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Seriously thinking about actually running DNW, and some questions...

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  • Lizard
    a)When is the DNW D20M conversion likely to appear? b)Do normal weapons cost anything other than money? If not, why would someone bother spending EPs for an
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 22, 2004
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      a)When is the DNW D20M conversion likely to appear?

      b)Do 'normal' weapons cost anything other than money? If not, why would
      someone bother spending EPs for an energy attack when they could just
      buy a gun?

      c)Are first-level characters viable, or should they begin at higher levels?

      d)Any good sources for power-design/new powers? My Hero background makes
      me leery of anything without a meta-power system.

      e)How compatible is DNW with 'standard' D20 material in actual play?
    • Palmer of the Turks
      ... No clue. ... Normal weapons cost only money. You can do a lot more damage with a high level energy attack than with a gun. Even a heavy sniper rifle only
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 22, 2004
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        On 22 Jan 2004, at 16:29, Lizard wrote:

        > a)When is the DNW D20M conversion likely to appear?

        No clue.

        > b)Do 'normal' weapons cost anything other than money?
        > If not, why would someone bother spending EPs for an
        > energy attack when they could just buy a gun?

        Normal weapons cost only money.
        You can do a lot more damage with a high level energy attack than with a gun.
        Even a heavy sniper rifle only does like 2d8 damage.
        Plus at higher levels, when you have PP to spare, they have more "ammo" and don't
        need reloading.
        Plus you can't be disarmed of your e-attack. Nor will it jam or malfunction. It's immune
        to Gremlinism.
        It's 100% concealable. It weighs nothing. It has an energy type, which can be useful.
        Energy attacks are reduced by DR. Bullets are reduced by BDR, which is always
        equal to or HIGHER than regular DR.

        Any more advantages needed?

        > c)Are first-level characters viable, or should they begin at higher levels?

        They are very viable, especially if you actually tailor their challenges to their level.
        Starting characters are meant to be viable in any game - otherwise they wouldn't be
        the starting power level.

        > d)Any good sources for power-design/new powers? My Hero
        > background makes me leery of anything without a meta-power system.

        DNW is not Champions, nor will it ever be. Champions has it's niche, and meta-powers
        are part of it. DNW has an extensive and detailed list of powers - why would you need
        more?
        If there's something you need that isn't covered by the rules, ask about it here. Several
        of us (especially me) will come up with ideas, and Scott himself may take it on and
        make an "official" power for it.
        But most everything can be covered by existing powers.

        > e)How compatible is DNW with 'standard' D20 material in actual play?

        Define "compatible".
        Compatible in what sense and what areas? Be more specific.

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      • Lizard
        ... (Deletia) ... No, but why wouldn t everyone carry a gun in addition to their powers? :) The thread about grenade-tossing speedsters is what got my mind
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 22, 2004
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          At 04:59 PM 1/22/2004, you wrote:
          >On 22 Jan 2004, at 16:29, Lizard wrote:
          >
          > > a)When is the DNW D20M conversion likely to appear?
          >
          >No clue.
          >
          > > b)Do 'normal' weapons cost anything other than money?
          > > If not, why would someone bother spending EPs for an
          > > energy attack when they could just buy a gun?

          (Deletia)


          >Any more advantages needed?

          No, but why wouldn't everyone carry a gun in addition to their powers? :)
          The thread about grenade-tossing speedsters is what got my mind working
          this way.

          > > c)Are first-level characters viable, or should they begin at higher levels?
          >
          >They are very viable, especially if you actually tailor their challenges
          >to their level.
          >Starting characters are meant to be viable in any game - otherwise they
          >wouldn't be
          >the starting power level.

          Tell that to Green Ronin. :) A PL1 character is, basically, a normal. I
          think you need to be PL 5 to even be considered a well rounded character.

          > > d)Any good sources for power-design/new powers? My Hero
          > > background makes me leery of anything without a meta-power system.
          >
          >
          >more?
          >If there's something you need that isn't covered by the rules, ask about
          >it here. Several
          >of us (especially me) will come up with ideas, and Scott himself may take
          >it on and
          >make an "official" power for it.
          >But most everything can be covered by existing powers.
          >

          OK, here's a few questions based on some pretty basic character concepts.
          I'm not trying to "break" the system or deliberately find things it can't
          do. If the answer is ludicrously self-evident, please feel free to append
          "you moron!" to your answers.

          Armor: Is there a power which grants an Armor or Deflection bonus to AC?

