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What is P2P?

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  • Dave Winer
    I must be an idiot savant. (Hold the flames please.) I just wrote this paragraph on Scripting News: When we re finished with the corner-turn, Radio will be an
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 27, 2000
      I must be an idiot savant. (Hold the flames please.)
       
      I just wrote this paragraph on Scripting News:
       
      "When we're finished with the corner-turn, Radio will be an easy to use writing tool that works on or off the Internet, with a strong bias to being on the Internet, and has an integrated Web server. (And is highly customizable.) Then I think Radio will be where Manila was approx one year ago. Ready for feature-refinement, a simple-enough base for growth, and thankfully few of the scaling issues that come with operating thousands of free sites. There's a very pragmatic reason for P2P my friends. It's nice to use the CPUs on the users' machines to render content. This goes to the question that Doc asked this morning. Doc man, you should interview Clay and ask him about the dark matter at the edges of the universe (oops I meant Internet). First we give the power to the people (the PC revolution) then we centralize it (the Internet) then we give the power to the people (P2P) but this time we give them networking too. A conceptual hula hoop. Round and round and round."
       
      So, ipso facto, P2P stands for Power 2 People.
       
      Dave
       
      PS: Doc asked why software doesn't follow Moore's Law. I argued that it does. However ignorance is a strong opposing force.
    • Mike Dierken
      ... Right On. Couldn t have said it better myself. (Check out http://www.workingclasshero.com/discography/powertot.html) Mike D
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 28, 2000
        --- In decentralization@egroups.com, "Dave Winer" <dave@u...> wrote:
        >
        > So, ipso facto, P2P stands for Power 2 People.
        >
        > Dave

        Right On. Couldn't have said it better myself.
        (Check out http://www.workingclasshero.com/discography/powertot.html)

        Mike D
      • Lucas Gonze
        ... As persuasive a case for P2P as I ve ever heard. It s good to see real usecases emerging. I can t tell you how many VCs I pitched who said That s nice,
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 28, 2000
          > ...few of the scaling issues that come with operating thousands
          > of free sites. There's a very pragmatic reason for P2P my
          > friends. It's nice to use the CPUs on the users' machines to
          > render content.

          As persuasive a case for P2P as I've ever heard. It's good to see real
          usecases emerging. I can't tell you how many VCs I pitched who said "That's
          nice, but what do you actually do with P2P?"

          - Lucas
        • Dave Winer
          Yup, it s something an engineer would understand but most VCs don t have much of an engineering background. The net benefit to users is performance. A funny
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 28, 2000
            Yup, it's something an engineer would understand but most VCs don't have
            much of an engineering background. The net benefit to users is performance.
            A funny thing. Over the last year we've optimized our core software a lot,
            but I wasn't running it very much on my desktop so it always seemed to run
            at about the same rate. In the last few weeks I've been running my own site
            on my desktop computer and am blown away by the relative performance
            compared to running it on the server, where I share the resource with
            thousands of users. On my desktop I share it with no one, it's mine, and
            it's fast!!

            At the same time Doc is asking the question why Moore's Law applies to
            hardware and not software. It probably feels that way because many of us are
            using a clogged network and overworked servers to do things we used to do on
            our PCs. As we swing back to the PC, expect users to be saying "This thing
            is fast!" That's something anyone who has upgraded their PC in the last few
            years can appreciate.

            Dave



            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Lucas Gonze" <lucas@...>
            To: "Decentralization@..." <decentralization@egroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 2:01 PM
            Subject: RE: [decentralization] What is P2P?


            > > ...few of the scaling issues that come with operating thousands
            > > of free sites. There's a very pragmatic reason for P2P my
            > > friends. It's nice to use the CPUs on the users' machines to
            > > render content.
            >
            > As persuasive a case for P2P as I've ever heard. It's good to see real
            > usecases emerging. I can't tell you how many VCs I pitched who said
            "That's
            > nice, but what do you actually do with P2P?"
            >
            > - Lucas
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > decentralization-unsubscribe@egroups.com
            >
            >
            >
          • Todd Boyle
            Lucas Gonze: Tuesday, November 28, 2000 ... The best use of distributed processing I can think of is to crunch massive XML structures. That would let you put
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 11, 2000
              Lucas Gonze: Tuesday, November 28, 2000
              > As persuasive a case for P2P as I've ever heard. It's good to see
              > real usecases emerging. I can't tell you how many VCs I pitched who
              > said "That's nice, but what do you actually do with P2P?"
              >
              > - Lucas

              The best use of distributed processing I can think of is to crunch
              massive XML structures. That would let you put all your data in
              XML files, and all your automation or processing needs in other
              files, XSLT transformations, for example, with Xpointers and Xlinks
              and indexes everyway from sunday.

              What if there was a vast, infinite storage space, just a whitespace
              and you could put unlimited content out there. What if everybody
              on the network was required to use 1024 bit encryption because it
              was built into the clients on the network and therefore, even dumbshits
              encrypted 100% of their stuff. That's the way Windows and Linux should
              have been, but were not, designed. They were designed for top-down
              control.

              The client for this network? a pure w3c XML parser and XSLT
              transformation engine. Is there any kind of content or processing
              that can't be done or rendered, etc. by an XML processor? And, when
              you go to read your stuff or process with it, you draw upon all the
              CPUs that are sitting idle nearby...

              That would be a computing environment worth having because it would
              take back control of security from sysadmins and affix it firmly in
              the leaf nodes. heh heh! Giving access control over the data
              to the individual, permanently and irreversably.

              The data storage could be same as today, either peer to peer or on
              some ISP or ASP or even a relational database. Why not? Finally,
              a good use for an RDBMS. As soon as the peer network has a general
              ledger built into it, it would start to be adopted. Right now, there
              is noplace to put your quarter to pay for your resources. Isn't
              that ridiculous? Surely, this won't continue much longer.

              TOdd rootledger.com
            • E. Douglas Jensen
              ... From: Todd Boyle [mailto:tboyle@rosehill.net] Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 5:41 PM To: decentralization@egroups.com Subject: [decentralization] XML
              Message 6 of 6 , Dec 11, 2000
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Todd Boyle [mailto:tboyle@...]
                Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 5:41 PM
                To: decentralization@egroups.com
                Subject: [decentralization] XML parser in a forest of files

                [snip}

                "Is there any kind of content or processing
                that can't be done or rendered, etc. by an XML processor?"

                Can't? No. Can't reasonably/efficiently/feasibly/cost-effectively?
                Absolutely yes, lots of them -- e.g., in defense, industrial
                automation, telecommunications, ...

                Doug

                --
                E. Douglas Jensen (traveling)
                jensen@..., http://www.real-time.org
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