[Death To Religion] Re: New Group wanting members about evolution:
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, a a <Praesto12@...> wrote:
>I find it hard to avoid when arguing with a fool.
> I do like to discuss ideas, I do however think that debates turn
> into ad homenium attacks too easily however.
> In any case, again I stated that Communism, which is a world-view,No, but neither does liberalism or democracy or conservatism.
> does not engage or acknowledge the exsistence of God or a God of
> any kind.
> So, Communism-depending on futher definition-does not maintain aIn much the same way as any other political system.
> theos, Communist may, but in spite of being Communist, not because
> "Beside there isn't a good reason to believe in a God anyways." IDo you have any evidence for the existence of a god? If you don't
> really wonder how much thought you 've given that statement, if
have any evidence then I am fully justified not to believe (in fact
the rules of logic pretty much require it).
> Hitler believed in the "purity of the races" becasue some racesYet no one has ever actually provided any good evidence for that.
> were "better " or "stronger."
> You simply don't know your history if you believe that Hitler wasNo, I simply realise that Hitler got his ideas from the bible.
> not influenced by Nietzsche or Darwin.
There may have been people who read Nietzsche or Darwin that
influenced Hitler but any influence was not direct (Nietzsche was not
a nationalist nor was he an anti-Semite whilst Hitler was both and
Hitler's belief about racial superiority was based on purity of
bloodlines which doesn't make any damn sense in Darwinian theory
(though it is in the straw man version of evolution that you seem to
Herbert Spencer's social 'darwinism' is related in name only to
natural selection and Hitler did express some ideas from it though you
won't find too many people who actually think it was a good idea.
> I can't help you if you're chosing to be ignorant, but if youThe belief that Hitler was anything other than a Christian without
> really want to know the truth then do your research.
knowledge of Darwinian theory and with beliefs almost directly
opposite Nietzsche is a good sign of ignorance.
> Then you go to say that "we do not have to follow nature." To meNot at all.
> this is a bit strange if you're coming from a naturalistic
The standpoint you are coming from is one of intrinsic purpose in
which the universe is moral but a naturalistic standpoint is that of a
no intrinsic purpose and an amoral universe that doesn't care if we
live or die (and which may have an asteroid heading our way right now).
If we don't like the way nature does something then it is in principle
possible to change (look at what we've done to the world already).
> Which countries do you believe have "accepted" evolutionism, andPretty much all of Western Europe has vast majority acceptance of
> are more peaceful? Eastern Europe, Nazi Germany,Stalinish Russia,
> China? What are you going for with that statement? It doesn't make
> sense, with respect to reality or history.
evolution along with lower crime rates than the US.
Stalinist Russia certainly did not accept evolution though, you might
want to read up a little on Lysenkoism to see the consequences of not
accepting evolution (mass famine come to mind?).
> Who said anything about worshipping an "evil God."An all powerful and all knowing god who would use a process like
evolution that relies on suffering and death would be evil.
> I see no more evil force than believing that morality is just "madeThat just so happens to be the way the world really is. Denying
> up" by culture and that Purpose,love,meaning,hope,faith,
> rationality and doing what is right is simply a result of a cosmic
reality tends to result in bad things happening (the problems with
communism do largely come down to exactly that).
Morality is something that we have to come up with on our own (even if
there were a god it would still require us to judge whether it is
moral and for that we need to have a human developed morality) with
purpose and meaning being that which we come up with ourselves.
Morality does seem to have some biological basis as a way of enhancing
survival by allowing humans to work together and love is a feeling
that comes from the brain.
If we want hope we need to have something to hope for, faith isn't
something we should want to have though.
> Your world view of Evolutionism is evil.No, it is merely true.
Science is not about good or evil but true or false whilst you seem to
be arguing otherwise.
> God, of the Bible, is not.Have you actually read it?
The God referred to in that document is a genocidal maniac.
> Maybe you simply feel angry at God?I don't feel angry about Santa Claus, why should I feel angry about
any other fictional character?
> Hey man, I'm very willing and really really desire to acceptWhat other epistemology's matter? Religion, politics, lit crit, etc
> scientific fact, though that is not the only epistomology that
haven't exactly shown themselves able to explain the world, when
history works out it is usually because the historians are following a
very scientific approach.
