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Re: [Death To Religion] Hello.

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  • a a
    In regards to the name of your group, how do you guys define religion, what do you mean when you use this word? ... === message truncated ===
    Message 1 of 21 , Sep 24, 2006
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      In regards to the name of your group, how do you guys
      define religion, what do you mean when you use this
      word?

      --- "Dr. Newton Joseph" <drnjoseph@...>
      wrote:

      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "richard godwin" <meta@...>
      > To: <deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 1:11 PM
      > Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Hello.
      >
      >
      > > Easy answer. Debate the reality to which the myth
      > refers, from
      > > imagination,
      > > to thinking and reasoning. What myths point to.
      > >
      > > Richard.
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > COOKIE CUTTER CHRIST'S
      >
      > New 10.
      >
      >
      >
      > Let me put something out there to ponder regarding
      > Jesus Christ -
      > WHO WAS HE?
      > - He was born of the virgin Maya, who was
      > considered the "Queen of Heaven.
      > He was of royal descent.
      > He crushed a serpent's head.
      > - He performed miracles and wonders, healed the
      > sick, fed 500 men from a
      > "small basket of cakes," and walked on water.
      > - He abolished idolatry, was a "sower of the word,"
      > and preached "the
      > establishment of a kingdom of righteousness."
      > - He taught chastity, temperance, tolerance,
      > compassion, love, and the
      > equality of all.
      > - He was transfigured on a mount.
      >
      > - He was crucified in a sin-atonement, suffered for
      > three days in hell, and
      > was resurrected.
      > - He ascended to "heaven."
      > HE WAS...BUDDHA
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > WHO WAS HE?
      > He contributed the name of Jesus Christ. He and his
      > once-and-future
      > Father, are frequently interchangeable in the mythos
      > ("I and my Father are
      > one").
      > - He was born of the virgin Meri on December 25th in
      > a cave/manger, with his
      > birth being announced by a star in the East and
      > attended by three wise men.
      > - He was a child teacher in the Temple and was
      > baptized when he was 30 years
      > old. He was also baptized by "Anup the Baptizer,"
      > who becomes "John the
      > Baptist."
      > - He had 12 disciples.
      >
      > - He performed miracles and raised one man,
      > el-Azar-us, from the dead.
      >
      > - He walked on water.
      >
      > - He was transfigured on the Mount.
      >
      > - He was crucified, buried in a tomb and
      > resurrected.
      >
      > - He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light, the
      > Messiah, God's Anointed
      > Son, the Son of Man, the Good Shepherd, the Lamb of
      > God, the Word" etc.
      > - He was "the Fisher," and was associated with the
      > Lamb, Lion and Fish.
      >
      > - His personal epithet was "Iusa," the
      > "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the
      > "Father."
      > - HE was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One," long
      > before the Christians
      > duplicated the story.
      > - In the catacombs at Rome are pictures of Him as a
      > baby being held by his
      > virgin mother.
      > HE WAS... the Egyptian God HORUS
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > (The ancient Egyptians also adopted the cross as a
      > religious symbol of
      > their pagan gods. Countless Egyptians drawings
      > depict themselves holding
      > crosses in their hands. Among them, the Egyptian
      > savior Horus is depicted
      > holding a cross in his hand. He is also depicted as
      > an infant sitting on his
      > mother's knee with a cross on the seat they occupy.
      > The most common of the
      > crosses used by these pagan Egyptians, the crux
      > ansata, was later adopted by
      > the Christians)
      >
      > WHO WAS HE?
      > - He was born on December 25th
      > - He was considered a great traveling teacher and
      > master.
      >
      > - He had 12 companions or disciples.
      >
      > - He performed miracles.
      >
      > - He was buried in a tomb.
      >
      > - After three days he rose again.
      >
      > - His resurrection was celebrated every year.
      >
      > - He was called "the Good Shepherd."
      >
      > - He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the
      > Light, the Redeemer, the
      > Savior, the Messiah."
      > - He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
      >
      > - His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day,"
      > hundreds of years before the
      > appearance of Christ.
      > - He had his principal festival on what was later to
      > become Easter, at which
      > time he was resurrected.
      > - His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."
      > HE WAS... MITHRA
      > "He who will not eat of my body and drink of my
      > blood, so that he will be
      > made on with me and I with him, the same shall not
      > know salvation." An
      > inscription to Mithras which parallels John 6:53-54.
      > This inscription is
      > inside the Vatican... in the tomb of saint peter.)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > WHO WAS HE?
      > Born of a Virgin
      > His father was a carpenter.
      > His birth was attended by angels, wise men and
      > shepherds, and he was
      > presented with gold, frankincense and myrrh.
      > - He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the
      > slaughter of thousands of
      > infants. He was of royal descent.
      >
      > - He was baptized in a river.
      >
      > - He worked miracles and wonders.
      >
      > - He raised the dead and healed lepers, the deaf and
      > the blind.
      >
      > - He used parables to teach the people about charity
      > and love.
      >
      > - "He lived poor and he loved the poor."
      >
      > - He was transfigured in front of his disciples.
      >
      > - In some traditions he died on a tree or was
      > crucified between two thieves.
      >
      > - He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven.
      >
      > - He is called the "Shepherd God" and "Lord of
      > lords," and was considered
      > "the Redeemer, Firstborn, Sin Bearer, Liberator,
      > Universal Word."
      > - He is the second person of the Trinity, and
      > proclaimed himself the
      > "Resurrection" and the "way to the Father."
      > - He was considered the "Beginning, the Middle and
      > the End," ("Alpha and
      > Omega"), as well as being omniscient, omnipresent
      > and omnipotent. - His
      > disciples bestowed upon him the title "Jezeus,"
      > meaning "pure essence."
      > - He is to return to do battle with the "Prince of
      > Evil,"
      === message truncated ===


