Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Linux or BSD alternatives, to Groove and Radio Userland

Expand Messages
  • Mark Paschal
    ... Radio works with all browsers with which I ve tried it (MSIE, Mozilla, Netscape 6, K-Meleon, and Opera 5)--not to discourage discussion of alternatives,
    Message 1 of 27 , May 12, 2002
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      Todd Boyle wrote:
      >Radio Userland, only runs on the MSIE browser, right?

      Radio works with all browsers with which I've tried it (MSIE, Mozilla,
      Netscape 6, K-Meleon, and Opera 5)--not to discourage discussion of
      alternatives, since it's still only available for Windows and Macintosh.

      Since Radio is as much about writing in as writing out (and this is
      decentralization) I would mention Peerkat, though I can't speak for its
      likelihood to reach any sort of "critical mass."

      http://www.oreillynet.com/~rael/lang/python/peerkat/

      Blagg is also interesting, technically. DJ Adams wrote a plugin for Blagg
      to push newly aggregated items to a Jabber conference, and I wrote
      something similar to do the same to a MUD; Blagg's simple plugin system
      made it easy to glue in Net::Telnet and have it work, so maybe it'll get
      put in even stranger places.

      http://www.oreillynet.com/~rael/lang/perl/blosxom/
      http://www.oreillynet.com/~rael/lang/perl/blagg/
    • Gary Lawrence Murphy
      ... T ... I think Ray Ozzie and Dave Winer built them on Windows just T because that s where they find the largest number of users who T buy software. There
      Message 2 of 27 , May 13, 2002
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        >>>>> "T" == Todd Boyle <tboyle@...> writes:

        T> ... I think Ray Ozzie and Dave Winer built them on Windows just
        T> because that's where they find the largest number of users who
        T> buy software.

        There may be a more pragmatic reason why both may be making the same
        erroneous assumption in comparing apples and oranges: What proportion
        of those Windows buyers take chances on new paradigms? If we consider
        the relative populations of tech-savvy "early adopters" among the
        windows vs unix camps, is the base assumption (Windows:Unix = 10:1)
        still justified?

        --
        Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@...> TeleDynamics Communications Inc
        Business Innovations Through Open Source Systems: http://www.teledyn.com
        "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)
      • Gary Lawrence Murphy
        ... G ... If we consider the relative populations of tech-savvy G early adopters among the windows vs unix camps, is the base G assumption (Windows:Unix =
        Message 3 of 27 , May 13, 2002
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          >>>>> "G" == Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@...> writes:

          G> ... If we consider the relative populations of tech-savvy
          G> "early adopters" among the windows vs unix camps, is the base
          G> assumption (Windows:Unix = 10:1) still justified?

          Some earlier thoughts on this:

          Targeting Early Adopters - Say No to Windows
          http://www.osopinion.com/perl/story/9652.html

          --
          Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@...> TeleDynamics Communications Inc
          Business Innovations Through Open Source Systems: http://www.teledyn.com
          "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)
        • Zane Thomas
          Garry, ... Do we really want to target Windows? I think we need further investigation. It may be the platform to choose for staid and conservative
          Message 4 of 27 , May 13, 2002
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            Garry,

            > Targeting Early Adopters - Say No to Windows
            > http://www.osopinion.com/perl/story/9652.html

            "Do we really want to target Windows? I think we need further investigation. It may be the platform to choose for staid and conservative applications destined for pre-installation on end-user machines..."

            I guess ICQ and Napster are "staid and conservative applications".

            Zane
          • Gary Lawrence Murphy
            ... Z I guess ICQ and Napster are staid and conservative Z applications . As the article says, you can add realaudio, but now name three more. The point is
            Message 5 of 27 , May 13, 2002
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              >>>>> "Z" == Zane Thomas <zane@...> writes:

              Z> I guess ICQ and Napster are "staid and conservative
              Z> applications".

              As the article says, you can add realaudio, but now name three more.

              The point is not that there are no anecdotes. The point is that the
              math of the 93% myth is seriously flawed.

