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Re: [dejavu-l] Code content }{

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  • Marco
    ... I have had this several times, and I found a miracle cure: Open the file in OpenOffice and there save it as Word document. It removes all the junk.
    Message 1 of 24 , Apr 1 12:13 AM
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      Amy Taylor schrieb:

      >I've got a document absolutely littered with codes in the middles of
      >words, and shift f6 reveals }{ as the code content. I saved as .rtf but
      >that had no effect. Can I safely delete these (seemingly) content-less
      >codes?
      >
      >
      >
      I have had this several times, and I found a miracle cure:
      Open the file in OpenOffice and there save it as Word document.
      It removes all the junk.
    • Rob Laumen
      And hidden text. Rob ... - Verzonden: donderdag 1 april 2004, 10:13 - Van: marco.amans@wanadoo.fr - Aan: dejavu-l@yahoogroups.com -
      Message 2 of 24 , Apr 1 12:20 AM
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        And hidden text.

        Rob

        ------------------ Oorspronkelijk bericht ----------------------------
        - Verzonden: donderdag 1 april 2004, 10:13
        - Van: marco.amans@...
        - Aan: dejavu-l@yahoogroups.com
        - Onderwerp: [dejavu-l] Code content }{
        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        > I have had this several times, and I found a miracle cure:
        > Open the file in OpenOffice and there save it as Word document.
        > It removes all the junk.

        ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      • Victor Dewsbery
        Translating a contract from English to German. In English, the sections of the contract are referred to as: Article 1 Article 2 Article 3 ... etc. In German,
        Message 3 of 24 , Apr 2 12:27 AM
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          Translating a contract from English to German.

          In English, the sections of the contract are referred to as:
          Article 1
          Article 2
          Article 3 ... etc.

          In German, I want these as
          ? 1
          ? 2
          ? 3 ... etc.

          I had done my first "Pretranslate" before I realised the problem (so they
          were all marked as exact matches with the German "Artikel 1 etc.").
          Then I entered "Article = ?" in the lexicon.
          Individual sentences assemble correctly as ? 4 etc. with CTRL-A (so
          somewhere deep inside its little heart, DVX knows that ? is a character of
          some sort.
          But Pretranslate with "overwrite exact rows" gives me "Artikel 4" etc. every
          time, although the "Sentences found" window shows both versions.

          OK, I thought, I'll autopropagate the little rotters.

          Selected exact rows and cleared all translations.
          Arranged alphabetically, so now I had all those "Articles" sitting one after
          the other ready to be autopropagated.
          Selected the first one, assembled (CTRL-A) and CTRL-downed it.

          Autopropagation gave me a result sure enough.
          Article 4 = 4
          Article 5 = 5
          Article 6 = 6 ... etc.
          (with a space before each number, but without the ?).

          And of course, F9 (propagate to current file) and Alt-F9 do nothing to
          improve the picture.

          But then, life is full of surprises, isn't it?

          - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
          Victor Dewsbery, Berlin
          www.dewsbery.de
          - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
        • Victor Dewsbery
          Sorry, message went through with wrong coding (US-ASCII instead of Western European). The character that comes out as a question mark should have been the
          Message 4 of 24 , Apr 2 12:37 AM
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            Sorry, message went through with wrong coding
            (US-ASCII instead of Western European).

            The character that comes out as a question mark should have been the
            paragraph mark §. (Surprised that it is not included in US-ASCII).

            - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Victor Dewsbery, Berlin
            www.dewsbery.de
            - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Victor Dewsbery [mailto:translation@...]
            > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 10:28 AM
            > To: dejavu-l@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [dejavu-l] DVX lexicon and propagate problem with ?
            >
            >
            > Translating a contract from English to German.
            >
            > In English, the sections of the contract are referred to as:
            > Article 1
            > Article 2
            > Article 3 ... etc.
            >
            > In German, I want these as
            > ? 1
            > ? 2
            > ? 3 ... etc.
            >
            > I had done my first "Pretranslate" before I realised the problem (so they
            > were all marked as exact matches with the German "Artikel 1 etc.").
            > Then I entered "Article = ?" in the lexicon.
            > Individual sentences assemble correctly as ? 4 etc. with CTRL-A (so
            > somewhere deep inside its little heart, DVX knows that ? is a character of
            > some sort.
            > But Pretranslate with "overwrite exact rows" gives me "Artikel 4"
            > etc. every
            > time, although the "Sentences found" window shows both versions.
            >
            > OK, I thought, I'll autopropagate the little rotters.
            >
            > Selected exact rows and cleared all translations.
            > Arranged alphabetically, so now I had all those "Articles"
            > sitting one after
            > the other ready to be autopropagated.
            > Selected the first one, assembled (CTRL-A) and CTRL-downed it.
            >
            > Autopropagation gave me a result sure enough.
            > Article 4 = 4
            > Article 5 = 5
            > Article 6 = 6 ... etc.
            > (with a space before each number, but without the ?).
            >
            > And of course, F9 (propagate to current file) and Alt-F9 do nothing to
            > improve the picture.
            >
            > But then, life is full of surprises, isn't it?
            >
            > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            > Victor Dewsbery, Berlin
            > www.dewsbery.de
            > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Send messages for the list to dejavu-l@yahoogroups.com
            > Unsubscribe with a message to dejavu-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > Search the archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dejavu-l/messages
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Alison Penfold
            Er, Victor, you did remove the Artikel 1 etc. from the TDB/MDB/lexicon, did you? Otherwise it sounds like standard DV behaviour of preferring longer strings
            Message 5 of 24 , Apr 2 12:43 AM
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              Er, Victor, you did remove the "Artikel 1" etc. from the
              TDB/MDB/lexicon, did you? Otherwise it sounds like standard DV
              behaviour of preferring longer strings to shorter ones. Or isn't DVX
              supposed to do that any more?

              Alison Penfold


              -----Original Message-----
              From: Victor Dewsbery [mailto:translation@...]
              Sent: 02 April 2004 09:28
              To: dejavu-l@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [dejavu-l] DVX lexicon and propagate problem with ?


              Translating a contract from English to German.

              In English, the sections of the contract are referred to as: Article 1
              Article 2
              Article 3 ... etc.

              In German, I want these as
              ? 1
              ? 2
              ? 3 ... etc.

              I had done my first "Pretranslate" before I realised the problem (so
              they were all marked as exact matches with the German "Artikel 1 etc.").
              Then I entered "Article = ?" in the lexicon. Individual sentences
              assemble correctly as ? 4 etc. with CTRL-A (so somewhere deep inside its
              little heart, DVX knows that ? is a character of some sort. But
              Pretranslate with "overwrite exact rows" gives me "Artikel 4" etc. every
              time, although the "Sentences found" window shows both versions.

              OK, I thought, I'll autopropagate the little rotters.

              Selected exact rows and cleared all translations.
              Arranged alphabetically, so now I had all those "Articles" sitting one
              after the other ready to be autopropagated. Selected the first one,
              assembled (CTRL-A) and CTRL-downed it.

              Autopropagation gave me a result sure enough.
              Article 4 = 4
              Article 5 = 5
              Article 6 = 6 ... etc.
              (with a space before each number, but without the ?).

              And of course, F9 (propagate to current file) and Alt-F9 do nothing to
              improve the picture.

              But then, life is full of surprises, isn't it?

              - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
              Victor Dewsbery, Berlin
              www.dewsbery.de
              - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            • Victor Dewsbery
              Hi Alison, ... Err ... no. (Still waiting for that workless fortnight in which a sudden irresistible urge to dive into the unfathomable depths of SQL in DVX
              Message 6 of 24 , Apr 2 2:43 AM
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                Hi Alison,

                > Er, Victor, you did remove the "Artikel 1" etc. from the
                > TDB/MDB/lexicon, did you?

                Err ... no.
                (Still waiting for that workless fortnight in which a sudden irresistible
                urge to dive into the unfathomable depths of SQL in DVX and tie up all the
                loose ends in 160,000 MDB entries comes over me).

                > Otherwise it sounds like standard DV behaviour
                > of preferring longer strings to shorter ones.
                > Or isn't DVX supposed to do that any more?