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    • dantreble
      ... Here is additional info on that subject: http://www.thedevineevidence.com/jesus_similarities.html Dan
      Message 2 of 21 , Sep 24, 2006
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        --- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Newton Joseph"
        <drnjoseph@...> wrote:
        >
        > COOKIE CUTTER CHRIST'S
        >
        > New 10.
        >
        >
        >
        > Let me put something out there to ponder regarding Jesus Christ -

        -------------------------------------------------------------------
        Here is additional info on that subject:

        http://www.thedevineevidence.com/jesus_similarities.html

        Dan
      • a a
        I m up for reading links, but is there anything specifically you want me to respond to in this web address. What are specific questions you have? ...
        Message 3 of 21 , Sep 25, 2006
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          I'm up for reading links, but is there anything
          specifically you want me to respond to in this web
          address. What are specific questions you have?

          --- dantreble <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          > --- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Newton
          > Joseph"
          > <drnjoseph@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > COOKIE CUTTER CHRIST'S
          > >
          > > New 10.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Let me put something out there to ponder regarding
          > Jesus Christ -
          >
          >
          -------------------------------------------------------------------
          > Here is additional info on that subject:
          >
          >
          http://www.thedevineevidence.com/jesus_similarities.html
          >
          > Dan
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


          __________________________________________________
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        • a a
          Lord Damien, the reality of Christ is that if you look at the debates out there True Christians will show the intellectual inability of Atheism and often they
          Message 4 of 21 , Sep 25, 2006
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            Lord Damien, the reality of Christ is that if you look
            at the debates out there True Christians will show the
            intellectual inability of Atheism and often they will
            adequately defend the Faith, which we all should do.
            However, the deeper reality of Christ is that he's
            God. He pisses people off because he wants their minds
            and Hearts. Christ is pulling on your heart. Christ
            calls you to bare your cross, forgive those you must
            forgive, come to a place of love and hope and faith to
            a dying world and he calls you to give up whatever
            pettiness or pain you have. Few want to do that.

            When the intellectual inability of Atheism is shown
            then what is generally left is a hurt heart. Since I
            can not specifically help you address these issues of
            emotion and of soul I am left to discuss the ideas
            around Atheism and Chrisitainty. I just want to be
            challenged intellectually by Athiest, I'm not trying
            to insult you and I would hope that you would have the
            ability not to insult me.

            When you rant and rave about "cults" then I think
            you're missing the point and honestly I would refer
            you to the book "The kingdom of Cults" edited by Ravi
            Zacharias if you truly want to know what a cult is,
            what makes it different from a community devoted to
            god, and what is the basis of soooo many of these
            cults. I challenge you to challenge yourself and look
            up the matter.






