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sellers can f** off, traders are welcome...

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  • Bill Tokash
    dude, i do not know how everyone else on the list feels, but selling boots is totally uncool and illegal.. so i say take your sales offers somewhere else..
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 25, 2002
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      dude,
       
      i do not know how everyone else on the list feels, but selling boots is totally uncool and illegal..
       
      so i say take your sales offers somewhere else..
       
      bill
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 8:28 AM
      Subject: [debaser] Re: Breeders dates/Tapers?

      Would be interested in procuring four Frank Black tunes he recorded
      BEFORE the formation of the Pixies? This is not a jest. In his umass
      dorm room with an unidentified friend, Frank strummed acoustic guitar
      into a boom box and recorded four great tunes. The tracks appear on a
      CD-R. The quality of the recording is not studio, but it takes
      nothing away from the music. NO collector should be without this rare
      piece of Frank Black history. Only 5.99 plus four dollars shipping.
      Insurance optional. Feel free to ask any question you like.

      Dave



      --- In debaser@y..., "welcometolittleswitzerland" <jaredc@t...> wrote:
      > hiya all,
      >
      > i was wondering if anyone was planning on taping any of the
      upcoming
      > breeders dates...
      >
      > i'm heading out to the austin show but most likely will not be able
      > to tape it (it's a matter of buying a new recorder to replace my
      > aging analog deck or pay rent...and i would quite like to keep my
      > apartment). any group members planning on possibly mp3'ing shows
      and
      > putting them to an ftp or something of that nature?
      >
      > well anywho, i'm in eager anticipation of the 30th...i've been
      > waiting a loooooong time to see this!
      >
      > *jared





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    • welcometolittleswitzerland
      agreed, that s been my argument to the whole live show trading/mp3 thing for a long time. the reason a bootlegger can get $25 for a show is because of
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 25, 2002
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        agreed,

        that's been my argument to the whole live show trading/mp3 thing for
        a long time. the reason a bootlegger can get $25 for a show is
        because of demand...trading bootlegs and giving folks shows
        eliminates demand in my book =) bootleggers have no one to peddle to.

        besides, i think usually the people realy interested in live
        recordings tend to be obsessive fans who already own all there is to
        own anyway, studio albums and otherwise. c'mon, i actually sent away
        for breeders digest pillowcases...i think that gives me the right to
        own the 'double trouble' bootleg. =)

        *jared
      • kevin@pigsinzen.com
        I personally can t stand it when people sell bootlegs. I have tons of recordings (mostly Jane s Addiction) and have been trading for a few years thru my site
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 25, 2002
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          I personally can't stand it when people sell bootlegs.  I have tons of recordings (mostly Jane's Addiction) and have been trading for a few years thru my site now.  I've never sold a live recording, and never bought one... with the exception of those "official" bootlegs.  I'd much rather trade. 
           
          ^v^ kevin ^v^
          -----Original Message-----
          From: welcometolittleswitzerland [mailto:jaredc@...]
          Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 1:54 AM
          To: debaser@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [debaser] Re: sellers can f** off, traders are welcome...

          agreed,

          that's been my argument to the whole live show trading/mp3 thing for
          a long time. the reason a bootlegger can get $25 for a show is
          because of demand...trading bootlegs and giving folks shows
          eliminates demand in my book =)  bootleggers have no one to peddle to.

          besides, i think usually the people realy interested in live
          recordings tend to be obsessive fans who already own all there is to
          own anyway, studio albums and otherwise. c'mon, i actually sent away
          for breeders digest pillowcases...i think that gives me the right to
          own the 'double trouble' bootleg. =)

