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Re: [deedsnotwordsd20] Character Creation Question

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  • Patrick
    one way is to offer characters 16 ep s right off the bat, then have them start out at level 1. Remember that you can trade in 8ep s for a level. that would
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 11, 2003
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      one way is to offer characters 16 ep's right off the bat, then have them start out at level 1. Remember that you can trade in 8ep's for a level. that would allow a straight up human to be 3rd level, while those with powers will have a smaller or no tithe to worry about.

      This is what I've done :)

      Patrick~

      marsalpha wrote:
      I am having trouble with my DNW campaign. I am wanting to start the
      PC's off at higher then 1st level but the XP Tithe issue has came up.
      I want then to have the XP needed to be a certain level but have no
      idea how much XP they have put into their tithe...thus having more XP
      then needed to be a character of that level. How do I do this? I am
      not so much concerned about NPC's gaining levels right.

      When I do other games such as AD&D I start most characters off at 3rd
      level. If the character is playing something weird like Drow Elf,
      Fire Gensai and so forth the power of that character is balanced out
      with ECL's or "Effective Character Levels", which is charged to the
      levels.

      EXAMPLE: A player wants to play a Earth Gensai Fighter. 1 Level is
      used just to play a Gensai since they have and ECL of 1. The
      remaining 2 levels are used to be a fighter. End result is a 2nd
      Level Earth Gensai Fighter.

      Lastly the EP thing. Is it 2 EP for a Feat and 1 EP for 4 Skill
      Points? What else other then Powers and Advantages can you buy with
      EP's?

      Aries Omega




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    • cryptosnark
      Howdy, MarsAlpha/Aries Omega-- As indicated, 8 EPs = 1 class level. So if thinking in terms of ECLs helps you out, just think of 8 EPs as 1 ECL. That should
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 13, 2003
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        Howdy, MarsAlpha/Aries Omega--

        As indicated, 8 EPs = 1 class level. So if thinking in terms of
        ECLs helps you out, just think of 8 EPs as 1 ECL. That should
        get you started without trouble. ;)

        Cheers!

        SL
      • orionkidder
        I m very new with this system (and I realise I m about a month behind on answering this question, but I still wanted to put my ¢2 in), but I m in the exact
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 29, 2003
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          I'm very new with this system (and I realise I'm about a month behind
          on answering this question, but I still wanted to put my ¢2 in), but
          I'm in the exact same position as you are: running a one-shot game,
          want somewhat balanced characters, don't want to use 1st level
          characters.

          What I've decided to do is give them a set number of experience points
          that they can then use to 'buy' levels EPs (by reading the XP tithe
          table backwards).

          What I've done is give the players 15,000XP to spend. They can (and I
          imagine, will) use 10,000 of that to have 5th level characters, and
          then use the other 5,000 to 'buy' 16 EPs (which is the equivalent XP
          debt).

          I *think* I'm doing this entirely backwards from the way that Scott
          designed the whole thing, but this is our first DNW game, and in D&D
          games we've used the 'you have X number of experience points to spend'
          method. Since all the magic items have an XP price attached, it works
          out quite well to do things this way. Also, it's what we're used to.

          So, like I say, that's my ¢2.