          Natural Damage Reduction: How do I build a character who can gain such
          powers at will, rather than having them be "always on"? (i.e, Stone Boy who
          can turn to stone, but can also turn back?)

          Other ways to Entangle someone: Webbing is pretty...specific. I want to be
          able to magically summon chains to surround someone, or turn the ground
          under their feet soft and then harden it again, or cause local plants to
          grow and entangle them. (As for the last, I did see Plant Mastery, but
          that's one example of many...I guarantee you, someone in my game ill want
          to "snare people with solid force" or any of a hundred other ways to say
          "You can't move!". I am thinking base the cost on Webbing, adjusting up or
          down based on how many other useful things you can do?)

          Powers gained through items which are not weapons or armor (what would be a
          'focus' limit in Champions or a 'device' limit in M&M), i.e, a dying alien
          gave me an iron gauntlet which allows me to fly, see in the dark, and talk
          to animals. (I'm thinking a Complication similair to Gestures would do for
          this and others...)

          Summonable Weapons:For example, forming a sword of pure energy which can be
          used a sword, taking advantage of any sowrd feats such as Weapon Focus,
          etc. (I'm thinking Natural Weapon, Retractable, for this, with the fact
          it's a "weapon" being mostly a special effect)

          Real stretching powers: The 14EP version of plasticity implies you have a
          maximum 'reach' of 15 feet. Typical 'stretchers' (Mr. Fantastic, Plastic
          Man) can usually reach a few hundred feet, even if this requires a load of
          hoo-hah about summoning extradimensionl mass or what-not.

          A few general questions:

          5 EP for infravision? That seems high to me, but I may be missing something.
          What can a level one Baseline Human Tech *do*? It seems he/she would need
          to take the Wealth feat in order to afford enough gadgets to actually have
          'powers'.

          > > e)How compatible is DNW with 'standard' D20 material in actual play?
          >
          >Define "compatible".
          >Compatible in what sense and what areas? Be more specific.

          I want to select a creature from the Monster Manual, note its CR, then make
          it a Mutant Adventurer and have the final Threat Rating be relatively close
          to making sense. I want to freely add in spells from other OGC sources. I
          want to have the heroes fight Orcus and have the fight be 'fair'.
        • David Marks
          I can t say much to most of your questions, but as I am currently playing a DNW character in an otherwise non-DNW campaign, I think I m pretty qualified with
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 22, 2004
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            I can't say much to most of your questions, but as I am currently playing a DNW character in an otherwise non-DNW campaign, I think I'm pretty qualified with how it meshes with standard d20.
             
            First of all, 1.1 is light years ahead of 1.0. Originally my character and my friend's character were both version 1.0. I'll admit both character abused the system, and we were vastly over-powered compared to everyone else. Since then, I've converted to 1.1 and my friend supposedly will do so as well. Abusing the system is much harder, and the character feels much more in-line power wise with where he should be.
             
            Secondly, as with any and all supplements, the more things you add, the more risk you run of creating a "Power Combo". This goes more strongly for DNW, perhaps, than most other things you could possible add into your game. Its not because DNW is grossly unbalanced ... its simply the vast amount of options which can often combine with other system abilities in strange and confusing ways.
             
            Third, Scott has said before the DNW classes are more powerful than, say, DnD 3e base classes. This is somewhat to account for the fact that DNW characters aren't meant to get the same magical items that DnD characters would get.
             
            ~david
          • Palmer of the Turks
            ... Some people do as backup. Some don t. It depends on character concept and beliefs, for starters. Or budget, even. For some characters, their powers are
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 22, 2004
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              On 22 Jan 2004, at 21:06, Lizard wrote:

              > >Any more advantages needed?
              >
              > No, but why wouldn't everyone carry a gun in addition to their powers? :)
              > The thread about grenade-tossing speedsters is what got my mind working
              > this way.

              Some people do as backup. Some don't.
              It depends on character concept and beliefs, for starters.
              Or budget, even. For some characters, their powers are enough and they don't need a
              gun. Look at Obi-Wan Kenobi, for instance. Or Batman (Batman owns everyone's
              asses).

              > > > c)Are first-level characters viable, or should they begin at higher levels?
              > >
              > >They are very viable, especially if you actually tailor their challenges
              > >to their level.
              > >Starting characters are meant to be viable in any game -
              > >otherwise they wouldn't be the starting power level.
              >
              > Tell that to Green Ronin. :) A PL1 character is, basically, a normal. I
              > think you need to be PL 5 to even be considered a well rounded character.