                Not sure about the "supposed to" bit, but the GIVE-ME-THE-LONGER-STRING
                knee-jerk is still there in DVX (which even prefers a VERY VERY VERY FUZZY
                longer MDB/TDB match over an exact lexicon match).

                OK, now I know why "Pretranslate" didn't work.
                But why didn't "§ 4" etc. autopropagate?

                I won't complain too loudly, though, otherwise Atril's list of things to do
                before the next release will get longer and longer and longer (and we will
                never ever get to see build 239).

                - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                Victor Dewsbery, Berlin
                www.dewsbery.de
                - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
              • Marco
                ... As far as I could understand, DVX only indexes segments on alphabetical characters. In your example, there is no alphabetical character in the target. I
                Message 7 of 24 , Apr 2 8:41 AM
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                  Victor Dewsbery schrieb:

                  >OK, now I know why "Pretranslate" didn't work.
                  >But why didn't "§ 4" etc. autopropagate?
                  >
                  >
                  As far as I could understand, DVX only indexes segments on alphabetical
                  characters.
                  In your example, there is no alphabetical character in the target. I
                  guess this is why, propagation doesn't work as you expected.
                • Amy Taylor
                  ... Thanks Marco. I haven t downloaded OpenOffice yet, only because I ve been busy and it s one of those I-really-should-check-this-out items that I ve been
                  Message 8 of 24 , Apr 2 9:54 AM
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                    On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 10:13:14 +0200, Marco <marco.amans@...> wrote:

                    > Amy Taylor schrieb:
                    >
                    >> I've got a document absolutely littered with codes in the middles of
                    >> words, and shift f6 reveals }{ as the code content. I saved as .rtf but
                    >> that had no effect. Can I safely delete these (seemingly) content-less
                    >> codes?
                    >>
                    >>
                    > I have had this several times, and I found a miracle cure:
                    > Open the file in OpenOffice and there save it as Word document.
                    > It removes all the junk.

                    Thanks Marco. I haven't downloaded OpenOffice yet, only because I've been
                    busy and it's one of those I-really-should-check-this-out items that I've
                    been putting off. I suppose this weekend I should clean up my HD and
                    install the suite. Especially if it cleans up files like you indicate.
                    Thanks!

                    Big thanks also to Victor for an option I can try with my current sf. I
                    plan to give a whirl today and see what magic it bestows.

                    Isn't it funny that problems with Word can only be solved with other (or
                    at least older) software? My mother in law keeps thinking she ought to
                    upgrade from Windows95, but I think it's probably saving her from viruses
                    galore and tell her to sit tight. :-)

                    Amy
                  • Roy Oestensen
                    Greetings to all, We have recently purchased Trados 6.5, partly because of pressure from a client. To import files from them into DVX I run a pretranslate in
                    Message 9 of 24 , Apr 15 11:23 PM
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                      Greetings to all,

                      We have recently purchased Trados 6.5, partly because of pressure from a
                      client. To import files from them into DVX I run a pretranslate in
                      Workbench with the following settings active:
                      Segment also unknown sentences
                      Don't update changed translations
                      Don't translate terms
                      and 100% or higher match value

                      When I import the file, all targets are full, where the source in most
                      cases have been copied into target. This is a nuiscance, and I have not
                      found out if this is by design (Trados wanting it to be more awkward to
                      import the files into DV?)

                      A roundabout solution I've found is to choose "All unpainted pairs" in DVX
                      and just clear all translations, but I would prefer the file to be as clean
                      as possible when I import it into DVX.

                      Anyone who knows a solution here?

                      Roy
                    • Bjoern Krueger
                      Roy: Simply deactivate the option Copy source on no match (TWB Translation Memory Options General) and re-import the files. Hth, bjoern
                      Message 10 of 24 , Apr 15 11:39 PM
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                        Roy:

                        Simply deactivate the option "Copy source on no match"
                        (TWB > Translation Memory Options > General) and
                        re-import the files.

                        Hth,
                        bjoern
                      • Bjoern Krueger
                        ... Err ... it seems I m wrong. This setting has no effect on batch translation (pre-segmentation). Sorry for pointing you in the wrong direction, Roy! bjoern
                        Message 11 of 24 , Apr 15 11:47 PM
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                          I wrote:

                          > Simply deactivate the option "Copy source on
                          > no match"
                          > (TWB > Translation Memory Options > General) and
                          > re-import the files.