          *jared



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        • CujoBen@webtv.net
          Yeah well, whether you like it or not, buying bootlegs has always been a reality of the music industry and always will be. It s only natural for a huge fan of
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 26, 2002
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            Yeah well, whether you like it or not, buying bootlegs has always been a
            reality of the music industry and always will be. It's only natural for
            a huge fan of some band to want to get their hands on everything they
            possibly can of that band, myself included. I'm no different. I would
            buy as many bootlegs as possible of any one of my favorite bands, which
            I've always done and always will do! If anyone has a problem with that,
            too bad. Granted, it is a risky thing, buying bootlegs. Quality-wise,
            the sound quality of bootleg CD's and such aren't always exactly spiffy,
            but most of mine I own overall I'd say are pretty damn good...(and keep
            in mind, trading bootlegs is very rarely ever an option for me, b/c 98%
            or more of my 500+ CD's in my collection is stuff I'd never trade, and
            as of yet, I still don't own a CD burner, which would of course enable
            me to make copies of CD's and sell or trade myself, if I wanted to)...so
            no, I don't think there's anything wrong with buying bootlegs. And as
            far as I'm concerned, this is the way I look at the whole thing: If
            artists or bands didn't want their fans bootlegging their shows, then
            they wouldn't allow recorders in the arenas or clubs in the first place,
            if it was really that big a deal to them. B/c if bands or artists do
            allow fans to bring recorders into the arenas or clubs and bootleg the
            shows, (as many do), then they have no reason to bitch when fans do in
            fact bootleg their shows. And that's my two cents on this subject...


            Cheers,

            ThE BeNsTeR
          • Bill Tokash
            couple of responses to ben... 1. there will be no market for selling boots if the trading world continues to grow. soon enough everyone will have burners,
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 26, 2002
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              couple of responses to ben...
               
              1. there will be no market for selling boots if the trading world continues to grow.   soon enough everyone will have burners, just like everyone now has a phone, tv, vcr, tape deck, etc.  so might as well make the mental jump now, stop buying, and start trading..
               
              2. respectable traders guarantee satisfaction on quality of the show, so no risk there, unlike buying...
               
              3.  artists that allow trading are not condoning sales, they take the chance that their stuff will be sold (and bought) by insincere folks so that the true fan can benefit.  it's a trade-off that they are gutsy enough to risk..
               
              4.  there is absolutely no moral or legal ground for you to stand on that it's okay to sell/buy, because it's not okay..
               
              bt
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 9:31 AM
              Subject: RE: [debaser] Re: sellers can f** off, traders are welcome...


              Yeah well, whether you like it or not, buying bootlegs has always been a
              reality of the music industry and always will be. It's only natural for
              a huge fan of some band to want to get their hands on everything they
              possibly can of that band, myself included. I'm no different. I would
              buy as many bootlegs as possible of any one of my favorite bands, which
              I've always done and always will do!  If anyone has a problem with that,
              too bad.  Granted, it is a risky thing, buying bootlegs.  Quality-wise,
              the sound quality of bootleg CD's and such aren't always exactly spiffy,
              but most of mine I own overall I'd say are pretty damn good...(and keep
              in mind, trading bootlegs is very rarely ever an option for me, b/c 98%
              or more of my 500+ CD's in my collection is stuff I'd never trade, and
              as of yet, I still don't own a CD burner, which would of course enable
              me to make copies of CD's and sell or trade myself, if I wanted to)...so
              no, I don't think there's anything wrong with buying bootlegs. And as
              far as I'm concerned, this is the way I look at the whole thing: If
              artists or bands didn't want their fans bootlegging their shows, then
              they wouldn't allow recorders in the arenas or clubs in the first place,
              if it was really that big a deal to them.  B/c if bands or artists do
              allow fans to bring recorders into the arenas or clubs and bootleg the
              shows, (as many do), then they have no reason to bitch when fans do in
              fact bootleg their shows. And that's my two cents on this subject...


                         Cheers,

                         ThE BeNsTeR




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            • CujoBen@webtv.net
              Bill, Well, you re more than entitled to feel the way you do about buying or selling bootlegs, and I m entitled to feel the way I do. I can respect an
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 26, 2002
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                Bill,

                Well, you're more than entitled to feel the way you do about buying
                or selling bootlegs, and I'm entitled to feel the way I do. I can
                respect an opinion even if I don't agree with it, so even though my
                views don't agree with yours on this issue, everyone's still entitled to
                their own opinion. So each to their own...