              --
              Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@...> TeleDynamics Communications Inc
              Business Innovations Through Open Source Systems: http://www.teledyn.com
              "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)
            • Lucas Gonze
              ... Let s say that your product depends on network effects and your business model depends on selling software. It might be that you have a better chance of
              Message 6 of 27 , May 13, 2002
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                > The point is not that there are no anecdotes. The point is that the
                > math of the 93% myth is seriously flawed.

                Let's say that your product depends on network effects and your business
                model depends on selling software. It might be that you have a better
                chance of getting a userbase by starting with the Linux market, because of
                the high proportion of early adopters, but to reach the Linux market you
                have to more or less give up charging for your software. Not hard to
                solve: you spend a while building a Linux userbase, then release a for-pay
                Windows port.

                This is just to say that you don't have to start on Windows just because
                your target market is Windows.

                - Lucas

                (I picked Linux instead of Unix because non-Linux Unix is fairly often
                for-pay and closed -- they're slightly different communities.)
              • rahul@reno.cis.upenn.edu
                ... Isnt this changing to macosx though now? Linux on the desktop has blown it by now, I d say, based on my experience, and student and professor demand at the
                Message 7 of 27 , May 13, 2002
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  >
                  > > The point is not that there are no anecdotes. The point is that the
                  > > math of the 93% myth is seriously flawed.
                  >
                  > Let's say that your product depends on network effects and your business
                  > model depends on selling software. It might be that you have a better
                  > chance of getting a userbase by starting with the Linux market, because of
                  > the high proportion of early adopters, but to reach the Linux market you
                  > have to more or less give up charging for your software. Not hard to
                  > solve: you spend a while building a Linux userbase, then release a for-pay
                  > Windows port.
                  >
                  > This is just to say that you don't have to start on Windows just because
                  > your target market is Windows.

                  Isnt this changing to macosx though now? Linux on the desktop has
                  blown it by now, I'd say, based on my experience, and student
                  and professor demand at the university here. The linux community and
                  companies are going to have to change their attitude and strategy if
                  they want to claw back any..i wrote a bit about it here..
                  http://3point0.nareau.com/Articles/fog0000000007.html

                  Follow ups to me please, it really isnt ontopic for the group, my point
                  is that if you do osx now, you will get the eartly adopter user as well
                  as developer types these days...
                  Rahul
                  >
                  > - Lucas
                  >
                  > (I picked Linux instead of Unix because non-Linux Unix is fairly often
                  > for-pay and closed -- they're slightly different communities.)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > decentralization-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • Lucas Gonze
                  ... Sure. What s on-topic about this, I think, is the idea that the software development ecosystem encompasses all OSen. Just because porting is a practical
                  Message 8 of 27 , May 13, 2002
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Rahul said:
                    > > This is just to say that you don't have to start on Windows just because
                    > > your target market is Windows.
                    >
                    > Isnt this changing to macosx though now?

                    Sure. What's on-topic about this, I think, is the idea that the software
                    development ecosystem encompasses all OSen. Just because porting is a
                    practical problem for developers doesn't mean that they have to have a
                    worldview that only holds one OS.
                  • Gary Lawrence Murphy
                    ... L you spend a while building a Linux userbase, then release a L for-pay Windows port. Absolutely, once you have the early adopters on Linux/BSD/OSx to
                    Message 9 of 27 , May 13, 2002
                    View Source
                    • 0 Attachment
                      >>>>> "L" == Lucas Gonze <lucas@...> writes:

                      >> The point is not that there are no anecdotes. The point is that
                      >> the math of the 93% myth is seriously flawed.

                      L> you spend a while building a Linux userbase, then release a
                      L> for-pay Windows port.

                      Absolutely, once you have the early adopters on Linux/BSD/OSx to help
                      you scale up your product and develope the infrastructure, then by
                      all means make it into a commodity product.

                      L> This is just to say that you don't have to start on Windows
                      L> just because your target market is Windows.

                      I'm not opposed to people using Windows or even to commercial
                      software; to everything there is a season. These days, if anyone
                      could offer me affordable _and_ /working/ solutions for accounting,
                      webcam drivers and video editing, I'd pay because /now/ I know the
                      Unix platform itself is worth keeping at any cost.