                          Err ... it seems I'm wrong. This setting has no effect
                          on batch translation (pre-segmentation).

                          Sorry for pointing you in the wrong direction, Roy!

                          bjoern
                        • Roy Oestensen
                          Thanks for trying to help. I checked, and it was not activated, so there must be something else. Roy ... roy.ostensen@samtext.com SAMTEXT NORWAY AS
                          Message 12 of 24 , Apr 16 12:44 AM
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                            Thanks for trying to help.
                            I checked, and it was not activated, so there must be something else.

                            Roy

                            At 16.04.2004 08:47, you wrote:
                            >I wrote:
                            >
                            > > Simply deactivate the option "Copy source on
                            > > no match"
                            > > (TWB > Translation Memory Options > General) and
                            > > re-import the files.
                            >
                            >Err ... it seems I'm wrong. This setting has no effect
                            >on batch translation (pre-segmentation).
                            >
                            >Sorry for pointing you in the wrong direction, Roy!
                            >
                            >bjoern
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >Send messages for the list to dejavu-l@yahoogroups.com
                            >Unsubscribe with a message to dejavu-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >Search the archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dejavu-l/messages
                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            roy.ostensen@...

                            SAMTEXT NORWAY AS
                            Møllergaten 9
                            NO-0179 Oslo, Norway
                            Tlf. +47 22 33 26 90
                            Faks +47 22 33 26 93
                            www.samtext.com
                          • Klas Törnquist
                            ... AFAIK this only applies to presegmented ttx files and it is probably by (DVX) design. It doesn t apply to doc/rtf files. In both cases I think DVX needs
                            Message 13 of 24 , Apr 16 12:59 AM
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                              Roy Oestensen wrote:

                              >Greetings to all,
                              >
                              >We have recently purchased Trados 6.5, partly because of pressure from a
                              >client. To import files from them into DVX I run a pretranslate in
                              >Workbench with the following settings active:
                              >Segment also unknown sentences
                              >Don't update changed translations
                              >Don't translate terms
                              >and 100% or higher match value
                              >
                              >When I import the file, all targets are full, where the source in most
                              >cases have been copied into target. This is a nuiscance, and I have not
                              >found out if this is by design (Trados wanting it to be more awkward to
                              >import the files into DV?)
                              >
                              >
                              AFAIK this only applies to presegmented ttx files and it is probably by
                              (DVX) design. It doesn't apply to doc/rtf files.
                              In both cases I think DVX needs source text (or pretranslated text) in
                              the target segments.
                              I don't see how DVX would be able to create Trados target segments
                              otherwise.

                              The workaround you describe below is the one I use myself. It's a quick
                              operation (especially as compared with doing jobs in TagEditor).

                              You should also not one other thing (IMO great improvement!) about ttx
                              files:
                              Ttx files will export even if there are differences in codes between
                              source and target.
                              This is very handy for files that are prematched by a client and where,
                              e.g. hard hyphens or hard spaces are used in the source language where
                              these are not required in target.
                              This is not the case for Trados doc/rtf files.

                              Klas

                              >A roundabout solution I've found is to choose "All unpainted pairs" in DVX
                              >and just clear all translations, but I would prefer the file to be as clean
                              >as possible when I import it into DVX.
                              >
                              >Anyone who knows a solution here?
                              >
                              >Roy
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >Send messages for the list to dejavu-l@yahoogroups.com
                              >Unsubscribe with a message to dejavu-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              >Search the archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dejavu-l/messages
                              >Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >

                              --
                              *****************************************************
                              * KT Translation AB *
                              * English/German into Swedish, 25 years' experience.*
                              * Automotive, computer software & hardware etc. *
                              * Workshop manuals, user manuals etc. *
                              * Aprikosvägen 17, S-633 47 Eskilstuna, Sweden *
                              * Phone +46 16 12 16 11, Fax +46 16 13 97 06 *
                              *****************************************************
                            • Hector D. Calabia
                              ... When the Trados match index is 0 (that is, there is a sign between original and target segments), DV (most versions at least, including DVX) does
                              Message 14 of 24 , Apr 16 1:10 AM
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                                Roy Oestensen, 08:23 16/04/2004:
                                >Greetings to all,
                                >
                                >We have recently purchased Trados 6.5, [...]
                                >>When I import the file, all targets are full, where the source in most
                                >cases have been copied into target. This is a nuiscance, and I have not
                                >found out if this is by design (Trados wanting it to be more awkward to
                                >import the files into DV?)