                Regards,

                Ben
              • Bill Tokash
                ben, thanks for keeping this civil... bill ... From: CujoBen@webtv.net To: debaser@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 3:01 PM Subject: Re:
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 26, 2002
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                  ben,
                  thanks for keeping this civil...
                  bill
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 3:01 PM
                  Subject: Re: [debaser] Re: sellers can f** off, traders are welcome...


                  Bill,

                       Well, you're more than entitled to feel the way you do about buying
                  or selling bootlegs,  and I'm entitled to feel the way I do.  I can
                  respect an opinion even if I don't agree with it, so even though my
                  views don't agree with yours on this issue, everyone's still entitled to
                  their own opinion. So each to their own...


                          Regards,

                          Ben




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                • kevin@pigsinzen.com
                  Yup, supply and demand. I just think it s unfortunate that a lot of people don t know that there is a trading community at all. It wasn t until I d spent a
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 26, 2002
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                    Yup, supply and demand.  I just think it's unfortunate that a lot of people don't know that there is a "trading community" at all.  It wasn't until I'd spent a shitload of cash on "official" bootlegs that I even found out about trading.  Selling CD-Rs just rubs me the wrong way.  That's just my opinion, your mileage may vary.
                     
                    ^v^ kevin ^v^
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: CujoBen@... [mailto:CujoBen@...]
                    Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 10:31 AM
                    To: debaser@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [debaser] Re: sellers can f** off, traders are welcome...


                    Yeah well, whether you like it or not, buying bootlegs has always been a
                    reality of the music industry and always will be. It's only natural for
                    a huge fan of some band to want to get their hands on everything they
                    possibly can of that band, myself included. I'm no different. I would
                    buy as many bootlegs as possible of any one of my favorite bands, which
                    I've always done and always will do!  If anyone has a problem with that,
                    too bad.  Granted, it is a risky thing, buying bootlegs.  Quality-wise,
                    the sound quality of bootleg CD's and such aren't always exactly spiffy,
                    but most of mine I own overall I'd say are pretty damn good...(and keep
                    in mind, trading bootlegs is very rarely ever an option for me, b/c 98%
                    or more of my 500+ CD's in my collection is stuff I'd never trade, and
                    as of yet, I still don't own a CD burner, which would of course enable
                    me to make copies of CD's and sell or trade myself, if I wanted to)...so
                    no, I don't think there's anything wrong with buying bootlegs. And as
                    far as I'm concerned, this is the way I look at the whole thing: If
                    artists or bands didn't want their fans bootlegging their shows, then
                    they wouldn't allow recorders in the arenas or clubs in the first place,
                    if it was really that big a deal to them.  B/c if bands or artists do
                    allow fans to bring recorders into the arenas or clubs and bootleg the
                    shows, (as many do), then they have no reason to bitch when fans do in
                    fact bootleg their shows. And that's my two cents on this subject...


                               Cheers,

                               ThE BeNsTeR




                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  • Matt Fagan
                    Not to offend either side, but there are obviously some things wrong with both choices. For instance, how can you possibly trade if you ve never bought a
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jan 27, 2002
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                      Not to offend either side, but there are obviously some things wrong with both choices.  For instance, how can you possibly trade if you've never bought a bootleg?  I'm sure most people aren't willing to trade something for nothing, so obviously you need to start somewhere.  And although you don't get money from trading, it doesn't seem like traders should act superior in any way to people who have bought bootlegs(not that they do), because you're still getting something for handing out someone's music.  I would think that people who think bootlegging is wrong would also be against trading, because the basic principles are still there.  Although it does seem really cheesy to do something like email a group like this with a thinly-veiled, sleazy commercial.  Especially for something you can get a thousand other places for free.

                      And I agree about selling/buying CD-Rs.  It just takes a little bit away from me to have a CD in my collection that looks like it was bought at Staples.  It's gotta have that painted label.



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