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Re: [decentralization] Dynamic Networking

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  • Eric Hopper
    ... Is there a pointer to something that describes what those techniques are? Thanks, -- It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 23, 2004
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      On Fri, Apr 23, 2004 at 08:03:58AM +0100, Julian Bond wrote:
      > complicated boundary proxies; which are the usual solutions. The
      > problem of course is that the code is proprietary even if some of the
      > techniques are fairly well understood now.

      Is there a pointer to something that describes what those techniques
      are?

      Thanks,
      --
      "It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God.
      It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --- Thomas Jefferson
      "Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company." -- Mark Twain
      -- Eric Hopper (hopper@... http://www.omnifarious.org/~hopper) --
    • Julian Bond
      ... A quick google turned up http://www-rp.lip6.fr/teredo/ Teredo for BSD. So maybe the situation is improving. Another quick reading of the MS description
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 24, 2004
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        Wes Felter <wesley@...> wrote:
        >I mentioned this a while back, and people complained that Windows 9x,
        >Mac OS X, and Linux don't support Teredo, so you have no hope of your
        >app "just working" on multiple platforms.

        A quick google turned up http://www-rp.lip6.fr/teredo/ Teredo for BSD.
        So maybe the situation is improving.

        Another quick reading of the MS description pointed at IETF drafts such
        as http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-huitema-v6ops-teredo-01.txt

        ISTM this still doesn't solve the discovery and initial connection
        problem by itself. Teredo speaks of clients, servers and crucially,
        relays. The Kazaa/Skype innovation was to decentralise the relays such
        that any directly connected servent could potentially be a relay. In
        Kazaa it's a conscious choice. In Skype, it's hidden and completely
        automatic. I think Skype has also decentralised the naming service for
        their namespace.

        I haven't been able to find any independent technical analysis of Skype.
        So you'll have to draw conclusions from their own page
        http://www.skype.com/skype_p2pexplained.html

        --
        Julian Bond Email&MSM: julian.bond at voidstar.com
        Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/
        Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/
        M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173 T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
      • Paul Prescod
        ... I can t believe that after all these years I am going to step back into the name versus location debate but I suppose I am just kind of nostalgic. Rather
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 24, 2004
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          > On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 01:47:15PM -0500, Justin Chapweske wrote:
          >
          >>In order to provide dynamic networking at the URI naming level, you
          >>simply need to switch a portion of your URIs to non-DNS-based URIs.
          >>There is no need to switch all of your URIs to be location
          >>independent, and indeed in Swarmcast we freely mix static HTTP URIs
          >>with location independent UUID URIs.

          I can't believe that after all these years I am going to step back into
          the name versus location debate but I suppose I am just kind of nostalgic.

          Rather than write a long email I've written up a little essay. Please
          excuse the fact that it is barely edited:

          http://www.prescod.net/rest/combining_names_and_locations/

          >>Location independent URIs, by their very nature, imply support for
          >>both an anycast model, as well as a single-end-node or point-to-point
          >>model. The only difference between these two cases is the number of
          >>authoritative sources that can provide the service associated with the
          >>URI in a secure fashion. In an anycast model, a number of nodes can
          >>authoritatively serve a URI, and in a point-to-point model, only a
          >>single end node can authoritatively serve a URI.

          These features all hold regardless of whether the URI has a syntax
          starting with "http://" or "uuid:" You can choose to use an anycast
          model for HTTP URIs, you can have multiple authoritiative sources for
          HTTP URIs (haven't you ever used Google's cache as more authoritiative
          than the referenced domain?) etc.

          Paul Prescod
        • Peter Ferne
          ... There is port of Teredo for Free BSD (http://www-rp.lip6.fr/teredo/) so I guess getting it working on OS X at least shouldn t be *too* much work... --
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 25, 2004
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            > I mentioned this a while back, and people complained that Windows 9x,
            > Mac OS X, and Linux don't support Teredo, so you have no hope of your
            > app "just working" on multiple platforms.

            There is port of Teredo for Free BSD (http://www-rp.lip6.fr/teredo/) so
            I guess getting it working on OS X at least shouldn't be *too* much
            work...
            --
            Peter Ferne, +44 (0)7970 942 261, properdigital@...
          • Lucas Gonze
            On Saturday, Apr 24, 2004, at 21:52 America/New_York, Paul Prescod ... For a name that isn t an address, what advantage does a name that starts with http://
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 25, 2004
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              On Saturday, Apr 24, 2004, at 21:52 America/New_York, Paul Prescod
              wrote:
              > These features all hold regardless of whether the URI has a syntax
              > starting with "http://" or "uuid:" You can choose to use an anycast
              > model for HTTP URIs, you can have multiple authoritiative sources for
              > HTTP URIs (haven't you ever used Google's cache as more authoritiative
              > than the referenced domain?) etc.

              For a name that isn't an address, what advantage does a name that
              starts with http:// have?
            • Paul Prescod
              ... 1. The ability to _become_ an address months or years after the name has been deployed. For instance, XML namespaces have started to sprout RDDL documents
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 25, 2004
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                Lucas Gonze wrote:

                > On Saturday, Apr 24, 2004, at 21:52 America/New_York, Paul Prescod
                > wrote:
                >
                >>These features all hold regardless of whether the URI has a syntax
                >>starting with "http://" or "uuid:" You can choose to use an anycast
                >>model for HTTP URIs, you can have multiple authoritiative sources for
                >>HTTP URIs (haven't you ever used Google's cache as more authoritiative
                >>than the referenced domain?) etc.
                >
                >
                > For a name that isn't an address, what advantage does a name that
                > starts with http:// have?

                1. The ability to _become_ an address months or years after the name has
                been deployed. For instance, XML namespaces have started to sprout RDDL
                documents years after they were first let out into the wild.

                2. The ability to point at its own documentation: "The URI you have
                dereferenced does not have any machine readable content but you may be
                curious about what that URI means. Here's what I know about it." This is
                also very common in the XML world: where there isn't a RDDL document at
                the end of a URI, there is often an HTML document.

                I know I've plugged UUIDs into Google to figure out what they mean, but
                that's a hit or miss proposition. Dereferencing HTTP URIs is much more
                reliable. Having the opportunity to do both is ideal. e.g. you can
                either dereference the HTML 4 namespace URI or Google it.

                [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/

                [2]
                http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&q=%22%2Bwww.w3.org/TR/html4/%22

                Paul Prescod
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