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Re: [Death To Religion] (unknown)

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  • Richard Godwin
    And as Napoleon said: Napoleon, god always fights on the side of the bigger battalions . Richard. ... From: KIRK SCHWIEBERT To:
    Message 1 of 273 , Jan 11, 2009
      And as Napoleon said: "Napoleon, 'god always fights on the side of the
      bigger battalions'."


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "KIRK SCHWIEBERT" <schwbert_98@...>
      To: <deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 8:21 AM
      Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] (unknown)

      I agree with the writer. Religion has also provided a sense of community and
      fellowship which is hard to replace with some other system. I think many
      worshipers may be agnostic or even atheist but they get some comfort and
      satisfaction from being part of a greater whole. Communism was an attempt to
      replace the church with the state. To replace worship of an abstract god
      with an abstract idea. I do not agree that without some theistic organized
      religion we are stuck with the only option being communism. In Japan for
      example we have something like an ancestor cult. There is no god, in the
      western sense, but the system provides the same benefits as western
      religions do, without most of the negatives. That system was corrupted too,
      in the 1930's-40's, so it has its own weaknesses, but it lacks the
      exclusion, one-upsmanship, threats of hell and damnation, and dehumanization
      of non believers that western religions have.

      Seneca the Younger 4 b.c.- 65 a.d.-Religion is regarded by the common
      people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
      Napoleon Bonaparte-Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people
      H. L. Mencken-I believe that religion, generally speaking, has been a curse
      to mankind--that its modest and greatly overestimated services on the
      ethical side have been more than overcome by the damage it has done to
      clear and honest thinking.

      Thomas Jefferson, 1823-The day will come when the mystical generation of
      Jesus.will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the
      brain of Jupiter.

      Benito Il DUCA Mussolini-Religion is man-made to assist in controlling the
      weak minded individuals because during times of atrocity and despair they
      feel strength in numbers.
      Napolean Bonaparte-There must be Religion. Otherwise the poor would murder
      the rich.
      John Kelly Ireland-God is my shepherd: - Only sheep need a shepherd.

      --- On Fri, 1/9/09, Jack Musser <gladflyweather@...> wrote:

      From: Jack Musser <gladflyweather@...>
      Subject: [Death To Religion] (unknown)
      To: deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 11:51 AM

      Maybe, you will pay a little more attention to the opinion of an agnostic
      has written a ten volume study of civilization. Will Durant in his Lessons
      of History wrote

      Even the skeptical historian develops a humble respect for religion, since
      sees it functioning and seemingly indispensable, in every land and age. To
      the unhappy, the suffering, the bereaved, the old, it has brought
      comforts valued by millions of souls as more precious than any natural aid.
      has helped parents and teachers to discipline the young. It has conferred
      meaning and dignity upon the lowliest existence and through its sacraments
      made for stability by transforming human covenants into solemn relationships
      with God. It has kept the poor (said Napoleon) from murdering the rich.
      For since the natural inequality of men dooms many of us to poverty or
      some supernatural hope may be the sole alternative to despair. Destroy that
      hope, and class war is intensified. Heaven and utopia are buckets in a well:
      when one goes down the other goes up; when religion declines Communism
      P. 43

      Religion does not seem at first to have had any connection with morals.
      Apparently (for we are merely guessing, or echoing Petronius, who echoed
      Lucretius) "it was fear that first made the gods" 25-fear of hidden forces
      in the earth. Religion became the propitiatory worship of these forces
      offerings, sacrifice, incantation, and prayer. Only when priests used these
      fears and rituals to support morality and law did religion become a force
      and rival to the state. It told the people that the local code of morals and
      laws had been dictated by the gods. It pictured the god Thoth giving laws to
      Menes for Egypt, Shamash giving Hammurabi a code for Babylonia, Yahveh
      the Ten Commandments and 613 precepts to Moses for the Jews, and the divine
      nymph Egeria giving Numa Pompilius laws fro Rome. Pagan cults and Christian
      creeds proclaimed that earthly rulers were appointed and protected by the
      gods. Gratefully, nearly ever
      state shared its lands and revenues with the priests. P 43-4

      Some recusants have doubted that religion ever promoted morality, since
      immorality has flourished even in ages of religious domination. Certainly
      sensuality, drunkenness, coarseness, greed, dishonesty, robbery, and
      existed in the Middle Ages; but probably the moral disorder born of half a
      millennium of barbarian invasion, war, economic devastation, and political
      disorganization would have been much worse without the moderating effect of
      Christian ethic, priestly exhortations, saintly exemplars, and a calming,
      unifying ritual. The Roman Catholic Church labored to reduce slavery, family
      feuds, and national strife, to extend the intervals of truce and peace, and
      replace trial by combat or ordeal with the judgments of established courts.
      softened the penalties exacted by Roman or barbarian law, and vastly
      the scope and organization of charity.p. 44

      In regard to his statement about religion and utopias, he suggests that when
      religion wains, men look to utopia ideas, e.g., communisim.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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    • Clint
      ... So sayeth the xian to the atheist in an atheist group, Begone infidel!
      Message 273 of 273 , Feb 26, 2010
        Richard Godwin wrote:
        > Again, give it up and go peddle your wares elsewhere.

        So sayeth the xian to the atheist in an atheist group, Begone infidel!
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