                                When the Trados "match index" is 0 (that is, there is a "<}0{>" sign
                                between original and target segments), DV (most versions at least,
                                including DVX) does not import (or at least does not show) the target
                                segments. I do not know what may be happening to you, but check that "match
                                number" between segments.


                                Hector D. Calabia
                                Translations into Spanish from English, Italian and Portuguese
                                http://www.proz.com/translator/6200
                              • Roy Oestensen
                                Sorry, I should have mentioned that the files in question are from Tag Editor, not Word. I, therefore, do not see any codes in the segmented files. Roy
                                Message 15 of 24 , Apr 16 1:46 AM
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                                  Sorry, I should have mentioned that the files in question are from Tag
                                  Editor, not Word.
                                  I, therefore, do not see any "<}0{>" codes in the segmented files.

                                  Roy

                                  At 16.04.2004 10:10, you wrote:
                                  >Roy Oestensen, 08:23 16/04/2004:
                                  > >Greetings to all,
                                  > >
                                  > >We have recently purchased Trados 6.5, [...]
                                  > >>When I import the file, all targets are full, where the source in most
                                  > >cases have been copied into target. This is a nuiscance, and I have not
                                  > >found out if this is by design (Trados wanting it to be more awkward to
                                  > >import the files into DV?)
                                  >
                                  >When the Trados "match index" is 0 (that is, there is a "<}0{>" sign
                                  >between original and target segments), DV (most versions at least,
                                  >including DVX) does not import (or at least does not show) the target
                                  >segments. I do not know what may be happening to you, but check that "match
                                  >number" between segments.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >Hector D. Calabia
                                  >Translations into Spanish from English, Italian and Portuguese
                                  >http://www.proz.com/translator/6200
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >Send messages for the list to dejavu-l@yahoogroups.com
                                  >Unsubscribe with a message to dejavu-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                  >Search the archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dejavu-l/messages
                                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  roy.ostensen@...

                                  SAMTEXT NORWAY AS
                                  Møllergaten 9
                                  NO-0179 Oslo, Norway
                                  Tlf. +47 22 33 26 90
                                  Faks +47 22 33 26 93
                                  www.samtext.com
                                • Roy Oestensen
                                  Greetings, ... Not DVX? In other instances DVX has imported (Word) files where the target has been empty, as far as I can remember. It, therefore should be
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Apr 16 1:56 AM
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                                    Greetings,

                                    At 16.04.2004 09:59, you wrote:
                                    > >We have recently purchased Trados 6.5, partly because of pressure from a
                                    > >client. To import files from them into DVX I run a pretranslate in
                                    > >Workbench
                                    > >
                                    > >When I import the file, all targets are full, where the source in most
                                    > >cases have been copied into target.
                                    > >
                                    >AFAIK this only applies to presegmented ttx files and it is probably by
                                    >(DVX) design.

                                    Not DVX? In other instances DVX has imported (Word) files where the target
                                    has been empty, as far as I can remember.
                                    It, therefore should be possible to create similar text from Tag Editor,
                                    and DVX would have no problems importing the text without source.

                                    >It doesn't apply to doc/rtf files.
                                    >In both cases I think DVX needs source text (or pretranslated text) in
                                    >the target segments.
                                    >I don't see how DVX would be able to create Trados target segments
                                    >otherwise.

                                    But doesn't it when this is a Word file? Incidentally, when I open the
                                    presegmented file in Tag Editor, also there the target is full, which your
                                    message would seem to imply it is not.
                                    It, therefore, seems to me to be a Tag Editor problem and not a DVX problem
                                    per see.