            --- "Dr. Newton Joseph" <drnjoseph@...>
            wrote:

            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "lord damien" <lord_damien2002@...>
            > To: <deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 1:11 AM
            > Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Hello.
            >
            >
            > CHRISTIANITY AS A MENTAL
            > DISORDER
            >
            >
            > By New10
            >
            >
            > I often have said Christians are mentally disturbed
            > for their belief in a
            > chimera called Jesus. The most disturbed are those
            > that join cults. These
            > People join certain cults that best describes their
            > pathology. When in these
            > cults they lose their identity, they are given new
            > names. They are told what
            > to do and when they can do it, the cult hierarchy
            > has complete control over
            > these hapless victums.
            >
            > Just as Las Vegas has a gambling game to
            > fit the taste of every
            > gambler so to Christianity has a denomination that
            > will fit the taste of
            > every Christian. The pathology of the compulsive
            > gambler is that while
            > gambling they can shut out their contemporary
            > problems and is willing to
            > risk all of their money to do so. Those who remain
            > in the religion of their
            > families are also compulsive in their religion and
            > get their neurotic needs
            > met by familiarity as to not cause cognitive
            > dissonance. When, they find
            > their brand of religion no longer satisfies their
            > psychological needs they
            > will join a denomination that fits their particular
            > neurosis just as the
            > gamblers will find the game that satisfies their
            > neurosis. There are those
            > who can step back and examine their religion with
            > critical eyes for the
            > first time---even if they do suffer from cognitive
            > dissonance and can stay
            > with it long enough until the new information
            > becomes familiar, they will
            > discover the psychology of change. When religion
            > ceases to comfort one
            > intellectually and psychologically, they often
            > become atheists.
            >
            >
            >
            >


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          • a a
            Why do you think that Joseph? ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
            Message 5 of 21 , Sep 25, 2006
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              Why do you think that Joseph?

              --- "Dr. Newton Joseph" <drnjoseph@...>
              wrote:

              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "lord damien" <lord_damien2002@...>
              > To: <deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 1:11 AM
              > Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Hello.
              >
              >
              > >
              >
              >
              > CHRISTIANITY AS A MENTAL DISORDER
              >
              > By New10
              >
              >
              >
              > If one can be objective, I make a claim that
              > Christians suffer from a mental
              > disorder. No one in his or her right mind would give
              > the dogma of
              > Christianity any credibility. This is a case were
              > Christians are
              > indoctrinated into a mental disorder. Because
              > Christianity is so wide
              > spread, it is not apparent to most of the
              > population.
              >
              > www.atheistfellowship.com
              >
              >
              >
              >


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            • Lovejoe
              Dear, you are right and wrong, you are right that you asked for an objective discussion and you do not want to be insulted for this request, but this is not a
              Message 6 of 21 , Sep 26, 2006
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                Dear, you are right and wrong,
                you are right that you asked for an objective discussion
                and you do not want to be insulted for this request,
                but this is not a neutral community !
                You forgot that you are not in a objective quartier,
                you are surrounded by thousands of deathtoreligion'ers,
                of course you'll hear some insults as you declare your
                religious views! Because a Christian guy entering the
                deathtoreligion's private room is already a provocation
                if not an insult !!!!!!
                So, take it or leave it !