          --- In deedsnotwordsd20@yahoogroups.com, "marsalpha" <MarsAlpha@y...>
          wrote:
          > I am having trouble with my DNW campaign. I am wanting to start the
          > PC's off at higher then 1st level but the XP Tithe issue has came
          up.
          > I want then to have the XP needed to be a certain level but have no
          > idea how much XP they have put into their tithe...thus having more
          XP
          > then needed to be a character of that level. How do I do this? I am
          > not so much concerned about NPC's gaining levels right.
          >
          > When I do other games such as AD&D I start most characters off at
          3rd
          > level. If the character is playing something weird like Drow Elf,
          > Fire Gensai and so forth the power of that character is balanced out
          > with ECL's or "Effective Character Levels", which is charged to the
          > levels.
          >
          > EXAMPLE: A player wants to play a Earth Gensai Fighter. 1 Level is
          > used just to play a Gensai since they have and ECL of 1. The
          > remaining 2 levels are used to be a fighter. End result is a 2nd
          > Level Earth Gensai Fighter.
          >
          > Lastly the EP thing. Is it 2 EP for a Feat and 1 EP for 4 Skill
          > Points? What else other then Powers and Advantages can you buy with
          > EP's?
          >
          > Aries Omega
        • Palmer of the Turks
          ... You are going about it completely backwards, to be honest. For game purposes, 8 EP = 1 character level. Look at GM s Option, Titheless Play on Page 344,
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 30, 2003
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            On 30 Nov 2003, at 7:35, orionkidder wrote:

            > I *think* I'm doing this entirely backwards from the way that Scott
            > designed the whole thing, but this is our first DNW game, and in D&D
            > games we've used the 'you have X number of experience points to spend'
            > method. Since all the magic items have an XP price attached, it works
            > out quite well to do things this way. Also, it's what we're used to.

            You are going about it completely backwards, to be honest.

            For game purposes, 8 EP = 1 character level.

            Look at GM's Option, Titheless Play on Page 344, Option 1: EP Assignment.

            This option has you assign a fixed number of EP to the players to spend as they wish.
            They can spend it on powers, or they can cash in 8 EP for one character level in any
            class they desire. So they can have a Lv 1 with lots of powers, or a Lv 6 with no
            powers at all, or any combination in between. This also makes everyone the same
            TR/CR/ECL, since your TR is considered Level plus (Uncompensated EP divided by 8
            round down)

            EP assignment is the single best option for one-off and titheless play, by a long shot.

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          • orionkidder
            ... Assignment. ... spend as they wish. ... character level in any ... Lv 6 with no ... everyone the same ... divided by 8 ... play, by a long shot. Thank you.
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 30, 2003
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              --- In deedsnotwordsd20@yahoogroups.com, "Palmer of the Turks"
              <palmer@s...> wrote:
              > On 30 Nov 2003, at 7:35, orionkidder wrote:

              > You are going about it completely backwards, to be honest.
              >
              > For game purposes, 8 EP = 1 character level.
              >
              > Look at GM's Option, Titheless Play on Page 344, Option 1: EP
              Assignment.
              >
              > This option has you assign a fixed number of EP to the players to
              spend as they wish.
              > They can spend it on powers, or they can cash in 8 EP for one
              character level in any
              > class they desire. So they can have a Lv 1 with lots of powers, or a
              Lv 6 with no
              > powers at all, or any combination in between. This also makes
              everyone the same
              > TR/CR/ECL, since your TR is considered Level plus (Uncompensated EP
              divided by 8
              > round down)
              >
              > EP assignment is the single best option for one-off and titheless
              play, by a long shot.

              Thank you. That's very helpful information. I can't believe I goofed
              and missed that passage in the book!

              I have one slight reservation, though. Shouldn't higher levels cost
              more? I'm still thinking from within the framework of XP, where first
              level is 1000, second is 3000, etc. By the same logic, 1st level
              should be 8EP, second 24, etc.

              Forgive me if this is a silly question, but I'm quite new to the
              system.
            • Palmer of the Turks
              ... Ahh... but look at how much the tithe goes up per 8 EP. 16 EP does not equal double the tithe of 8 EP, just like 2 extra levels cost more XP than one level
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 30, 2003
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                On 30 Nov 2003, at 18:01, orionkidder wrote:

                > > EP assignment is the single best option for one-off and titheless
                > play, by a long shot.
                >
                > Thank you. That's very helpful information. I can't believe I goofed
                > and missed that passage in the book!
                >
                > I have one slight reservation, though. Shouldn't higher levels cost
                > more? I'm still thinking from within the framework of XP, where first
                > level is 1000, second is 3000, etc. By the same logic, 1st level
                > should be 8EP, second 24, etc.
                >
                > Forgive me if this is a silly question, but I'm quite new to the
                > system.

