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Re: [Death To Religion] Hi

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  • praesto12
    I will pray for you Kaylee, as I m sure that others are. How old are you?    Tell me, you seem so proud to be an Atheist. What do you mean by the term?
    Message 1 of 202 , Sep 12, 2010
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      I will pray for you Kaylee, as I'm sure that others are. How old are you? 
       
      Tell me, you seem so proud to be an Atheist. What do you mean by the term?




      ________________________________
      From: kaylee coats <sumluvlifilth@...>
      To: deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sun, September 12, 2010 10:23:16 PM
      Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Hi

       
      haha, pray all you want, what do I care? I don't feel failed by my church, at
      first I felt failed by my god, and church fell by the wayside, and then I could
      no longer believe, and church was a dumb thing that it was time for me to leave
      behind, like a growing out of clothes and needing to get new ones. I still love
      the people from my church, we simply don't see eye-to-eye anymore.

      ________________________________
      From: praesto12 <Praesto12@...>
      To: deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sat, September 11, 2010 9:38:58 PM
      Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Hi

      I completely agree that hating someone you claim not to believe in is absurd,
      but it is indeed the attitude of many atheist. I think you have taken the kool

      aid. I sense from you the cynicism of many others. I do not lack prespective,
      quite the opposite. I painfully see.

      I'm so sorry you feel so failed by your church, and 'christians' that you are
      turning your back on God. I'm very sorry. I really really am. I sincerely hope
      it is something you can develop through. It is not an intellectual issue you
      have with God, it is an emotional one.

      Good luck to you. I'm up for discussion, but I don't think you are. May I pray
      for you ?

      Richard

      ________________________________
      From: kaylee coats <sumluvlifilth@...>
      To: deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sat, September 11, 2010 5:47:31 PM
      Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Hi

      No, it takes a lot more than that to offend me. Again, to help you with some
      perspective, hating something you don't believe in is completely pointless. It'd


      be like you being angry at Zeus or Athena because you didn't believe in them.

      ________________________________
      From: praesto12 <Praesto12@...>
      To: deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sat, September 11, 2010 12:50:39 PM
      Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Hi

      I don't know if it's proselytizing if they are thinking about leaving the
      family/
      I believe you guys can kick me out of your "I hate God because I don't believe
      in him" group ?

      kaylee I'm just simply trying to talk to you via email. If I offended you then I


      apologize.

      I really really sense in you a frustration that I have too, which is Church
      people pretending to be "Christians" who hate people simply for the sake of
      hating them. I truly believe that atheism has nothing to offer you personally,
      intellectually, and spiritually.

      I'm not just talking about my own experiences here. You can look at the lives
      of the most impactful Atheistic writers, from Darwin, Virigina wolf,
      Rand,Freud,Marx, Nietszche, Sartre, Camus extc. and see that the further one
      moves away from God the more despairing he/she becomes. Again, I was not raised
      a Christian, I'm just reading the writing on the wall. Atheism fails. When all
      the bitterness and self righteousness fades Atheist are left with nothing. If
      someone wants to drink poision then I will try not to let them, but the truth is


      that ideas can be more destructive than poision. Atheism, darwinism, communism
      extc are worse than poision. Poision can only kill the body of the person taking


      it. "Bad ideas" in the hands of the wrong people can take over entire countries
      and lead to the death of millions.

      ________________________________
      From: bestonnet_00 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
      To: deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sat, September 11, 2010 12:12:43 PM
      Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Hi

      We've had debates with him months ago.

      --- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, kaylee coats <sumluvlifilth@...> wrote:
      >
      > Has he been doing this for awhile?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Clint <cy2600@...>
      > To: deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sat, September 11, 2010 7:50:59 AM
      > Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Hi
      >
      >
      > Are you still proselytizing people? Jeebus fucking krist.
      >
      > praesto12 wrote:
      > > Wow, I can really relate to what you are saying. I have to tell you though
      > > before we communicate anymore that I am not an Atheist. I was. I actually
      > > started off as an Atheist and became a Christian. I'm not a good one, but I
      > > try. I want to tell you that so that you don't feel that I'm trying to trick


      > > you. I come to these groups seeking debates and discussions.
      > >
      > >
      > > Evil is everywhere isn't it? And Hell does seem so intense doesn't it? It
      >seems
      >
      > >
      > > so unfair and brutal. Here's the thing though , you may not like it, you may


      > > feel anger at God, you may think that your thinking on the issue is "more
      >fair"
      >
      > >
      > > but it's not really your place, and really God does not like it either. I
      > > don't think God likes to execute judgement on anyone. In fact I think he'd
      > > rather die a horrible death then see evil people be judged. That's the whole