                                    Anyway, I can see that I will have to live with it then.

                                    >The workaround you describe below is the one I use myself. It's a quick
                                    >operation (especially as compared with doing jobs in TagEditor).
                                    >
                                    >You should also not one other thing (IMO great improvement!) about ttx
                                    >files:
                                    >Ttx files will export even if there are differences in codes between
                                    >source and target.

                                    To make sure there are none I have made it a habit running a Verify in Tag
                                    Editor before sending the translation to the customer.

                                    Roy

                                    >This is very handy for files that are prematched by a client and where,
                                    >e.g. hard hyphens or hard spaces are used in the source language where
                                    >these are not required in target.
                                    >This is not the case for Trados doc/rtf files.
                                    >
                                    >Klas
                                    >
                                    > >A roundabout solution I've found is to choose "All unpainted pairs" in DVX
                                    > >and just clear all translations, but I would prefer the file to be as clean
                                    > >as possible when I import it into DVX.
                                    > >
                                    > >Anyone who knows a solution here?
                                    > >
                                    > >Roy
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >Send messages for the list to dejavu-l@yahoogroups.com
                                    > >Unsubscribe with a message to dejavu-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    > >Search the archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dejavu-l/messages
                                    > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >--
                                    >*****************************************************
                                    >* KT Translation AB *
                                    >* English/German into Swedish, 25 years' experience.*
                                    >* Automotive, computer software & hardware etc. *
                                    >* Workshop manuals, user manuals etc. *
                                    >* Aprikosvägen 17, S-633 47 Eskilstuna, Sweden *
                                    >* Phone +46 16 12 16 11, Fax +46 16 13 97 06 *
                                    >*****************************************************
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Send messages for the list to dejavu-l@yahoogroups.com
                                    >Unsubscribe with a message to dejavu-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                    >Search the archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dejavu-l/messages
                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >

                                    roy.ostensen@...

                                    SAMTEXT NORWAY AS
                                    Møllergaten 9
                                    NO-0179 Oslo, Norway
                                    Tlf. +47 22 33 26 90
                                    Faks +47 22 33 26 93
                                    www.samtext.com
                                  • Klas Törnquist
                                    ... If you mean Trados segmented/pretranslated Word or rtf files, DV3 and DVX will show empty targets where there is source text in source and target in the
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Apr 16 4:33 AM
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                                      Roy Oestensen wrote:

                                      >Greetings,
                                      >
                                      >At 16.04.2004 09:59, you wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >>>We have recently purchased Trados 6.5, partly because of pressure from a
                                      >>>client. To import files from them into DVX I run a pretranslate in
                                      >>>Workbench
                                      >>>
                                      >>>When I import the file, all targets are full, where the source in most
                                      >>>cases have been copied into target.
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>AFAIK this only applies to presegmented ttx files and it is probably by
                                      >>(DVX) design.
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >Not DVX? In other instances DVX has imported (Word) files where the target
                                      >has been empty, as far as I can remember.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      If you mean Trados segmented/pretranslated Word or rtf files, DV3 and
                                      DVX will show empty targets where there is source text in source and
                                      target in the file.

                                      >It, therefore should be possible to create similar text from Tag Editor,
                                      >and DVX would have no problems importing the text without source.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      DVX handles presegmented ttx files differently than presegmented
                                      Word/rtf files.

                                      >
                                      >
                                      >>It doesn't apply to doc/rtf files.
                                      >>In both cases I think DVX needs source text (or pretranslated text) in
                                      >>the target segments.
                                      >>I don't see how DVX would be able to create Trados target segments
                                      >>otherwise.
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >But doesn't it when this is a Word file? Incidentally, when I open the
                                      >presegmented file in Tag Editor, also there the target is full, which your
                                      >message would seem to imply it is not.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      You have misunderstood my message.

                                      >It, therefore, seems to me to be a Tag Editor problem and not a DVX problem
                                      >per see.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      It's the way DVX handles ttx files. I don't see that as much of a problem.