                Ahh... but look at how much the tithe goes up per 8 EP.

                16 EP does not equal double the tithe of 8 EP, just like 2 extra levels cost more XP
                than one level doubled.

                Also, you should consider that while higher levels cost more and more EX per level,
                they actually aren't harder/longer to achieve than lower levels.

                Consider the XP awards chart in the DMG.
                For a Party level of 1 and an Encounter Level of 1, the reward is 300 XP.
                But Party level 2 and Encounter Level 2 is worth 600...
                And PL 3/EL 3 is 900. Etc.

                Then look at how much EX is needed for levels...
                1000 to gain the first level (reaching level 2)
                Then 2000 *more* (total 3000) for level 3, then 3000 more (total 6000) for Lv 4.

                Notice that according to the XP chart, an encounter of EL equal to the party level will
                always be worth 30% of the XP needed for the next level. So really, each successive
                level does *really* cost more to get in terms of encounters.
                Combine with the fact that the XP tithe associated with uncompensated EP goes up
                exponentially, not linearly, then a flat 8 EP per level works perfectly.

                Plus it fits the standard system the game already has defined - every 8 EP of
                uncompensated powers equals +1 Threat Rating/TR (aka Challenge Rating/CR).

                So being Lv 1 with 40 EP of powers makes you TR 6 (3 levels + 5x8 EP)

                But if you only buy 24 EP of powers, and spend 16 EP on levels, you'll be
                Level 3 + (3x8 EP powers) = TR 6.

                They match.


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              • orionkidder
                ... levels cost more XP ... more EX per level, ... 300 XP. ... 6000) for Lv 4. ... the party level will ... each successive ... uncompensated EP goes up ...
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 2, 2003
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                  --- In deedsnotwordsd20@yahoogroups.com, "Palmer of the Turks"
                  <palmer@s...> wrote:
                  > Ahh... but look at how much the tithe goes up per 8 EP.
                  >
                  > 16 EP does not equal double the tithe of 8 EP, just like 2 extra
                  levels cost more XP
                  > than one level doubled.
                  >
                  > Also, you should consider that while higher levels cost more and
                  more EX per level,
                  > they actually aren't harder/longer to achieve than lower levels.
                  >
                  > Consider the XP awards chart in the DMG.
                  > For a Party level of 1 and an Encounter Level of 1, the reward is
                  300 XP.
                  > But Party level 2 and Encounter Level 2 is worth 600...
                  > And PL 3/EL 3 is 900. Etc.
                  >
                  > Then look at how much EX is needed for levels...
                  > 1000 to gain the first level (reaching level 2)
                  > Then 2000 *more* (total 3000) for level 3, then 3000 more (total
                  6000) for Lv 4.
                  >
                  > Notice that according to the XP chart, an encounter of EL equal to
                  the party level will
                  > always be worth 30% of the XP needed for the next level. So really,
                  each successive
                  > level does *really* cost more to get in terms of encounters.
                  > Combine with the fact that the XP tithe associated with
                  uncompensated EP goes up
                  > exponentially, not linearly, then a flat 8 EP per level works
                  perfectly.
                  >
                  > Plus it fits the standard system the game already has defined -
                  every 8 EP of
                  > uncompensated powers equals +1 Threat Rating/TR (aka Challenge
                  Rating/CR).
                  >
                  > So being Lv 1 with 40 EP of powers makes you TR 6 (3 levels + 5x8
                  EP)
                  >
                  > But if you only buy 24 EP of powers, and spend 16 EP on levels,
                  you'll be
                  > Level 3 + (3x8 EP powers) = TR 6.
                  >
                  > They match.

                  hot damn. so they do! thank you. that explains a lot.
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