      > > point of the cross.
      > >
      > > Check out Ezekiel 33:11. However I don't know how God can be righteous and
      > > not execute judgement on evil? Would you want a god like that? I hate evil
      > > personally. Read proverbs 8:13. I hate murderers, rapist, child molesters,
      > > death, abuse, all of it. I hate it with every bit of my soul and I will die
      > > fighting evil in anyway I can! But if there is no God, then there is no
      > > objective moral law. What I mean by that is w/o god morality is just a matter
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > >of
      > >
      > > choice. So the child molester is "right" because there is no moral standard
      >to
      >
      >
      > > compare him to. I don't agree with that. Evil is real. It is outside of me,
      >it
      >
      >
      > > is in me, and it is aware of what it's doing. To someone that believes in
      > > evolution evil is not real. It can't be. We are simply over articulate
      >monkies
      >
      >
      > > floating in an absurd abyss of despair and nothigness. Why would it matter if
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >a
      >
      > >
      > > person kills a child, if the can get away with it? Because it's wrong? In a
      > > Darwinist world view, it is not. Nothing is right or wrong. If anything the
      > >more
      > >
      > > you can get for yourself the better off you are. Don't let your heart grow
      > > bitter.
      > >
      > >
      > > I'm sorry i dont' want to bog you down with a long email, but there's a lot
      >to
      >
      >
      > > be said. Ultimately I will say this. Rejecting God will not get you anywhere.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > >
      > > Maybe you are not meant to become an Atheist, maybe you are meant to find
      > > different Christian to be around?
      > >
      > > I am sorry that your church and many churches do not try to talk to you
      > > intelligently or respectfully. maybe that's why you and I have begun talking?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > > Read some C.S. Lewis, or Ravi Zacharias, or G.k. Chesterson. We can talk
      >about
      >
      >
      > > what you see as "conflicting" in the Bible.
      > >
      > >
      > > I also think that your issues with God are emotional, not intellectual. I
      > >think
      > >
      > > even if you find answers to all of your questions that you will still feel
      > > anger at God. I don't know why exactly. Do you feel like God is making people
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > > gay so that he can send them to hell? I have really thought the same thing
      > > before. But that's not the God of the Bible. I think being gay is about like


      >a
      >
      >
      > > straight guy that sleeps with a lot of women. Both are situations that may
      > > be how we are born. May be. ... but simply because I am born a certain
      >way(even
      >
      > >
      > > if that is the case) my being born a certain way does not allow me to act on


      >my
      >
      > >
      > > biological impulses. The rapist, or child molestar could make the same
      > >argument.
      > >
      > > I was born with....whatever...therefor I can ...whatever. I have a lot of
      > > compassion for gay people. I really really do. I think most have had some
      >sort
      >
      >
      > > of issue with a parent. God is not gunning for gay people. God is not trying


      >to
      >
      > >
      > > set people up to be knocked down. Consider the women at the well. She had 5
      > > husbands, she was not a jew, she really didn't have anything going for her.
      > > Read the gospel of John 4:1 -42. She was the lowest of the low , just like
      > > many "religious" people would say about gays, but here you have the son of
      >the
      >
      >
      > > creator of the whole universe, a perfect person, absolutely holy talking to
      > >this
      > >
      > > social reject.
      > >
      > >
      > > anyhow, we can discuss more. good luck.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      >

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    • Richard Godwin
      First, I didn t deny your Table of Nations. What I did say is that it is borrowed from Sumerian sources previously, and I indicated there is nothing special
      Message 202 of 202 , Sep 27, 2010
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        First, I didn't deny your Table of Nations. What I did say is that it is
        borrowed from Sumerian sources previously, and I indicated there is nothing
        special about genealogy as it is ubiquitous in religions. What do you think
        is significant about it? I don't see a statement of that from you. I don't
        see how logic is involved in this. Reason is, but not logic. Now: please
        state what you think is the significance of this Table of Nations or
        genealogy.

        As to the DH, I already said Wellhausen's original view is roundly revised
        by all scholars, or we might say "honed." And I think you should have
        Wesselius in mind, but that doesn't matter. So you don't think "it will go
        the way" I think? How is that? Go what way? You surely need to explain
        that. Where do you see I am not open-minded, or is that just a technique you
        make for diversion? If you think my comments are rhetorical, please explain
        why specifically, i.e. in regard to what?

        I suggest you state your view, and if you wish you can respond to my
        comments. The questions are to bring out from you what you think it means
        and how you explain it in the process of scholarship. Or do you stop with
        Wellhausen? Just let me know.

