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RE: [decentralization] FW: The first meeting of Intel's Peer-to-Peer Working Group

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  • Wesley M. Felter
    ... But these different P2P systems don t do the same thing, and we don t even know if they work! Once there are multiple P2P systems which (A) do similar
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 12, 2000
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      On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Lucas Gonze wrote:

      > The problem is network externalities. The amount of resources available to all
      > the subnets combined is a hell of a lot bigger than the amount of resources
      > available to any one subnet. Freenet people shouldn't have to reinvent P2P
      > transactions, authentication, etc if Jungle Monkey people already have these
      > resources available. Ok, I can build a Radio Userland compatibility layer into
      > my P2P app X, but do I also have to custom build a Gnutella layer, and a Napster
      > layer, ad infinitum?

      But these different P2P systems don't do the same thing, and we don't even
      know if they work!

      Once there are multiple P2P systems which (A) do similar things (B) which
      people actually use and (C) scale, then let's talk about standards. I
      don't think we're at that point yet.

      (If some P2P developers want to borrow ideas/protocols/code from each
      other, I'm all for that. But let's not confuse that with standardization.)

      Wesley Felter - wesf@... - http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/wesf/
    • Lucas Gonze
      ... taint so. They are extremely similar. Routing algorithms differ a little, but not that much. Napster, for example, is just a simple 3-node Gnutella
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 12, 2000
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        > But these different P2P systems don't do the same thing,

        taint so. They are extremely similar. Routing algorithms differ a little, but
        not that much. Napster, for example, is just a simple 3-node Gnutella network.
        And the general problems are the same for every P2P network - reputation
        management, throttling, decentralized transactions.

        > and we don't even
        > know if they work!

        Or maybe we can be sure that they don't: http://dss.clip2.com/dss_barrier.html

        from that analysis:
        Quantitatively, we have observed a correlation between the average query rate
        and the responsiveness of the network to Gnutella pings. As the average query
        rate increases, the fraction of hosts returning Gnutella pongs in response to
        Gnutella pings decreases.

        I suggest that this is because incoming messages cause the message queue to spin
        faster, which decreases the amount of time available for responses to return and
        be passed back. This problem occurs with all queue-based routing. Again, it's
        a common problem.
      • Simon St.Laurent
        ... Well, hey. News.com is doubting whether there s money in P2P anyway, so who d want to pay to sit in a room anyway?
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 12, 2000
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          At 11:00 AM 9/12/00 -0700, Lucas Gonze wrote:
          >Info, slightly trimmed, on Intel's working group. Note that this is a pay to
          >play event, meaning non-commercial developers are out of this dialog for the
          >most part.
          >

          Well, hey. News.com is doubting whether there's money in P2P anyway, so
          who'd want to pay to sit in a room anyway?

          http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-2758911.html?tag=st.ne.1002.bgif.ni

          Oh well. Money, rooms, whatever.

          Simon St.Laurent
          XML Elements of Style / XML: A Primer, 2nd Ed.
          XHTML: Migrating Toward XML
          http://www.simonstl.com - XML essays and books
        • beberg@mithral.com
          Wow, the hype is dying before people could even release any products *chuckles* too funny. I wonder if the press is getting just too efficent, and if there is
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 18, 2000
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            Wow, the hype is dying before people could even release any
            products *chuckles* too funny. I wonder if the press is
            getting just too efficent, and if there is room to hype
            something AND make a product actually work before the
            next-big-thing drains everyone away.

            And the Intel meeting got MOVED?

            http://www.peer-to-peerwg.org/meetings/index.html

            Think they will start kicking people out?

            --- In decentralization@egroups.com, "Simon St.Laurent"
            <simonstl@s...> wrote:
            > Well, hey. News.com is doubting whether there's money in P2P
            anyway, so
            > who'd want to pay to sit in a room anyway?
            >
            >
            http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-2758911.html?tag=st.ne.1002.bgif.
            ni
          • Justin Chapweske
            Hey Adam, nice to see you here! Maybe they re thinking of moving the meeting to Minneapolis to accomodate us. :P If not we should just go grab a beer because
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 18, 2000
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              Hey Adam, nice to see you here! Maybe they're thinking of moving the
              meeting to Minneapolis to accomodate us. :P If not we should just go grab
              a beer because I don't think I've seen you since rootfest '99...

              -Justin

              On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 beberg@... wrote:

              > Wow, the hype is dying before people could even release any
              > products *chuckles* too funny. I wonder if the press is
              > getting just too efficent, and if there is room to hype
              > something AND make a product actually work before the
              > next-big-thing drains everyone away.
              >
              > And the Intel meeting got MOVED?
              >
              > http://www.peer-to-peerwg.org/meetings/index.html
              >
              > Think they will start kicking people out?
              >
              > --- In decentralization@egroups.com, "Simon St.Laurent"
              > <simonstl@s...> wrote:
              > > Well, hey. News.com is doubting whether there's money in P2P
              > anyway, so
              > > who'd want to pay to sit in a room anyway?
              > >
              > >
              > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-2758911.html?tag=st.ne.1002.bgif.
              > ni
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > decentralization-unsubscribe@egroups.com
              >
              >
              >
            • beberg@mithral.com
              Yea, only I moved too... The meeting _was_ not even a mile from where I live now. Obviously it s grown to more poeple then can possibly agree on anything, I
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 18, 2000
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                Yea, only I moved too...

                The meeting _was_ not even a mile from where I live now.

                Obviously it's grown to more poeple then can possibly agree
                on anything, I doubt the Intel group will even agree
                that TCP/IP is the way to go.

                Should be a riot.

                --- In decentralization@egroups.com, Justin Chapweske <orasis@a...>
                wrote:
                > Hey Adam, nice to see you here! Maybe they're thinking of moving
                the
                > meeting to Minneapolis to accomodate us. :P If not we should just
                go grab
                > a beer because I don't think I've seen you since rootfest '99...
                >
                > -Justin
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