    for swedish you get: spader (spa + derr): spades. A pick in swedish is spade (one spade , two spadar ). There is an expression, Jag får spader , which
    Message 1 of 4 , Aug 23 8:08 AM
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      for swedish you get:

      spader (spa + derr): spades. A pick in swedish is "spade" (one "spade", two "spadar"). There is an expression, "Jag får spader", which means "I'm going nuts" but translates literally as "I am getting spades", but I think the expression came after the cards (is there a card game where spades are really bad?).

      hjärter (yerr + terr): hearts. As in english, the same word for the human heart and the valentine heart. One "hjärta", two "hjärtan".

      ruter (roo + terr): diamonds. Means square, the geometric shape you get in a quilt or plaid textiles. A true square is called "kvadrat", a "ruta" is more informal (as long as it has four sides). One "ruta", two "rutor".

      klöver (cl + a + verr): clubs. Means clover, three leaf clover. same singular as plural.

      Only klöver is the same word in language as in the card name. all the other names of the cards have acquired the "-er" suffix (which is meaningless), probably so that they will rhyme. As a consequence, most swedes don't see the names as descriptive, they're just names.

      pronunciation: my tips aren't very good, since swedish vowels and english vowels aren't pronounced in the same way, they're more to give you an idea.




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    • Eli Bishop
      ... But people look at cards more than they talk about them - the changed connotations make sense if you think of them as independent attempts to describe the
      Message 2 of 4 , Aug 23 12:22 PM
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        --- In delany-list@yahoogroups.com, David Filippi <dfilippi@n...> wrote:
        >
        > Translation is such a tricky business. People (perhaps most recently
        > that Sting song on 'Ten Summoner's Tales') talk much about the
        > different connotations of the suits - diamonds meaning wealth, spades
        > representing labor, clubs being war or the warlike impulse; when I
        > hear that I always wonder how these connotations managed to shift so
        > much between Italian and English. Or are people fighting wars with
        > poison flowers now; like the avern fights in Gene Wolfe's 'Shadow of
        > the Torturer'?

        But people look at cards more than they talk about them - the changed
        connotations make sense if you think of them as independent attempts
        to describe the visual symbols, rather than "translations" from
        Italian or whatever. Also, the names *and* appearances of the suits
        have changed over time in different languages and versions of the
        deck. In many Tarot decks the equivalent to "diamonds" is called
        either pentacles or coins (with a specific connotation of wealth), and
        clubs or "wands" are wooden sticks which are sometimes still bearing
        buds/flowers. For more details I defer to someone who knows more
        about Tarot history than I do...
      • tennlt62000
        ... Just as an aside we could never get away with calling diamonds in the modern deck rhombuses! It just wouldn t work!!! (and that is technically what
        Message 3 of 4 , Aug 24 8:18 PM
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          --- In delany-list@yahoogroups.com, "Eli Bishop" <kibitz@g...> wrote:
          > --- In delany-list@yahoogroups.com, David Filippi <dfilippi@n...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Translation is such a tricky business. People (perhaps most recently
          > > that Sting song on 'Ten Summoner's Tales') talk much about the
          > > different connotations of the suits - diamonds meaning wealth, spades
          > > representing labor, clubs being war or the warlike impulse; when I
          > > hear that I always wonder how these connotations managed to shift so
          > > much between Italian and English. Or are people fighting wars with
          > > poison flowers now; like the avern fights in Gene Wolfe's 'Shadow of
          > > the Torturer'?
          >
          > But people look at cards more than they talk about them - the changed
          > connotations make sense if you think of them as independent attempts
          > to describe the visual symbols, rather than "translations" from
          > Italian or whatever. Also, the names *and* appearances of the suits
          > have changed over time in different languages and versions of the
          > deck. In many Tarot decks the equivalent to "diamonds" is called
          > either pentacles or coins (with a specific connotation of wealth), and
          > clubs or "wands" are wooden sticks which are sometimes still bearing
          > buds/flowers. For more details I defer to someone who knows more
          > about Tarot history than I do...

          Just as an "aside" we could never get away with calling "diamonds" in the modern deck "rhombuses!" It just wouldn't work!!! (and that is technically what they are--nothing whatsoever to do with gems, except in the mind of the interpreter!) They are "diamond" shaped, or rhombic, equal sided, non-square two-dimensional polygons, with opposite angles equal.
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