> but Science does not support Macro evolution,Because there is no such thing as macro-evolution and micro-evolution,
there is just evolution which varies in scale from small changes right
up to speciation.
> and truly it emprically can't.A quite look around talkorigins will show otherwise.
That which you call macro-evolution far from being impossible to prove
has in fact been shown to happen in the lab.
> Science supports Creationism,No it doesn't.
Even old-Earth creationalism is nonsense (though it is less
nonsensical than YEC).
> if anything, though the line between philosophy,religion, science,I see no need to bother with religion, it was our first attempt at
> and history needs to be established.
understanding the world, providing a moral code, providing a purpose
for life and eliminating death but it was also a bad attempt and we've
managed to do better at all of those things without religion.
> Stay with one point and let's discuss it. If you have a question orThe only thing from you that appears to have any value was the
> something of philosophical or scientific value then discuss it.
objection to truth based on it being 'evil', whilst it doesn't
actually contribute anything to reality it does show some insight into
your thinking processes and that of people like you.
- May I suggest you put down the joint, wait a while, and then write.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin Kolata" <justink@...>
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:53 AM
Subject: RE: [Death To Religion] Re: New Group wanting members about
Dawkins says it best...
"It is absolutely safe to say that, if you meet somebody who claims not to
believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid or insane (or wicked,
but I'd rather not consider that)."
[mailto:email@example.com]On Behalf Of a a
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Re: New Group wanting members about
No, my friend, you are speaking out of ignorance. First of all, Communism
does not believe in a God, so what is, in general, the only other option for
the creation of man? Evolutionism. In addition Nietzsche was heavily
influenced by Darwin, and Nietzsche strongly influenced
Hitler(superman/nazism) who also influence Mussolini. Look up your
First, let's just take dictionary.com
// ", "6");
Audio Help /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled
Pronunciation[ri-lij-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the
universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or
agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often
containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
Well, we've already discussed the moral ramification of an Evolutionary
worldview( and all the murder it leads into) so let's see, beliefs
concerning the cause, macro-evolutionism ascribes, poorly i might add, to
the idea of a cosmic burp(big bang) so you got that going, next in the
evolutionary religion, one generally believes life is purposeless and many
state so; Existentialism, and you certainly believe in a superhuman agency
of somekind, though I'm not sure what other than choas in the creation of
everything so, yes, Evolutionism is a religion. This is too easy.
2nd, I'm not supporting communism so I have no response to that, however
if someone kills in the name of Christ it is against his message. If someone
kills in the name of "survival of the fittest" then it is for it's message.
Hitler used members of the Catholic Church in order to support his
pagan/evolutionary ideas but in practice or in theory he was not Christian.
Try again. Come on guys, give me some intelligent discussion.
Lastly, Talkorigins is a joke. I want your ideas not some lame website.
Anyhow, Evolution is an idol. People have created it as an idol in order
to avoid facing the reality that there is a God that will Judge us when we
die. Humans are too proud, generally, to admit that they are wrong so they
hang on to outdated illusions like Evolutionism. I see your talkorigins, and
I seen other sites and they all fail to see the forest for the trees.
Why reject Jesus?
--- In deathtoreligion@ yahoogroups. com, a a <Praesto12@. ..> wrote:
> Guys, evolution, as the religion it is, has not won anything,
> expect for being a leading idealogy in the killing of millions of
> people. In all due respect, why would anyone *believe in the
> religion of Evolution? And by that term what are you guys referring
You are an idiot.
First of all evolution is not a religion.
Second, evolution has not been an ideology involved in the killing of
millions of people, Christianity and communism on the other hand...
Remember that Adolf Hitler was a Christian and Joesph Stalin a
communist who supported Lysenko.
Third, there are very good reasons to believe that evolution happened.
http://www.talkorig ins.org/faqs/ faq-misconceptio ns.html#observe
http://www.talkorig ins.org/faqs/ comdesc/
http://www.talkorig ins.org/faqs/ jury-rigged. html
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