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Re: The Faith Instinct

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  • bestonnet_00
    ... Depends on what religion (and also on what parts of that religion are emphasised). Still, the most successful religions (at least in terms of number of
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 4, 2011
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      --- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "eh60driver" wrote:
      >
      > Wade made the point that religion prepares its followers for war.

      Depends on what religion (and also on what parts of that religion are emphasised).

      Still, the most successful religions (at least in terms of number of members) do tend to be pretty violent.

      > Not that religion is the cause of war, but it is a motivator for
      > war.

      Religion has been the cause of wars.

      > Wars are all political, but would be hard to convince people to die
      > for politics.

      Survival can also convince people to fight, as can ideals like democracy.

      > Secular societies have substituted religion of god for religion of
      > nationalism.

      Sometimes, but not always.

      > So, religion does not really disappear in societies with high
      > standards of living.

      Well church attendance drops, as do the number of people claiming to be religious and it doesn't seem to be replaced by anything.

      > Those societies need young people willing to die for that standard,
      > and what better way than the religion of nationalism?

      Some of those societies are peaceful.

      > And in the US, religion has not nearly disappeared.

      The US is an outlier probably due to the high level of income inequality among developed countries.

      > And the US is the most militaristic society that has ever existed
      > (my opinion).

      No way, the US is a pretty militant democracy (along with the UK, India and Israel) but has nothing on the Roman Empire for militarism.
    • eh60driver
      I agree that the US military is not as brutal or barbaric as the Roman military was (some would argue with that,think Abu Ghraib, My Lai, water boarding), yet
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 8, 2011
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        I agree that the US military is not as brutal or barbaric as the Roman military was (some would argue with that,think Abu Ghraib, My Lai, water boarding), yet the US is a very militaristic society. Our military and our wars trump everything, education, health care, social programs,etc. Consider the following editorial from the NY Times, reprinted in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette:

        http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11007/1116087-109.stm

        I still believe that nationalism is a religion of the state, in the US especially. Every little town has war memorials, VFW's, American Legions,etc. With all the various religious sects in the US competing for our buck, the larger religion of the state unites them all. Perhaps that is a good thing, religious sects aren't killing each other, but our wars and our military budget is breaking us. Note in the above cited article, the Eisenhower quote. The great American Empire is crumbling, and its cause is our state religion, nationalism.

        Rodg

        --- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, bestonnet_00 <no_reply@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "eh60driver" wrote:
        > >
        > > Wade made the point that religion prepares its followers for war.
        >
        > Depends on what religion (and also on what parts of that religion are emphasised).
        >
        > Still, the most successful religions (at least in terms of number of members) do tend to be pretty violent.
        >
        > > Not that religion is the cause of war, but it is a motivator for
        > > war.
        >
        > Religion has been the cause of wars.
        >
        > > Wars are all political, but would be hard to convince people to die
        > > for politics.
        >
        > Survival can also convince people to fight, as can ideals like democracy.
        >
        > > Secular societies have substituted religion of god for religion of
        > > nationalism.
        >
        > Sometimes, but not always.
        >
        > > So, religion does not really disappear in societies with high
        > > standards of living.
        >
        > Well church attendance drops, as do the number of people claiming to be religious and it doesn't seem to be replaced by anything.
        >
        > > Those societies need young people willing to die for that standard,
        > > and what better way than the religion of nationalism?
        >
        > Some of those societies are peaceful.
        >
        > > And in the US, religion has not nearly disappeared.
        >
        > The US is an outlier probably due to the high level of income inequality among developed countries.
        >
        > > And the US is the most militaristic society that has ever existed
        > > (my opinion).
        >
        > No way, the US is a pretty militant democracy (along with the UK, India and Israel) but has nothing on the Roman Empire for militarism.
        >
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