                Cem


                --- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, a a <Praesto12@...> wrote:
                >
                > Well I'd first like to say that Cookie Cuter Christian
                > is an insult.
                >
                > As I would prefer to refrain from insulting each other
                > I would ask that you do the same. I obviously can't do
                > much more than ask, but if you are searching for truth
                > and wanting to intelligently discuss these matters
                > then I would think that insults would hinder such
                > discussion.
                >
                > Secondly I would like to say, "what specifically would
                > you like to debate, debate the reality of Christ?"
                >
                > I'm not a "cookie cutter Christian," and I think that
                > when the discussions and dialouges are followed
                > through you will see Christianity as the most
                > coherently world view correlating to reality there is.
                > Again, broad terms, I know.
                >
                > No insults, put your money where your mouth is and
                > let's debate. That's all I ask.
                >
                > In response to your statement.
                > By this do you mean a discussion on the nature,reality
                > and possibility of miracles or of that which would be
                > considered supernatural? Or do you want to discuss the
                > historical documentations of Christ or would you like
                > to look at the prophetic,or historical realities of
                > the jewish community or of the bible? There are many
                > directions with which you're question can be responded
                > to. I'm open to fairly discussing any of it.
                > Lastly I would have to say that we should define the
                > word myth. For example if I can have a mythic
                > relationship with a woman, but I don't by this imply
                > that we don't exist. I'm simply saying that we express
                > characteristics which one would see as above and
                > beyond the "mundane."
                > If anything the human story seems to be tremendously
                > "mythic" and powerful, wouldn't you agree?
                > Let's discuss.
                > >
                > >
                > > > Easy answer. Debate the reality to which the myth
                > > refers, from
                > > > imagination,
                > > > to thinking and reasoning. What myths point to.
                > > >
                > > > Richard.
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > COOKIE CUTTER CHRIST'S
                > >
                > > New 10.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Let me put something out there to ponder regarding
                > > Jesus Christ -
                > > WHO WAS HE?
                > > - He was born of the virgin Maya, who was
                > > considered the "Queen of Heaven.
                > > He was of royal descent.
                > > He crushed a serpent's head.
                > > - He performed miracles and wonders, healed the
                > > sick, fed 500 men from a
                > > "small basket of cakes," and walked on water.
                > > - He abolished idolatry, was a "sower of the word,"
                > > and preached "the
                > > establishment of a kingdom of righteousness."
                > > - He taught chastity, temperance, tolerance,
                > > compassion, love, and the
                > > equality of all.
                > > - He was transfigured on a mount.
                > >
                > > - He was crucified in a sin-atonement, suffered for
                > > three days in hell, and
                > > was resurrected.
                > > - He ascended to "heaven."
                > > HE WAS...BUDDHA
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > WHO WAS HE?
                > > He contributed the name of Jesus Christ. He and his
                > > once-and-future
                > > Father, are frequently interchangeable in the mythos
                > > ("I and my Father are
                > > one").
                > > - He was born of the virgin Meri on December 25th in
                > > a cave/manger, with his
                > > birth being announced by a star in the East and
                > > attended by three wise men.
                > > - He was a child teacher in the Temple and was
                > > baptized when he was 30 years
                > > old. He was also baptized by "Anup the Baptizer,"
                > > who becomes "John the
                > > Baptist."
                > > - He had 12 disciples.
                > >
                > > - He performed miracles and raised one man,
                > > el-Azar-us, from the dead.
                > >
                > > - He walked on water.
                > >
                > > - He was transfigured on the Mount.
                > >
                > > - He was crucified, buried in a tomb and
                > > resurrected.
                > >
                > > - He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light, the
                > > Messiah, God's Anointed
                > > Son, the Son of Man, the Good Shepherd, the Lamb of
                > > God, the Word" etc.
                > > - He was "the Fisher," and was associated with the
                > > Lamb, Lion and Fish.
                > >
                > > - His personal epithet was "Iusa," the
                > > "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the