                      But ... there's another myth at work where the CEO and VC-appointees
                      get it into their heads that being bundled with Windows will be the
                      Holy Grail: See Keith Teare's tale of today's closing of RealNames
                      (http://www.teare.com/) -- this is not a unique story (I've worked on
                      several projects who fell into exactly this same trap)

                      --
                      Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@...> TeleDynamics Communications Inc
                      Business Innovations Through Open Source Systems: http://www.teledyn.com
                      "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)
                    • Gary Lawrence Murphy
                      ... L ... Just because porting is a practical problem for developers L doesn t mean that they have to have a worldview that only holds L one OS. Or more
                      Message 10 of 27 , May 13, 2002
                      View Source
                      • 0 Attachment
                        >>>>> "L" == Lucas Gonze <lucas@...> writes:

                        L> ... Just because porting is a practical problem for developers
                        L> doesn't mean that they have to have a worldview that only holds
                        L> one OS.

                        Or more specifically, that the perceived value of any monoculture
                        strategy may be based on erroneous and damaging assumptions about
                        whether that one platform truly is sufficient, _and_ (as the RealNames
                        story shows) whether (and for how long) the vendor of that platform
                        even wants you playing in their game.

                        --
                        Gary Lawrence Murphy <garym@...> TeleDynamics Communications Inc
                        Business Innovations Through Open Source Systems: http://www.teledyn.com
                        "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)
                      • Julian Bond
                        In article , Todd Boyle writes ... Interesting you choose these two apps as I
                        Message 11 of 27 , May 19, 2002
                        View Source
                        • 0 Attachment
                          In article <5.1.0.14.0.20020512110514.03817d90@...>,
                          Todd Boyle <tboyle@...> writes
                          >Groove only runs on Microsoft Windows, correct?
                          >and Radio Userland, only runs on the MSIE browser, right?
                          >
                          >I would appreciate the judgments of this community, what
                          >are the best alternatives for linux or bsd users, having similar
                          >capabilities and any potential to reach "critical mass".

                          Interesting you choose these two apps as I really can't think of any
                          direct alternatives on any platform.

                          You can argue that there are other weblog creation and news reading apps
                          that are cross platform and written in perl, php, python, java and such
                          like. There are also some cross platform efforts to duplicate related
                          bits to Radio such as Manila and the RCS. But Radio is rather more than
                          that and there really isn't anything with the same complete collection
                          of features.

                          For Groove there are some group collaboration tools both centralized and
                          de-centralized but nothing with the same combination of deskstop, P2P,
                          relay server and function. I can imagine Jabber extending until it can
                          support an equivalently rich client, but it's not happening directly at
                          the moment.

                          Both of these have a large component that is client side. And it doesn't
                          look to me like Linux or BSD have reached critical mass in this area,
                          let alone apps written for them. As others have said, OSX looks to be
                          the most likely *nix to do this. It seems likely that a native OSX Radio
                          might appear (if it hasn't already, I haven't looked) Given Groove's
                          current dependence on MS money[1], I very much doubt if they will do
                          anything non-windows.

                          [1]FWIW, I think Groove have over-reached themselves. Their head count
                          and burn rate are too high and not enough of them are developers. They
                          do have some revenue, but too little too late. I hope I'm wrong, but I
                          fully expect MS to buy the remains some time around the end of this
                          year.

                          --
                          Julian Bond Email&MSM: julian.bond@...
                          Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/
                          Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/
                          CV/Resume: http://www.voidstar.com/cv/
                          M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173 T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
                        • Dave Winer
                          ... Wrong. Dave
                          Message 12 of 27 , May 19, 2002
                          View Source
                          • 0 Attachment
                            >>Radio Userland, only runs on the MSIE browser, right?

                            Wrong.