              DNW starting characters do start out stronger than straight D&D characters, that's for
              sure. But the fact is that ANYTHING is viable as long as the GM is reasonable.
              Normals can still be useful. If the group has a bunch of high-powered characters... and
              the only Rogue in the group is a PL1 normal - then that character has serious viability
              if they need any Rogue skills.

              > Armor: Is there a power which grants an Armor or Deflection bonus to AC?

              No, but it's easy to extrapolate Instinctive Dodging into Armor... I'd probably make it
              5EP for +2 AC, which is a bit more expensive than the standard 2EP for +1 AC, to
              compensate for the advantage of "always on" (as compared to "not flat footed" for
              dodge bonuses)

              > Natural Damage Reduction: How do I build a character who can gain such
              > powers at will, rather than having them be "always on"? (i.e, Stone Boy who
              > can turn to stone, but can also turn back?)

              Complication - Form Shifting if it takes time and/or PP to change.
              Otherwise I'd call it it a 1EP enhancement (for a PP cost) or 2EP (for free)

              > Other ways to Entangle someone: Webbing is pretty...specific. I want to be
              > able to magically summon chains to surround someone, or turn the ground
              > under their feet soft and then harden it again, or cause local plants to
              > grow and entangle them. (As for the last, I did see Plant Mastery, but
              > that's one example of many...I guarantee you, someone in my game ill want
              > to "snare people with solid force" or any of a hundred other ways to say
              > "You can't move!". I am thinking base the cost on Webbing, adjusting up or
              > down based on how many other useful things you can do?)

              How would Energy Field work for that?
              Earth Mastery will allow the mud effect I believe.

              > Powers gained through items which are not weapons or armor (what would be a
              > 'focus' limit in Champions or a 'device' limit in M&M), i.e, a dying alien
              > gave me an iron gauntlet which allows me to fly, see in the dark, and talk
              > to animals. (I'm thinking a Complication similair to Gestures would do for
              > this and others...)

              Make it an Extraordinary Item.

              > Summonable Weapons:For example, forming a sword of pure energy which can be
              > used a sword, taking advantage of any sowrd feats such as Weapon Focus,
              > etc. (I'm thinking Natural Weapon, Retractable, for this, with the fact
              > it's a "weapon" being mostly a special effect)

              Make it an Incredible Item with the Glamered trait.

              > Real stretching powers: The 14EP version of plasticity implies you have a
              > maximum 'reach' of 15 feet. Typical 'stretchers' (Mr. Fantastic, Plastic
              > Man) can usually reach a few hundred feet, even if this requires a load of
              > hoo-hah about summoning extradimensionl mass or what-not.
              >
              > A few general questions:
              >
              > 5 EP for infravision? That seems high to me, but I may be missing something.
              > What can a level one Baseline Human Tech *do*? It seems he/she would need
              > to take the Wealth feat in order to afford enough gadgets to actually have
              > 'powers'.

              Yes, they would need Wealth... or salvage.
              They can also perform any number of non-extraordinary mechanical acts as well,
              building mundane gadgets.
              Baseline techs can still take a tithe and use those EP to get a shitload of feats. The
              tech in my game started Level 1 with something like 14 feats (and 1 power,
              Gremlinism)

              > > > e)How compatible is DNW with 'standard' D20 material in actual play?
              > >
              > >Define "compatible".
              > >Compatible in what sense and what areas? Be more specific.
              >
              > I want to select a creature from the Monster Manual, note its CR, then make
              > it a Mutant Adventurer and have the final Threat Rating be relatively close
              > to making sense. I want to freely add in spells from other OGC sources. I
              > want to have the heroes fight Orcus and have the fight be 'fair'.

              Don't use the CR - use the Level Adjustment. Or you can get detailed and look at the
              bonuses and drawbacks of the creature and price out a "racial powers" package for it.

              Spells are directly on par - most of the spell lists are ripped straight from the SRD after
              all. The magic sections says to feel free to add new spells.

              Fights with Orcus are never fair :)
              I don't know squat about his stats, so I wouldn't know where to start. Best option IMO
              is to do some reverse engineering or playtesting to get a feel for his power level.