                > > "Father."
                > > - HE was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One," long
                > > before the Christians
                > > duplicated the story.
                > > - In the catacombs at Rome are pictures of Him as a
                > > baby being held by his
                > > virgin mother.
                > > HE WAS... the Egyptian God HORUS
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > (The ancient Egyptians also adopted the cross as a
                > > religious symbol of
                > > their pagan gods. Countless Egyptians drawings
                > > depict themselves holding
                > > crosses in their hands. Among them, the Egyptian
                > > savior Horus is depicted
                > > holding a cross in his hand. He is also depicted as
                > > an infant sitting on his
                > > mother's knee with a cross on the seat they occupy.
                > > The most common of the
                > > crosses used by these pagan Egyptians, the crux
                > > ansata, was later adopted by
                > > the Christians)
                > >
                > > WHO WAS HE?
                > > - He was born on December 25th
                > > - He was considered a great traveling teacher and
                > > master.
                > >
                > > - He had 12 companions or disciples.
                > >
                > > - He performed miracles.
                > >
                > > - He was buried in a tomb.
                > >
                > > - After three days he rose again.
                > >
                > > - His resurrection was celebrated every year.
                > >
                > > - He was called "the Good Shepherd."
                > >
                > > - He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the
                > > Light, the Redeemer, the
                > > Savior, the Messiah."
                > > - He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
                > >
                > > - His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day,"
                > > hundreds of years before the
                > > appearance of Christ.
                > > - He had his principal festival on what was later to
                > > become Easter, at which
                > > time he was resurrected.
                > > - His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."
                > > HE WAS... MITHRA
                > > "He who will not eat of my body and drink of my
                > > blood, so that he will be
                > > made on with me and I with him, the same shall not
                > > know salvation." An
                > > inscription to Mithras which parallels John 6:53-54.
                > > This inscription is
                > > inside the Vatican... in the tomb of saint peter.)
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > WHO WAS HE?
                > > Born of a Virgin
                > > His father was a carpenter.
                > > His birth was attended by angels, wise men and
                > > shepherds, and he was
                > > presented with gold, frankincense and myrrh.
                > > - He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the
                > > slaughter of thousands of
                > > infants. He was of royal descent.
                > >
                > > - He was baptized in a river.
                > >
                > > - He worked miracles and wonders.
                > >
                > > - He raised the dead and healed lepers, the deaf and
                > > the blind.
                > >
                > > - He used parables to teach the people about charity
                > > and love.
                > >
                > > - "He lived poor and he loved the poor."
                > >
                > > - He was transfigured in front of his disciples.
                > >
                > > - In some traditions he died on a tree or was
                > > crucified between two thieves.
                > >
                > > - He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven.
                > >
                > > - He is called the "Shepherd God" and "Lord of
                > > lords," and was considered
                > > "the Redeemer, Firstborn, Sin Bearer, Liberator,
                > > Universal Word."
                > > - He is the second person of the Trinity, and
                > > proclaimed himself the
                > > "Resurrection" and the "way to the Father."
                > > - He was considered the "Beginning, the Middle and
                > > the End," ("Alpha and
                > > Omega"), as well as being omniscient, omnipresent
                > > and omnipotent. - His
                > > disciples bestowed upon him the title "Jezeus,"
                > > meaning "pure essence."
                > > - He is to return to do battle with the "Prince of
                > > Evil,"
                > === message truncated ===
                >
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                >
              • kensharp81
                Perhaps I ve missed something in this thread? But can you clarify and contextualize the supposition of intellectual inability of Atheism ? What does that
                Message 7 of 21 , Sep 26, 2006
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                  Perhaps I've missed something in this thread? But can you clarify
                  and contextualize the supposition of "intellectual inability of
                  Atheism"? What does that mean? And I know this have been debated
                  ad infinitum, but how do you personally define "atheism"?