                                      BTW, more than 90% of the work I do (previously in DV3, now in DVX) is
                                      delivered as uncleaned Trados files. It used to be mostly Trados
                                      Word/rtf files, but it seems that many clients now move to ttx files.
                                      Also, I suspect that the client requiring you to use Trados 6.5 may a
                                      client that I also work for.
                                      They know and accept that I process the files in DV.

                                      Klas
                                    • Jorge Gorín
                                      Hello Roy: I confirm what Héctor says, no problem for DVX if source segments are copied to the target by Trados when no match exists. DVX simply ignores them
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Apr 16 6:47 AM
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                                        Hello Roy:

                                        I confirm what Héctor says, no problem for DVX if source segments are copied
                                        to the target by Trados when no match exists. DVX simply ignores them on
                                        import. That is, if no matches at all are found by Trados during
                                        segmentation, you will have all empty targets after importing into DVX. The
                                        only targets containing text will be the ones already pretranslated by
                                        Trados.

                                        I think that this is so by design, as it should be.

                                        Jorge


                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "Hector D. Calabia" <hcalabia@...>
                                        To: <dejavu-l@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 5:10 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [dejavu-l] DVX: Need help with creating segmented Trados files


                                        > Roy Oestensen, 08:23 16/04/2004:
                                        > >Greetings to all,
                                        > >
                                        > >We have recently purchased Trados 6.5, [...]
                                        > >>When I import the file, all targets are full, where the source in most
                                        > >cases have been copied into target. This is a nuiscance, and I have not
                                        > >found out if this is by design (Trados wanting it to be more awkward to
                                        > >import the files into DV?)
                                        >
                                        > When the Trados "match index" is 0 (that is, there is a "<}0{>" sign
                                        > between original and target segments), DV (most versions at least,
                                        > including DVX) does not import (or at least does not show) the target
                                        > segments. I do not know what may be happening to you, but check that
                                        "match
                                        > number" between segments.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Hector D. Calabia
                                        > Translations into Spanish from English, Italian and Portuguese
                                        > http://www.proz.com/translator/6200
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Send messages for the list to dejavu-l@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Unsubscribe with a message to dejavu-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Search the archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dejavu-l/messages
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Klas Törnquist
                                        ... As I stated, I think that only applies to Word/rtf files. In ttx files, the target will show source text for any no match segments. Klas
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Apr 16 7:14 AM
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                                          Jorge Gorín wrote:

                                          >Hello Roy:
                                          >
                                          >I confirm what Héctor says, no problem for DVX if source segments are copied
                                          >to the target by Trados when no match exists. DVX simply ignores them on
                                          >import. That is, if no matches at all are found by Trados during
                                          >segmentation, you will have all empty targets after importing into DVX. The
                                          >only targets containing text will be the ones already pretranslated by
                                          >Trados.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          As I stated, I think that only applies to Word/rtf files. In ttx files,
                                          the target will show source text for any no match segments.

                                          Klas
                                        • Jorge Gorín
                                          Yes, but I learned that this was a ttx project after I sent my message . . .:-))) Jorge ... From: Klas Törnquist To:
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Apr 16 9:08 AM
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                                            Yes, but I learned that this was a ttx project after I sent my message . .
                                            .:-)))

                                            Jorge


                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: "Klas Törnquist" <klas.tornquist@...>
                                            To: <dejavu-l@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 11:14 AM
                                            Subject: Re: [dejavu-l] DVX: Need help with creating segmented Trados files


                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Jorge Gorín wrote:
                                            >
                                            > >Hello Roy:
                                            > >
                                            > >I confirm what Héctor says, no problem for DVX if source segments are
                                            copied
                                            > >to the target by Trados when no match exists. DVX simply ignores them on
                                            > >import. That is, if no matches at all are found by Trados during
                                            > >segmentation, you will have all empty targets after importing into DVX.
                                            The
                                            > >only targets containing text will be the ones already pretranslated by
                                            > >Trados.
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > As I stated, I think that only applies to Word/rtf files. In ttx files,
                                            > the target will show source text for any no match segments.
                                            >
                                            > Klas
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Send messages for the list to dejavu-l@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Unsubscribe with a message to dejavu-l-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Search the archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dejavu-l/messages
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • Roy Oestensen
                                            Greetings, Klas, ... Is this a DVX problem? If target is shown as a copy of source in Tag Editor, then I am not surprised if it also is shown in DVX. I feel,
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Apr 18 11:55 PM
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                                              Greetings, Klas,

                                              At 16.04.2004 13:33, you wrote:

                                              > >It, therefore should be possible to create similar text from Tag Editor,
                                              > >and DVX would have no problems importing the text without source.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >DVX handles presegmented ttx files differently than presegmented
                                              >Word/rtf files.

