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Re: [decentralization] Re:Backlash

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  • Sampo Syreeni
    ... Indeed. They have been applied *inappropriately*. That doesn t mean they cannot be applied. If you look at the n economists amicus in Eldred, you ll see
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 17, 2002
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      On 2002-10-17, Todd Boyle uttered to decentralization@yahoogroups.com:

      >Hardware, software, and network services providers have come into
      >existence within an economic system designed for the Industrial age.
      >Classic market economics have been applied inappropriately to the
      >Information economy.

      Indeed. They have been applied *inappropriately*. That doesn't mean they
      cannot be applied. If you look at the "n economists" amicus in Eldred,
      you'll see the proper application. It's about bringing information goods,
      with their huge initial investment and near-zero marginal costs of
      replication, in line with the necessity of having real incentives to
      produce IP goods. In the traditional economy, that sort of thing comes for
      granted. In the IP one, not necessarily.

      The Open Source people certainly have part of the answers, as evidenced by
      The Cathedral and the Bazaar. Economists and politicians (God forbid me
      for saying that; it's pretty difficult to gracefully mesh that with my
      libertarian, IP abolitionist viewpoints) might have the rest, if a proper
      discussion were to evolve. The point is, we should look at the arguments,
      not at the people presenting them.

      >Owning music companies should be *out of the question* in my opinion.

      I too think so. However, I think the rationale is not as naïve as you
      would seem to suggest. Currently, there are precious few ways in which an
      author can recoup his investment, absent IP. In the future, alternative
      business models and technological innovation might well change the
      situation, but at the moment, we're stuck with what we have. I think the
      question is largely about whether we let the economy come up with ways to
      ease up the problem, or whether we let things run their course, and the IP
      industry to get stuck into more traditional business models.

      I think both ideas have their advantages, and that the balance lies
      somewhere in between. I believe what we need is a gradual change starting
      from current business models, ending with totally private solutions to the
      IP dilemma, and progressing at the pace set by the market, with people
      coming up with new business models.
      --
      Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - mailto:decoy@..., tel:+358-50-5756111
      student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front
      openpgp: 050985C2/025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
    • Kevin Werbach
      ... But that s a mistake. IT companies invest all the time in things with non-incremental and non-immediate consequences -- that s the point of R&D,
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 18, 2002
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        Lucas wrote:
        >For the IT industry, lobbying doesn't seem to matter outside of doomsday
        >scenarios. When we do see lobbying skills they're related to incremental
        >benefits.

        But that's a mistake. IT companies invest all the time in things with non-incremental and non-immediate consequences -- that's the point of R&D, Microsoft's billion dollar loss-leader on the XBox, etc. The problem is that they think they have the moral high ground. I'm on the IT industry's side in the debate, but the idea that we represent motherhood, apple pie, and the free market and everyone should recognize that is a delusion. Like it or not, Napster gave the content companies a powerful rhetorical weapon.

        -k-

        KEVIN WERBACH / kevin@... / (877) 803-7101 / http://werblog.com
        **** Supernova 2002, December 9-10 -- http://www.supernova2002.com ****
      • Kevin Werbach
        ... That s not the issue. You have to discount a life or death impact back to net present value, but it s still huge. Going forward, tech and content are
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 18, 2002
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          Lucas wrote:
          >Do you think it is a life or death struggle for the tech industry? Is
          >there any way to measure the impact of the content industry on the tech
          >downturn?

          That's not the issue. You have to discount a life or death impact back to net present value, but it's still huge. Going forward, tech and content are inextricably related. More specifically, tech and intellectual property law are inextricably related. If we think software and everything else will become more distributed, these battles will become increasingly intense. And the laws being passed today will be much harder to change tomorrow.

          -k-

          KEVIN WERBACH / kevin@... / (877) 803-7101 / http://werblog.com
          **** Supernova 2002, December 9-10 -- http://www.supernova2002.com ****
        • Kevin Werbach
          ... Economics is the science of choice under scarcity. Information goods and decentralizing technologies can change or even, for practical purposes, eliminate
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 18, 2002
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            Todd Boyle wrote:
            > Hardware, software, and network services providers have come into existence
            > within an economic system designed for the Industrial age. Classic market
            > economics have been applied inappropriately to the Information economy.

            Economics is the science of choice under scarcity. Information goods and decentralizing technologies can change or even, for practical purposes, eliminate the scarcities on which industries have been built. Unfortunately, we have a legacy of shoddy bubble-era thinking, economic and otherwise, about the New Economy, which Odlyzko among others is trying to overcome. But we need to figure out the new models that work, as opposed to just writing off the content industries as dinosaurs that are going to disappear.

            -k-

            KEVIN WERBACH / kevin@... / (877) 803-7101 / http://werblog.com
            **** Supernova 2002, December 9-10 -- http://www.supernova2002.com ****
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