                  --- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, a a <Praesto12@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Lord Damien, the reality of Christ is that if you look
                  > at the debates out there True Christians will show the
                  > intellectual inability of Atheism and often they will
                  > adequately defend the Faith, which we all should do.
                  > However, the deeper reality of Christ is that he's
                  > God. He pisses people off because he wants their minds
                  > and Hearts. Christ is pulling on your heart. Christ
                  > calls you to bare your cross, forgive those you must
                  > forgive, come to a place of love and hope and faith to
                  > a dying world and he calls you to give up whatever
                  > pettiness or pain you have. Few want to do that.
                  >
                  > When the intellectual inability of Atheism is shown
                  > then what is generally left is a hurt heart. Since I
                  > can not specifically help you address these issues of
                  > emotion and of soul I am left to discuss the ideas
                  > around Atheism and Chrisitainty. I just want to be
                  > challenged intellectually by Athiest, I'm not trying
                  > to insult you and I would hope that you would have the
                  > ability not to insult me.
                  >
                  > When you rant and rave about "cults" then I think
                  > you're missing the point and honestly I would refer
                  > you to the book "The kingdom of Cults" edited by Ravi
                  > Zacharias if you truly want to know what a cult is,
                  > what makes it different from a community devoted to
                  > god, and what is the basis of soooo many of these
                  > cults. I challenge you to challenge yourself and look
                  > up the matter.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- "Dr. Newton Joseph" <drnjoseph@...>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: "lord damien" <lord_damien2002@...>
                  > > To: <deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 1:11 AM
                  > > Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Hello.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > CHRISTIANITY AS A MENTAL
                  > > DISORDER
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > By New10
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I often have said Christians are mentally disturbed
                  > > for their belief in a
                  > > chimera called Jesus. The most disturbed are those
                  > > that join cults. These
                  > > People join certain cults that best describes their
                  > > pathology. When in these
                  > > cults they lose their identity, they are given new
                  > > names. They are told what
                  > > to do and when they can do it, the cult hierarchy
                  > > has complete control over
                  > > these hapless victums.
                  > >
                  > > Just as Las Vegas has a gambling game to
                  > > fit the taste of every
                  > > gambler so to Christianity has a denomination that
                  > > will fit the taste of
                  > > every Christian. The pathology of the compulsive
                  > > gambler is that while
                  > > gambling they can shut out their contemporary
                  > > problems and is willing to
                  > > risk all of their money to do so. Those who remain
                  > > in the religion of their
                  > > families are also compulsive in their religion and
                  > > get their neurotic needs
                  > > met by familiarity as to not cause cognitive
                  > > dissonance. When, they find
                  > > their brand of religion no longer satisfies their
                  > > psychological needs they
                  > > will join a denomination that fits their particular
                  > > neurosis just as the
                  > > gamblers will find the game that satisfies their
                  > > neurosis. There are those
                  > > who can step back and examine their religion with
                  > > critical eyes for the
                  > > first time---even if they do suffer from cognitive
                  > > dissonance and can stay
                  > > with it long enough until the new information
                  > > becomes familiar, they will
                  > > discover the psychology of change. When religion
                  > > ceases to comfort one
                  > > intellectually and psychologically, they often
                  > > become atheists.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
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                • kensharp81
                  To key in on one point that you made, refrain from insulting each other . Considering the general theme of the group, espousing statements such as
                  Message 8 of 21 , Sep 26, 2006
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                    To key in on one point that you made, "refrain from insulting each
                    other". Considering the general theme of the group, espousing
                    statements such as "intellectual inability of atheist", and
                    asserting that the existence of "God" as a foregone conclusion [at
                    least that's what I'm gathering from your rhetoric]; I would not be
                    entirely surprised if your tone was deemed "insulting" by at least
                    some members.