                            Dave
                          • Dave Winer
                            I think Ray Ozzie and Dave Winer built them on Windows just because that s where they find the largest number of users who buy software. Accordingly I feel a
                            Message 13 of 27 , May 19, 2002
                            View Source
                            • 0 Attachment
                              "I think Ray Ozzie and Dave Winer built them on Windows just
                              because that's where they find the largest number of users
                              who buy software. Accordingly I feel a little betrayed by
                              them (and all the other vendors who only write to Windows"

                              Oh geez it gets worse. ;->

                              Radio is also available for Mac OS X and Mac Classic in addition to Windows.

                              I think you'd do better if you do a *tiny* bit of research before ranting.

                              Dave
                            • burton@openprivacy.org
                              ... Windows and OSX are both propreitary operating systems. Why not support an open source operating system like Linux or *BSD?! Kevin -- Kevin A.
                              Message 14 of 27 , May 19, 2002
                              View Source
                              • 0 Attachment
                                "Dave Winer" <dave@...> writes:

                                > "I think Ray Ozzie and Dave Winer built them on Windows just
                                > because that's where they find the largest number of users
                                > who buy software. Accordingly I feel a little betrayed by
                                > them (and all the other vendors who only write to Windows"
                                >
                                > Oh geez it gets worse. ;->
                                >
                                > Radio is also available for Mac OS X and Mac Classic in addition to Windows.
                                >
                                > I think you'd do better if you do a *tiny* bit of research before ranting.
                                <snip/>

                                Windows and OSX are both propreitary operating systems. Why not support an open
                                source operating system like Linux or *BSD?!

                                Kevin

                                --
                                Kevin A. Burton ( burton@..., burton@..., burtonator@... )
                                Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965
                                Jabber - burtonator@..., Web - http://relativity.yi.org/

                                Fist in the air in the land of hypocrisy!
                              • Mike Krus
                                ... I think it would be great to have a version of Radio8 for these platforms, however the fact that they are open source is the wrong reason for it. The right
                                Message 15 of 27 , May 20, 2002
                                View Source
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  burton@... wrote:
                                  > Windows and OSX are both propreitary operating systems. Why
                                  > not support an open source operating system like Linux or *BSD?!
                                  I think it would be great to have a version of Radio8 for these
                                  platforms, however the fact that they are open source is the
                                  wrong reason for it.

                                  The right reason, IMHO, is that their are a lot of users, that many
                                  of them are programmers and have been familiar with the web for years.
                                  I think they are bound to like Radio8 and many may come up with new
                                  ideas for it.


                                  Mike

                                  --
                                  Mike Krus mkrus@...
                                  http://www.newsisfree.com/blog/ ICQ: 30900412
                                • lucas@gonze.com
                                  ... Software tends to belong to a specific ecosystem. There is no technical reason that Winzip hasn t been ported to Linux, but the cultural and business
                                  Message 16 of 27 , May 20, 2002
                                  View Source
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    > > Radio is also available for Mac OS X and Mac Classic in addition to Windows.
                                    ...
                                    > Windows and OSX are both propreitary operating systems. Why not support an open
                                    > source operating system like Linux or *BSD?!

                                    Software tends to belong to a specific ecosystem. There is no technical
                                    reason that Winzip hasn't been ported to Linux, but the cultural and
                                    business ports are a lot harder. On Linux, why would anybody need another
                                    gunzip?

                                    Why not port Radio Userland to Linux? Because the business model is about
                                    selling software on a piece-by-piece basis, which is not generally the
                                    Linux way, and because the development style is all-in-one, instead of the
                                    "grep XXX (echo | sed | awk | perl); wget YYY" style of Unix.

                                    - Lucas
                                  • Dave Winer
                                    Got a couple million bucks? You can afford to have an opinion about this then. Dave ... From: To:
                                    Message 17 of 27 , May 20, 2002
                                    View Source
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Got a couple million bucks? You can afford to have an opinion about this
                                      then. Dave


                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: <burton@...>
                                      To: <decentralization@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 11:11 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [decentralization] Linux or BSD alternatives, to Groove and
                                      Radio Userland