        You brought it up: the DH. So don't excuse yourself by trying to put some
        ad hominem on me. That's both silly and completely unprofessional. I did
        get to the point, but evidently you can't see it. My opinion is that I do
        accept the DH so long as it is revised to be open to variations in the
        authorship of the various authors and to be for the Primary History rather
        than the Pentateuch, and that the dates of composition are second temple
        times, contrary to most of the DH'ers (although Freedman did admit this for
        most of the authors).

        You brought it up, so evidently you have your definition of the DH in mind:
        Please tell me what is your definition. Don't put the onus on me, because
        it's your topic. Then I'll respond to that. I am not a "fan" of
        Wellhausen, and neither is any other scholar, since his concept has been
        revised.

        Your ad hominems against me have no relevance here. I suggest those remarks
        you make are only for cover up of something? What would that be?

        So please present your concept of the DH and your arguments. Perhaps I just
        jumped the gun on you. Let's begin again, and this time with YOU.

        All right?

        Rick/





        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "praesto12" <Praesto12@...>
        To: <deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 1:30 PM
        Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Scholarship.


        My time here is whatever it is Godwin. And I am not your friend. You've
        ignored
        the table of nations, make a ridiculous claim and do nothing to back it
        up. Geneology is not a borrowed motif, nor is the history narrative it caste
        upon mankind. Pay attention before you try to communicate. I readily admit
        my
        limitations in understanding the totality of scripture, as anyone should .
        I'm
        not the one that makes claims like " I read it all" therefor I know
        everything
        about it like you guys. I'm sorry, it's imply impossible. It's an illogical
        statement. to make. And yet, you guys make it frequently throwing logic out
        the
        window. Y'all tend to hide behind your claims of logic, protecting a
        wounded heart. I digress.


        I'd love to go into Wellhausen, and as I've said if I dont know then I don't
        know, but I want to discuss this further. I don't think it will go the way
        you
        think however. I don't see you as being open minded either, so perhaps these
        comments are rhetorical. You brought up many questions. Is there a specif
        one or
        a few that you would like to discuss? Or where you just trying to be a
        know-it-all prick and throw a bunch of question into one email. As I've said
        before get to the point. Let me make is simpler for you.


        Do you follow the Documentary Hypothesis?

        Pra: Define as you deem fit.

        What
        are
        your opinions on the matter?

        Pra: opinions and ideas, if there are specific terms you want to discuss
        then we
        can.


        Are you a fan of wellhausen.

        I'll elaborate more specifically for you. What scholarship do you buy into
        in
        regards to either the Tanakh or New Testament? What academic garbage do you
        readily ingest to support your wacked out ideas?









        ________________________________
        From: Richard Godwin <meta@...>
        To: deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, September 21, 2010 10:43:17 PM
        Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Scholarship.


        I think your time here is short, my friend. I already agreed to discuss
        something in the Bible. Didn't you see that. What time periods do you think
        its parts were composed? for example. Something else of or in the Bible?
        You got nowhere with your Table of Nations, a motif borrowed from other
        societies. I suggest you are the one who doesn't understand the Bible. So
        show me you do.

        "Godwin, simple question . Do you follow the Documentary Hypothesis? What
        are
        your opinions on the matter? Are you a fan of wellhausen?"

        AhHa, now there's something substantive from you. Very good, and we can
        discuss that. My answer depends on what one calls the DH. Wellhausen, as
        you should know, has been surpassed, so we don't need to discuss his
        introductionary theory (Jan-Wim Wesselius, right?). Do you agree? Let's to
        Friedman and Freedman. So you need to give us a definition of it, and tell
        me if it requires the Penteuch, or the Primary History to which it evolved,
        and will it require Friedman's dating? Or as revised in Freedman's dating?
        Does it have to be 4 sources, or can it be less? Do you accept
        archaeological evidence? Shall we consider Berossus and Manetho for
        collateral information? Will you accept the relevance of the Copenhagens
        (Thompson, Lemche, Whitfield), and Peter Davies of Sheffield?

        I suppose you are aware of Friedman's explanation in "Who Wrote the Bible",
        right? And you know of his own revision of that. And your know Freedman's
        revision. Right. So go with it. I await your full definition and
        description, as well as dating. I warn you: I am a revisionist (but in a
        different application than afore mentioned).

        I await your response.

        Rick

        Sent: Tue, September 21, 2010 11:29:07 AM
        Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Hi

        I'm ready for you on the Bible. Are you ready? But not the preachy stuff.
        Let's get down to the intellectual stuff. Also early Christian history, if
        you wish. Also different Christologies in the NT, if you wish.

        Rick

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "praesto12" <Praesto12@...>
        To: <deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 10:35 PM
        Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Hi

        I do generally think that you guys lack knowledge about the Bible, Christ
        and
        the Church. For many reasons. I also think this about myself. It's not an
        insult, but yes I do believe that.

        Richard
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