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Re: [decentralization] Sun alliance targets Microsoft's Passport

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  • Jonathan Berry
    Can someone fill me in on whether Sun and Co. are just an alternative to a megalith or a legit OS group? If this is offlist for here please contact me by
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 26, 2001
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      Can someone fill me in on whether Sun and Co. are just an alternative to a
      megalith or a legit OS group? If this is offlist for here please contact me
      by e-mail below.

      Jonathan C. Berry
      Consultant/Communication Researcher
      757.535.4953 (m)
      jcharlesberry@...

      _________________________________________________________________
      Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
    • Brian Behlendorf
      ... Details are still being determined. All the groups mentioned in that announcement agreed to was an expression of interest in working together on common
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 26, 2001
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        On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, Jonathan Berry wrote:
        > Can someone fill me in on whether Sun and Co. are just an alternative to a
        > megalith or a legit OS group? If this is offlist for here please contact me
        > by e-mail below.

        Details are still being determined. All the groups mentioned in that
        announcement agreed to was an expression of interest in working together
        on common specs and common code.

        Brian
      • Lucas Gonze
        This is 100% pure FUD. No announced members have a decent sized user identity database. AOL is Sun s traditional ally and it isn t a member. Yahoo, ICQ, and
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 26, 2001
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          This is 100% pure FUD.

          No announced members have a decent sized user identity database. AOL is Sun's
          traditional ally and it isn't a member. Yahoo, ICQ, and Jabber aren't members.
          IBM isn't a member. Verisign and eBay are members but have deals to support
          Passport also.

          There is no technology announced at all -- absurd!

          Would it be possible, every once in a while, to do something aside from zigging
          to the enemy's zag? Would it be possible to encourage the growth of identity
          services as long as competition was open? Would it be even vaguely possible to
          put the good of users before the thrill of competition?
        • Michael Herman (Parallelspace)
          Strategic Vaporware ... From: Lucas Gonze [mailto:lucas@worldos.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 5:12 PM To: decentralization@yahoogroups.com Subject:
          Message 4 of 6 , Sep 26, 2001
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            Strategic Vaporware

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Lucas Gonze [mailto:lucas@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 5:12 PM
            To: decentralization@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [decentralization] Sun alliance targets Microsoft's
            Passport


            This is 100% pure FUD.

            No announced members have a decent sized user identity database. AOL is
            Sun's traditional ally and it isn't a member. Yahoo, ICQ, and Jabber
            aren't members. IBM isn't a member. Verisign and eBay are members but
            have deals to support Passport also.

            There is no technology announced at all -- absurd!

            Would it be possible, every once in a while, to do something aside from
            zigging to the enemy's zag? Would it be possible to encourage the
            growth of identity services as long as competition was open? Would it
            be even vaguely possible to put the good of users before the thrill of
            competition?



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          • Lucas Gonze
            Here is a possible settlement between Liberty Alliance Project and MS: * Kerberos, as with Passport * but standard kerberos, not the proprietary un-kerberos *
            Message 5 of 6 , Sep 26, 2001
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              Here is a possible settlement between Liberty Alliance Project and MS:
              * Kerberos, as with Passport
              * but standard kerberos, not the proprietary un-kerberos
              * who can federate is completely open. Any ISP can do it, any paranoid
              individual with an always-on connection can do it. (I don't know if that is
              technically feasible) (*1)
              * Passport is the model for interactions, but the standard is declared free of
              patent protections by MS. (...just like w/ all w3c projects, right?)

              To LAP members, let me point out that MS has the users and may well atomize the
              opposition -- you should be willing to compromise. To MS, let me point out that
              you are working very hard to bring in third party developers, and these are the
              third party developers; AOL is likely to join LAP (if it can tear itself away
              from its own navel); and Yahoo is not married to you via IMUnified. Both
              factions have an incentive to work together.

              I feel that MS' glommed onto Kerberos prematurely, and wouldn't have used it if
              they had anticipated need for broad federation. On a technical level it may not
              be up to the huge task that Passport hopes to solve, but so what. Passport is
              here now and it's time to get cracking on running code.

              - Lucas

              *1: per http://www.pasta.cs.uit.no/thesis/html/ronnya/node39.html
              "this requires O(N2)key exchanges to interconnect N domains. Version 5 of
              Kerberos improves this by establishing a hierarchy of domains where any domain
              may inter-operate with any other domain in the hierarchy. This arrangement
              reduces the number of key exchanges to O(logN). " ---- that's still
              potentially a hell of a lot of key exchanges.
            • Wesley Felter
              ... This article tells it a little differently: http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/09/26/010926hnpassriup.xml ... Yes, quite a shame. Wesley Felter -
              Message 6 of 6 , Sep 26, 2001
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                On Wed, 26 Sep 2001, Lucas Gonze wrote:

                > This is 100% pure FUD.
                >
                > No announced members have a decent sized user identity database. AOL is Sun's
                > traditional ally and it isn't a member. Yahoo, ICQ, and Jabber aren't members.
                > IBM isn't a member. Verisign and eBay are members but have deals to support
                > Passport also.

                This article tells it a little differently:

                http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/01/09/26/010926hnpassriup.xml

                > There is no technology announced at all -- absurd!

                Yes, quite a shame.

                Wesley Felter - wesley@... - http://felter.org/wesley/
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