              If I could get his stats, I'd be willing to give it a stab. The biggest thing to look out for
              though, is that many DNW things can completely demolish traditional "power level
              rating"
              Mr. Invisible may only be Level 1 with a TR of 4... but if Angus McSkulKracken the
              Uber-Tank with 20 levels of Strongarm has no way of detecting the invisible, then the
              Lv 1 wimp trumps him.
              Super Speed can totally throw things off, granting extra attacks and mobility that
              makes many pin-maneuver tactics worthless.
              If the Tech builds a Helmet of +25 Will Save and gives it to the Psion... then Orcus has
              no chance in The Abyss, because the Psion will just use Mindlock Combat and render
              him helpless.

              The possibilities are endless, compared to D&D where they are clearly limited, and
              have nice even progression.
              2 DNW characters of the same class, level and TR can have vastly different ability.

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            • Lizard
              ... So, in short, it s down to roleplaying/character concept, not any mechanical reason. That s fine, I just wanted to be prepared for it. ... Just one point,
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 22, 2004
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                At 10:14 PM 1/22/2004, you wrote:
                >On 22 Jan 2004, at 21:06, Lizard wrote:
                >
                > > >Any more advantages needed?
                > >
                > > No, but why wouldn't everyone carry a gun in addition to their powers? :)
                > > The thread about grenade-tossing speedsters is what got my mind working
                > > this way.
                >
                >Some people do as backup. Some don't.
                >It depends on character concept and beliefs, for starters.
                >Or budget, even. For some characters, their powers are enough and they
                >don't need a
                >gun. Look at Obi-Wan Kenobi, for instance. Or Batman (Batman owns everyone's
                >asses).
                >

                So, in short, it's down to roleplaying/character concept, not any
                mechanical reason. That's fine, I just wanted to be prepared for it.

                > >
                > > Tell that to Green Ronin. :) A PL1 character is, basically, a normal. I
                > > think you need to be PL 5 to even be considered a well rounded character.
                >
                >DNW starting characters do start out stronger than straight D&D
                >characters, that's for
                >sure. But the fact is that ANYTHING is viable as long as the GM is reasonable.
                >Normals can still be useful. If the group has a bunch of high-powered
                >characters... and
                >the only Rogue in the group is a PL1 normal - then that character has
                >serious viability
                >if they need any Rogue skills.

                Just one point, "PL" is a Mutants&Masterminds term. The 'baseline' for
                starting characters in that game is 10th level for "tyical" superheroes,
                with 5th level being about the minimum for "street level" characters.

                I'll create a few sample characters and see how things work. I've begun
                making extensive notes towards new enhancements, complications, etc, which
                I will post to the group for comment when I have a bit more familiarity
                with the system.
              • Palmer of the Turks
                ... This is true... level up bonuses are not the only power increase you get in D&D. The 1 CR = 1 Class Level progression is dependent on the assumption that
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 22, 2004
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                  On 22 Jan 2004, at 23:37, David Marks wrote:

                  > Third, Scott has said before the DNW classes are
                  > more powerful than, say, DnD 3e base classes.
                  > This is somewhat to account for the fact that DNW
                  > characters aren't meant to get the same magical
                  > items that DnD characters would get.

                  This is true... level up bonuses are not the only power increase you get in D&D. The 1
                  CR = 1 Class Level progression is dependent on the assumption that characters will
                  gain and use a certain amount of wealth in the form of improved equipment and magic
                  items.

                  In DNW, by default the only improvements you get are level-up bonuses. As Scott said
                  somewhere, it's entirely possible that a Lv 15 Vigilante lives in a downtown squat and
                  subsists on $50 a week, whereas that's unheard of for a Lv 15 D&D character.

                  And the DNW classes ARE stronger - this is obvious from even a cursory glance.
                  Compare The Vigilante to The Fighter... they're intended to be "equivalent classes" in a
                  sense... you can even see the feat progression being mostly the same.

                  Power escalation gets worse in other classes. Look at the Mystic.

                  By the time they can cast Lv 3 spells, they're Lv 6.
                  They've had 6d12 (average that to 45) plus Int bonus x 6 (if it's less than +4, I'll laugh.
                  That's another 24) Power Points to play with... so about 70.

                  This will let the Mystic cast TWENTY THREE 6d6 fireballs a day. And they're gaining
                  about 10 PP per level past that. Compare that to ANY D&D sorcerer.

