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Flawed Logic

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  • wolfray@ymail.com
    This will probably be my last post to this group. I appreciate all of the response from you all. I don t happen to believe a word you say, but that s ok. I
    Message 1 of 3 , Aug 15, 2009
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      This will probably be my last post to this group. I appreciate all of the response from you all. I don't happen to believe a word you say, but that's ok. I knew exactly what kind of response I would get. Your message is worn out. It's the same old psyco mumbo jumbo.

      All of the responses I received were deny, deny, deny, anger, anger, anger, hate, hate, hate. Not one single shred of evidence to prove your point. All I hear is the Bible is full of contradictions, it all a hoax, no empty tomb, can't be a resurrection because is doesn't conform to natural law and on and on.

      You deny there is a God because you can't see it, feel it or understand it or it doesn't conform to your preconceived world. So let's use that same logic about past history. Back in the day when people thought that the earth was flat, if someone came and said the earth was round, your logic would be that it is a hoax, it can't be because it doesn't conform to natural law. What about space travel, invention of the internal combustion engine, television, cell phone, computer. In all of those cases you would be proven wrong. You see to deny that something does not exist or can't or didn't happen you must also be able to prove that claim by evidence. To prove that something does not exist or can't happen is much more difficult than proving that something does exist. To prove that God doesn't exist you would need to know everything about God. Since you claim there is no God, how can you possibly know everything about him to prove he does not exist.

      Final statement: If I'm wrong and you are right what have I lost. an argument. So I would have evolved from a pile of goo and had my 70-80 years on this broken earth and then back to the earth to let the worms eat me. Yummy!! HOWEVER, IF I'M RIGHT AND YOUR WRONG WHAT HAVE YOU LOST? EVERYTHING!!!

      May God Open your eyes to the truth, God fearing christian.
    • Richard Godwin
      Sorry you re leaving, but while I am not an atheist, and consider myself to be a Christian, I believe it is your message that is worn out. Certainly I have no
      Message 2 of 3 , Aug 17, 2009
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        Sorry you're leaving, but while I am not an atheist, and consider myself to
        be a Christian, I believe it is your message that is worn out.

        Certainly I have no anger or hate, and my arguments were based entirely on
        evidence and good reasoning. Your "message" has caused you to be paranoid
        from interaction with others who do not share your view. You claim I
        presented no evidence against your view that archaeology supports your view
        of the Bible. That's true, but I asked you for YOUR evidence for your view,
        since it was you who made the claim. I would be happy to present to you
        enough evidence to take up a few pages of space here, that archaeology not
        only doesn't support biblical history, but in many cases shows biblical
        history to be wrong. But the first burden to show evidence was on you,
        because you made the claim.

        There are plenty of cases of contradictions in the Bible, you could call
        discrepancies if you wish. One that came up in another forum, briefly is:
        a. Paul went to Damascus, b. Paul did not go to Damascus. There are many
        more. The empty tomb story, as well as virgin birth of Jesus, are very
        questionable, and seem to be very late theories, after Mark, but in time for
        Matthew and Luke. Don't you think Paul would have said something about
        these seemingly very important items? Paul did know the resurrection and
        ascension stories.

        I don't deny there is a God. I affirm that. You refer to logic in regard
        to changes in scientific theories. This is not logic. It is the on-going
        process of science, results of later discoveries, and this happens all the
        time. The passage from Newtonian physics to Einsteinian physics, for the
        ultimates of reality, was difficult and painful for some, but eventually all
        scientists were convinced by the evidence. That's just the way science
        goes: continually self-correcting. Space travel follows Newtonian physics,
        as well as the others. Discoveries and inventions occur all the time, and
        we are used to it. The difference between these and your theories, is the
        matter of good evidence. For example, if Jesus had brought Lazarus back to
        life from death, then that should be replicable, but it never has been
        repeated. All those things you mentioned, accomplishments of science, do
        have proof.

        You ask for evidence for a claim of a negative. If you knew something about
        logic and philosophy or science, you would know that a negative cannot be
        proven. Prove to me that Santa Claus doesn't exist, or that Satan didn't
        create the universe, or that an elephant doesn't hold up the universe, or
        that fairies don't exist.