                                              Is this a DVX problem? If target is shown as a copy of source in Tag
                                              Editor, then I am not surprised if it also is shown in DVX. I feel, though,
                                              that there is a weakness in Trados if ttx-files have to have target shown
                                              to segment all unknown sentences. Anyway, the workabout works, but still
                                              I'm not totally happy.

                                              Incidentally, my boss seems to take the other tac: If something isn't quite
                                              the way he want it to be, it is automatically a DVX problem. I asked him to
                                              open the file in Tag Editor to check if it was, and as I thought, the same
                                              problem appeared there. In this instance there was some text that should be
                                              translated, but it was shown as red text in tags. I believe these tags are
                                              defined in an anciliary file. A nuiscance, though, because then I end up
                                              with constructions like:
                                              <tag> menu => <tag>-menyen Where <tag> for instance can be <Profile>

                                              >BTW, more than 90% of the work I do (previously in DV3, now in DVX) is
                                              >delivered as uncleaned Trados files. It used to be mostly Trados
                                              >Word/rtf files, but it seems that many clients now move to ttx files.
                                              >Also, I suspect that the client requiring you to use Trados 6.5 may a
                                              >client that I also work for.
                                              >They know and accept that I process the files in DV.

                                              I hope my boss will do the same in the long run. He believes that said
                                              customer will move to an online term database on the Internet, and feels
                                              that one then is forced to work in Trados. But would this not only mean
                                              that one does a pretranslate against that database, and otherwise still do
                                              all one's work in DV? Of course, I could have Multiterm open besides, but I
                                              would hate to leave DVX.

                                              Roy
                                            • Klas Törnquist
                                              Hi Roy, ... As I mentioned, ttx files ar shown differently than Trados Word/rtf files. The latter also have a copy of the source text in target (for no match
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Apr 19 12:16 AM
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                                                Hi Roy,

                                                Roy Oestensen wrote:

                                                >Greetings, Klas,
                                                >
                                                >At 16.04.2004 13:33, you wrote:
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >>>It, therefore should be possible to create similar text from Tag Editor,
                                                >>>and DVX would have no problems importing the text without source.
                                                >>>
                                                >>>
                                                >>>
                                                >>>
                                                >>DVX handles presegmented ttx files differently than presegmented
                                                >>Word/rtf files.
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >
                                                >Is this a DVX problem? If target is shown as a copy of source in Tag
                                                >Editor, then I am not surprised if it also is shown in DVX.
                                                >
                                                As I mentioned, ttx files ar shown differently than Trados Word/rtf
                                                files. The latter also have a copy of the source text in target (for no
                                                match segments), which shows in Word, but not in DV(X).

                                                >Incidentally, my boss seems to take the other tac: If something isn't quite
                                                >the way he want it to be, it is automatically a DVX problem.
                                                >
                                                It could also be a "Trond problem"! :-)

                                                >>BTW, more than 90% of the work I do (previously in DV3, now in DVX) is
                                                >>delivered as uncleaned Trados files. It used to be mostly Trados
                                                >>Word/rtf files, but it seems that many clients now move to ttx files.
                                                >>Also, I suspect that the client requiring you to use Trados 6.5 may a
                                                >>client that I also work for.
                                                >>They know and accept that I process the files in DV.
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >
                                                >I hope my boss will do the same in the long run. He believes that said
                                                >customer will move to an online term database on the Internet, and feels
                                                >that one then is forced to work in Trados. But would this not only mean
                                                >that one does a pretranslate against that database, and otherwise still do
                                                >all one's work in DV? Of course, I could have Multiterm open besides, but I
                                                >would hate to leave DVX.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                You can have Trados as well as Multiterm open when you translate in DV.

                                                Klas
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