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                • Palmer of the Turks
                  ... Typical is defined by the GM and his setting, not by the mechanics. If you have weaker villains, then weaker heroes are viable. They can develop as new
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 22, 2004
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                    On 22 Jan 2004, at 22:22, Lizard wrote:

                    > Just one point, "PL" is a Mutants&Masterminds term. The 'baseline' for
                    > starting characters in that game is 10th level for "tyical" superheroes,
                    > with 5th level being about the minimum for "street level" characters.

                    Typical is defined by the GM and his setting, not by the mechanics.
                    If you have weaker villains, then weaker heroes are viable.
                    They can develop as new budding heroes into their full power.
                    Whereas with M&M it sounds more like they all start as "established" heroes.
                    This is another reason why traits like Reputation and Fame are hard to come by for
                    starting characters, but are easily accrued during play.

                    > I'll create a few sample characters and see how things work. I've begun
                    > making extensive notes towards new enhancements, complications,
                    > etc, which I will post to the group for comment when I have a bit more
                    > familiarity with the system.

                    I don't hold any "official" position with regards to DNW rules, but I do love answering
                    any rules question that may pop up, and seem to do a damn fine job of it thusfar.

                    Maybe Scott should hire me as his official Rules Guru or something *hint*

                    Let me see what you come up with and I'll chip in my comments.

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                  • orionkidder
                    ... just take an Active Force Field and describe it differently in-game. instead of invisible shield of force it s skin turns to stone. you don t get all
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 23, 2004
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                      --- In deedsnotwordsd20@yahoogroups.com, Lizard <lizard@m...> wrote:
                      > At 04:59 PM 1/22/2004, you wrote:

                      > Natural Damage Reduction: How do I build a character
                      > who can gain such
                      > powers at will, rather than having them be "always on"?
                      > (i.e, Stone Boy who
                      > can turn to stone, but can also turn back?)

                      just take an Active Force Field and describe it differently
                      in-game. instead of 'invisible shield of force' it's 'skin
                      turns to stone.' you don't get all the benefits of actual
                      stone natural DR, but short of taking the complication Form
                      Shifting (which would mean that *none* of your powers work
                      if the stone-skin isn't up) this replicates the effect you
                      want in every way, and is totally integrated into the system.
                    • Daiv
                      ... True. The flip side of it is, though, that any character than is unable to defeat a thug armed only with a gun needs to go back to the drawing board.
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 25, 2004
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                        On Thursday, January 22, 2004, at 10:14 PM, Palmer of the Turks wrote:

                        > On 22 Jan 2004, at 21:06, Lizard wrote:
                        >
                        >>> Any more advantages needed?
                        >>
                        >> No, but why wouldn't everyone carry a gun in addition to their
                        >> powers? :)
                        >> The thread about grenade-tossing speedsters is what got my mind
                        >> working
                        >> this way.
                        >
                        > Some people do as backup. Some don't.
                        > It depends on character concept and beliefs, for starters.

                        True. The flip side of it is, though, that any character than is
                        unable to defeat a thug armed only with a gun needs to go back to the
                        drawing board.
                        Seriously.
                        Take a first level Character. Put him in any alley with a mugger. Who
                        wins?
                        If its the mugger, then there better be a real good reason (a
                        staggering number of really bad rolls, for a start).
                        Just a thought, of course.


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                      • Orion
                        ... well, even a first-level character has, on average, more hit points than a mugger with a gun, probably a far better BA and initiative. so, basically, what
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 25, 2004
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                          At 05:14 PM 25/01/2004 -0800, you wrote:
                          > > Some people do as backup. Some don't.
                          > > It depends on character concept and beliefs, for starters.
                          >
                          > True. The flip side of it is, though, that any character than is
                          >unable to defeat a thug armed only with a gun needs to go back to the
                          >drawing board.
                          > Seriously.
                          > Take a first level Character. Put him in any alley with a mugger.
                          > Who
                          >wins?
                          > If its the mugger, then there better be a real good reason (a
                          >staggering number of really bad rolls, for a start).
                          > Just a thought, of course.

                          well, even a first-level character has, on average, more hit points than a
                          mugger with a gun, probably a far better BA and initiative. so, basically,
                          what happens is that even if the mugger shoots first, he probably misses
                          (did i mention the hero has a great AC, too?), and then hero moves in and
                          clocks him.

                          that said, guns should remain a genuine threat in the game. most heroes
                          aren't going to carry them (and my games are set in canada, so they're not
                          even allowed to!) but that doesn't mean that villains don't. they should be
                          an annoyance that heroes have to take care of before digging in and getting
                          the job done with fists and heat-vision.