                                      > "Dave Winer" <dave@...> writes:
                                      >
                                      > > "I think Ray Ozzie and Dave Winer built them on Windows just
                                      > > because that's where they find the largest number of users
                                      > > who buy software. Accordingly I feel a little betrayed by
                                      > > them (and all the other vendors who only write to Windows"
                                      > >
                                      > > Oh geez it gets worse. ;->
                                      > >
                                      > > Radio is also available for Mac OS X and Mac Classic in addition to
                                      Windows.
                                      > >
                                      > > I think you'd do better if you do a *tiny* bit of research before
                                      ranting.
                                      > <snip/>
                                      >
                                      > Windows and OSX are both propreitary operating systems. Why not support
                                      an open
                                      > source operating system like Linux or *BSD?!
                                      >
                                      > Kevin
                                      >
                                      > --
                                      > Kevin A. Burton ( burton@..., burton@...,
                                      burtonator@... )
                                      > Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965
                                      > Jabber - burtonator@..., Web - http://relativity.yi.org/
                                      >
                                      > Fist in the air in the land of hypocrisy!
                                      >
                                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                      > decentralization-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • burton@openprivacy.org
                                      ... I would assert that it isn t a wrong reason... if you are more interested in the number of users that is fine. Just don t diminish the importances
                                      Message 18 of 27 , May 20, 2002
                                      View Source
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Mike Krus <mkrus@...> writes:

                                        > burton@... wrote:
                                        > > Windows and OSX are both propreitary operating systems. Why
                                        > > not support an open source operating system like Linux or *BSD?!

                                        > I think it would be great to have a version of Radio8 for these platforms,
                                        > however the fact that they are open source is the wrong reason for it.
                                        >
                                        > The right reason, IMHO, is that their are a lot of users, that many of them
                                        > are programmers and have been familiar with the web for years. I think they
                                        > are bound to like Radio8 and many may come up with new ideas for it.
                                        <snip/>

                                        I would assert that it isn't a wrong reason... if you are more interested in
                                        the number of users that is fine. Just don't diminish the importances of Open
                                        Source systems :)

                                        Kevin

                                        --
                                        Kevin A. Burton ( burton@..., burton@..., burtonator@... )
                                        Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965
                                        Jabber - burtonator@..., Web - http://relativity.yi.org/

                                        bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce.
                                        bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce. bounce.
                                        - Fatboy Slim
                                      • burton@openprivacy.org
                                        ... Very professional attitude... Kevin -- Kevin A. Burton ( burton@apache.org, burton@openprivacy.org, burtonator@acm.org )
                                        Message 19 of 27 , May 20, 2002
                                        View Source
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          "Dave Winer" <dave@...> writes:

                                          > Got a couple million bucks? You can afford to have an opinion about this
                                          > then. Dave

                                          <snip/>

                                          <sarcasm>

                                          Very professional attitude...

                                          </sarcasm>

                                          Kevin

                                          --
                                          Kevin A. Burton ( burton@..., burton@..., burtonator@... )
                                          Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965
                                          Jabber - burtonator@..., Web - http://relativity.yi.org/

                                          2600 Magazine says Ford sucks: http://www.fordreallysucks.com/more_info.html
                                        • alastair
                                          In reply to burton@openprivacy.org, who said ; ... Dave Winer said ; ... I find this answer a little unsatisfactory I m afraid and would like to press you
                                          Message 20 of 27 , May 20, 2002
                                          View Source
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            In reply to burton@..., who said ;
                                            > Why not support an open source operating system like Linux or *BSD?!

                                            Dave Winer said ;
                                            > Got a couple million bucks? You can afford to have an opinion about
                                            > this then. Dave

                                            I find this answer a little unsatisfactory I'm afraid and would like to
                                            press you again. Are you really saying that a version of Radio would
                                            cost $2m to port to Linux or BSD? That's a lot of money and, if a true
                                            estimate, a cost that I'd agree was prohibitive. I don't quite
                                            believe it though.

                                            Is it the cost of the port? or the perceived size of the market? or
                                            something else? Just wondering whether you've considered it at all and
                                            what your debate might have resulted in.