        I don't think anyone here, certainly not myself, entertains the thought it
        can be proven that God does not exist. It can't be done, because it's a
        negative claim. The claim there is no simply means there is no evidence
        there is a God. No one can prove God does not exist.

        So you bring up Pascal's argument, the one he made in jest. Fine, and if it
        happens that the true God is Brahman, and future life depends on karma
        through samsara, for reincarnation, then you missed out on bettering
        yourself, perhaps becoming a mouse. Or if Allah is the true God then you go
        to hell because of your polygamy, which denies the most important maxim in
        Islam, that God is One God.

        There's no use in your getting all worked up on this. We just have ideas
        different from yours. Take it like a man (if you are a man).

        Richard.




        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <wolfray@...>
        To: <deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 7:59 PM
        Subject: [Death To Religion] Flawed Logic


        > This will probably be my last post to this group. I appreciate all of the
        > response from you all. I don't happen to believe a word you say, but
        > that's ok. I knew exactly what kind of response I would get. Your message
        > is worn out. It's the same old psyco mumbo jumbo.
        >
        > All of the responses I received were deny, deny, deny, anger, anger,
        > anger, hate, hate, hate. Not one single shred of evidence to prove your
        > point. All I hear is the Bible is full of contradictions, it all a hoax,
        > no empty tomb, can't be a resurrection because is doesn't conform to
        > natural law and on and on.
        >
        > You deny there is a God because you can't see it, feel it or understand it
        > or it doesn't conform to your preconceived world. So let's use that same
        > logic about past history. Back in the day when people thought that the
        > earth was flat, if someone came and said the earth was round, your logic
        > would be that it is a hoax, it can't be because it doesn't conform to
        > natural law. What about space travel, invention of the internal combustion
        > engine, television, cell phone, computer. In all of those cases you would
        > be proven wrong. You see to deny that something does not exist or can't or
        > didn't happen you must also be able to prove that claim by evidence. To
        > prove that something does not exist or can't happen is much more difficult
        > than proving that something does exist. To prove that God doesn't exist
        > you would need to know everything about God. Since you claim there is no
        > God, how can you possibly know everything about him to prove he does not
        > exist.
        >
        > Final statement: If I'm wrong and you are right what have I lost. an
        > argument. So I would have evolved from a pile of goo and had my 70-80
        > years on this broken earth and then back to the earth to let the worms eat
        > me. Yummy!! HOWEVER, IF I'M RIGHT AND YOUR WRONG WHAT HAVE YOU LOST?
        > EVERYTHING!!!
        >
        > May God Open your eyes to the truth, God fearing christian.
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Clint
        ... Makes you wonder why you even came here in the first place. ... Well if that ain t the pot calling the kettle black. ... It is. Theologins (sp?) who have
        Message 3 of 3 , Aug 20, 2009
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          wolfray@... wrote:
          > I knew exactly what kind of response I would get.

          Makes you wonder why you even came here in the first place.

          > Your message is worn out. It's the same old psyco mumbo jumbo.
          >
          > All of the responses I received were deny, deny, deny, anger, anger, anger, hate, hate, hate. Not one single shred of evidence to prove your point.

          Well if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black.

          > All I hear is the Bible is full of contradictions

          It is. Theologins (sp?) who have studied the bible and everything
          surrounding it for practically all of their life will tell you this. I'm
          pretty confident they know more than you, some internet schlub trolling
          the atheist groups looking for answers he already knows he's going to get.

          > You deny there is a God because you can't see it, feel it or understand it or it doesn't conform to your preconceived world.

          I deny YOUR god, whatever it is.

          > HOWEVER, IF I'M RIGHT AND YOUR WRONG WHAT HAVE YOU LOST? EVERYTHING!!!

          My life wouldn't change a bit. If a god does exist, so what? I'll still
          get up, go to work, come home, watch tv, play some video games, visit
          with friends and family, etc. etc. I'm a good person despite there being
          a guy up in the sky or not. Nothing changes. The only person that loses
          out is someone like you.
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