                          -Orion
                        • Palmer of the Turks
                          ... My game is set in Vancouver... but the heroes are underground so to speak, and thus not really beholden to the law. (Think of them being underground as
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jan 25, 2004
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                            On 25 Jan 2004, at 19:43, Orion wrote:

                            > that said, guns should remain a genuine threat in the game.
                            > most heroes aren't going to carry them (and my games are
                            > set in canada, so they're not even allowed to!)

                            My game is set in Vancouver... but the heroes are "underground" so to speak, and
                            thus not really beholden to the law. (Think of them being "underground" as sort of like
                            the MIB. They're not publicly known, nor can they be. Only more self-directed and less
                            restrained)

                            Even then, 2 of the 4 characters use guns regularly.
                            One is the aforementioned Speedster, who has a guns n' explosives fetish.
                            The other is the Tech, for which guns make perfect sense to use. Especially when she
                            can jazz them up.

                            The catgirl mostly uses her claws, and the Vampire is a Martial Artist, who uses her
                            Flaming Burst gloves to dish out the pain. (The vampire mooks HATE the gloves).

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                          • Valgar Bloodflyte
                            Flaming Burst gloves to dish out the pain. (The vampire mooks HATE the gloves). Did you know Flaming Burst gloves get a -2 per die of damage while in
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jan 25, 2004
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                              Flaming Burst gloves to dish out the pain. (The vampire mooks HATE the gloves).
                              Did you know Flaming Burst gloves get a -2 per die of damage while in Vancouver, especially in Surrey... never been to a place that rained soo much. LOL!


                            • Palmer of the Turks
                              ... She waterproofs the gloves every time before she goes out. And it s not THAT wet over here... *looks out at the rain* Er... nevermind...
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jan 25, 2004
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                                On 25 Jan 2004, at 23:40, Valgar Bloodflyte wrote:

                                > Flaming Burst gloves to dish out the pain. (The vampire mooks HATE the gloves).
                                > Did you know Flaming Burst gloves get a -2 per die of damage
                                > while in Vancouver, especially in Surrey... never been to a place
                                > that rained soo much. LOL!

                                She waterproofs the gloves every time before she goes out.

                                And it's not THAT wet over here...

                                *looks out at the rain*

                                Er... nevermind...

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                              • Palmer of the Turks
                                Or anyone else into Chop Socky stuff. The Random Kung Fu Move Generator http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~pound/kungfu.html Updates every 15 mins with 500 new randomly
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jan 26, 2004
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                                  Or anyone else into Chop Socky stuff.

                                  The Random Kung Fu Move Generator

                                  http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~pound/kungfu.html

                                  Updates every 15 mins with 500 new randomly generated maneuvers.
                                  Reminded me of the table in DNW - maybe you can expand on that with this?

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                                • Orion
                                  ... don t listen to them. *we* know how great it is to live in a city that never gets below -10 (he said from edmonton where it s -40 with wind chill). -Orion
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jan 26, 2004
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                                    At 11:52 PM 25/01/2004 -0800, you wrote:
                                    > > Flaming Burst gloves to dish out the pain. (The vampire mooks HATE
                                    > the gloves).
                                    > > Did you know Flaming Burst gloves get a -2 per die of damage
                                    > > while in Vancouver, especially in Surrey... never been to a place
                                    > > that rained soo much. LOL!
                                    >
                                    >She waterproofs the gloves every time before she goes out.
                                    >
                                    >And it's not THAT wet over here...
                                    >
                                    >*looks out at the rain*
                                    >
                                    >Er... nevermind...

                                    don't listen to them. *we* know how great it is to live in a city that
                                    never gets below -10 (he said from edmonton where it's -40 with wind chill).


                                    -Orion
                                  • Palmer of the Turks
                                    ... I just thought of one (yes, ages later, but I did) The Armor Adept item Goo Gun (page 220) If you read SP as EP, then you have a workable Entangle power,
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Jan 30, 2004
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                                      On 22 Jan 2004, at 21:06, Lizard wrote:

                                      > Other ways to Entangle someone:

                                      I just thought of one (yes, ages later, but I did)

                                      The Armor Adept item "Goo Gun" (page 220)

                                      If you read SP as EP, then you have a workable Entangle power, or the basis of one at
                                      least.

                                      (Fact - SP and EP are balance-equal - this is a deliberate design factor)

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