                                            As for Lucas' 'all-in-one' development style being ill-suited to
                                            Linux/BSD, I don't quite believe that either - at least not any more. As
                                            much as I love the power and elegance of sed/awk/cut/perl in a script,
                                            the market is maturing a little beyond that I think.

                                            So, why not Radio Linux really?

                                            Cheers,


                                            --
                                            Alastair
                                            http://www.calliope.demon.co.uk
                                            ------------------------------------------------------------
                                          • Michael Herman (mwherman2000)
                                            Tim O Reilly, in his opening keynote presentation at the O Reilly Emerging Technology Conference last week, more formally kicked off the idea of an Internet
                                            Message 21 of 27 , May 20, 2002
                                            View Source
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Tim O'Reilly, in his opening keynote presentation at the O'Reilly
                                              Emerging Technology Conference last week, more formally kicked off the
                                              idea of an Internet Operating System.

                                              I propose that an Inet OS could be conceived as a "net new" set of
                                              layered Inet OS services designed to run across a range of platforms - a
                                              range of platforms - not necessarily all of them.

                                              Checkout http://www.parallelspace.net/knowledge/default.htm#inetos


                                              Cheers,
                                              Michael Herman
                                              Founder and CTO, Parallelspace Corporation

                                              This Outlook eMail was sent directly from Groove Workspace using
                                              Parallelspace eMail

                                              http://www.parallelspace.net/solutions



                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: alastair [mailto:alastair@...]
                                              Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 6:21 PM
                                              To: decentralization@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [decentralization] Linux or BSD alternatives, to Groove and
                                              Radio Userland



                                              In reply to burton@..., who said ;
                                              > Why not support an open source operating system like Linux or *BSD?!

                                              Dave Winer said ;
                                              > Got a couple million bucks? You can afford to have an opinion about
                                              > this then. Dave

                                              I find this answer a little unsatisfactory I'm afraid and would like to
                                              press you again. Are you really saying that a version of Radio would
                                              cost $2m to port to Linux or BSD? That's a lot of money and, if a true
                                              estimate, a cost that I'd agree was prohibitive. I don't quite believe
                                              it though.

                                              Is it the cost of the port? or the perceived size of the market? or
                                              something else? Just wondering whether you've considered it at all and
                                              what your debate might have resulted in.

                                              As for Lucas' 'all-in-one' development style being ill-suited to
                                              Linux/BSD, I don't quite believe that either - at least not any more. As
                                              much as I love the power and elegance of sed/awk/cut/perl in a script,
                                              the market is maturing a little beyond that I think.

                                              So, why not Radio Linux really?

                                              Cheers,


                                              --
                                              Alastair
                                              http://www.calliope.demon.co.uk
                                              ------------------------------------------------------------

                                              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              decentralization-unsubscribe@egroups.com



                                              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            • burton@openprivacy.org
                                              ... Make you a deal... give me the source code to radio and I will port it for 1/3 the cost :) Kevin -- Kevin A. Burton ( burton@apache.org,
                                              Message 22 of 27 , May 20, 2002
                                              View Source
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                alastair <alastair@...> writes:

                                                > In reply to burton@..., who said ;
                                                > > Why not support an open source operating system like Linux or *BSD?!
                                                >
                                                > Dave Winer said ;
                                                > > Got a couple million bucks? You can afford to have an opinion about
                                                > > this then. Dave
                                                >
                                                > I find this answer a little unsatisfactory I'm afraid and would like to
                                                > press you again. Are you really saying that a version of Radio would
                                                > cost $2m to port to Linux or BSD? That's a lot of money and, if a true
                                                > estimate, a cost that I'd agree was prohibitive. I don't quite
                                                > believe it though.
                                                <snip/>

                                                Make you a deal... give me the source code to radio and I will port it for 1/3
                                                the cost :)

                                                Kevin

                                                --
                                                Kevin A. Burton ( burton@..., burton@..., burtonator@... )
                                                Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965
                                                Jabber - burtonator@..., Web - http://relativity.yi.org/

                                                %shell%> ls -al /dev/burton
                                                brwxrwxrwx 1 root disk 22, 0 Apr 23 1976 /dev/burton
                                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.