                    I'm all for vigorous debates, but I think your pretentious tone is
                    already degrading this into a mud-slinging contest, and it doesn't
                    matter if the actual words are packaged in polite prose.

                    With all due respect, I'm amazed that members are even engaging you
                    in this particular sense; if your "god" does indeed exist, then
                    provide the evidence to support this ethereal claim. And I'm sure
                    you've heard this before, "the burden of proof is on you". So I'll
                    just sit back and watch...excuse me, I meant read ;-)


                    --- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, a a <Praesto12@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Well I'd first like to say that Cookie Cuter Christian
                    > is an insult.
                    >
                    > As I would prefer to refrain from insulting each other
                    > I would ask that you do the same. I obviously can't do
                    > much more than ask, but if you are searching for truth
                    > and wanting to intelligently discuss these matters
                    > then I would think that insults would hinder such
                    > discussion.
                    >
                    > Secondly I would like to say, "what specifically would
                    > you like to debate, debate the reality of Christ?"
                    >
                    > I'm not a "cookie cutter Christian," and I think that
                    > when the discussions and dialouges are followed
                    > through you will see Christianity as the most
                    > coherently world view correlating to reality there is.
                    > Again, broad terms, I know.
                    >
                    > No insults, put your money where your mouth is and
                    > let's debate. That's all I ask.
                    >
                    > In response to your statement.
                    > By this do you mean a discussion on the nature,reality
                    > and possibility of miracles or of that which would be
                    > considered supernatural? Or do you want to discuss the
                    > historical documentations of Christ or would you like
                    > to look at the prophetic,or historical realities of
                    > the jewish community or of the bible? There are many
                    > directions with which you're question can be responded
                    > to. I'm open to fairly discussing any of it.
                    > Lastly I would have to say that we should define the
                    > word myth. For example if I can have a mythic
                    > relationship with a woman, but I don't by this imply
                    > that we don't exist. I'm simply saying that we express
                    > characteristics which one would see as above and
                    > beyond the "mundane."
                    > If anything the human story seems to be tremendously
                    > "mythic" and powerful, wouldn't you agree?
                    > Let's discuss.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > Easy answer. Debate the reality to which the myth
                    > > refers, from
                    > > > imagination,
                    > > > to thinking and reasoning. What myths point to.
                    > > >
                    > > > Richard.
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > COOKIE CUTTER CHRIST'S
                    > >
                    > > New 10.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Let me put something out there to ponder regarding
                    > > Jesus Christ -
                    > > WHO WAS HE?
                    > > - He was born of the virgin Maya, who was
                    > > considered the "Queen of Heaven.
                    > > He was of royal descent.
                    > > He crushed a serpent's head.
                    > > - He performed miracles and wonders, healed the
                    > > sick, fed 500 men from a
                    > > "small basket of cakes," and walked on water.
                    > > - He abolished idolatry, was a "sower of the word,"
                    > > and preached "the
                    > > establishment of a kingdom of righteousness."
                    > > - He taught chastity, temperance, tolerance,
                    > > compassion, love, and the
                    > > equality of all.
                    > > - He was transfigured on a mount.
                    > >
                    > > - He was crucified in a sin-atonement, suffered for
                    > > three days in hell, and
                    > > was resurrected.
                    > > - He ascended to "heaven."
                    > > HE WAS...BUDDHA
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > WHO WAS HE?
                    > > He contributed the name of Jesus Christ. He and his
                    > > once-and-future
                    > > Father, are frequently interchangeable in the mythos
                    > > ("I and my Father are
                    > > one").
                    > > - He was born of the virgin Meri on December 25th in
                    > > a cave/manger, with his
                    > > birth being announced by a star in the East and
                    > > attended by three wise men.
                    > > - He was a child teacher in the Temple and was
                    > > baptized when he was 30 years
                    > > old. He was also baptized by "Anup the Baptizer,"
                    > > who becomes "John the
                    > > Baptist."
                    > > - He had 12 disciples.
                    > >
                    > > - He performed miracles and raised one man,
                    > > el-Azar-us, from the dead.
                    > >
                    > > - He walked on water.
                    > >
                    > > - He was transfigured on the Mount.
                    > >
                    > > - He was crucified, buried in a tomb and
                    > > resurrected.
                    > >
                    > > - He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light, the
                    > > Messiah, God's Anointed
                    > > Son, the Son of Man, the Good Shepherd, the Lamb of
                    > > God, the Word" etc.
                    > > - He was "the Fisher," and was associated with the
                    > > Lamb, Lion and Fish.
                    > >
                    > > - His personal epithet was "Iusa," the
                    > > "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the
                    > > "Father."
                    > > - HE was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One," long
                    > > before the Christians
                    > > duplicated the story.
                    > > - In the catacombs at Rome are pictures of Him as a
                    > > baby being held by his
                    > > virgin mother.
                    > > HE WAS... the Egyptian God HORUS
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > (The ancient Egyptians also adopted the cross as a
                    > > religious symbol of
                    > > their pagan gods. Countless Egyptians drawings
                    > > depict themselves holding
                    > > crosses in their hands. Among them, the Egyptian
                    > > savior Horus is depicted
                    > > holding a cross in his hand. He is also depicted as
                    > > an infant sitting on his
                    > > mother's knee with a cross on the seat they occupy.
                    > > The most common of the
                    > > crosses used by these pagan Egyptians, the crux
                    > > ansata, was later adopted by
                    > > the Christians)
                    > >
                    > > WHO WAS HE?
                    > > - He was born on December 25th
                    > > - He was considered a great traveling teacher and
                    > > master.
                    > >
                    > > - He had 12 companions or disciples.
                    > >
                    > > - He performed miracles.
                    > >
                    > > - He was buried in a tomb.
                    > >
                    > > - After three days he rose again.
                    > >
                    > > - His resurrection was celebrated every year.
                    > >
                    > > - He was called "the Good Shepherd."
                    > >
                    > > - He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the
                    > > Light, the Redeemer, the
                    > > Savior, the Messiah."
                    > > - He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
                    > >
                    > > - His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day,"
                    > > hundreds of years before the
                    > > appearance of Christ.
                    > > - He had his principal festival on what was later to
                    > > become Easter, at which
                    > > time he was resurrected.
                    > > - His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."
                    > > HE WAS... MITHRA
                    > > "He who will not eat of my body and drink of my
                    > > blood, so that he will be
                    > > made on with me and I with him, the same shall not
                    > > know salvation." An
                    > > inscription to Mithras which parallels John 6:53-54.
                    > > This inscription is
                    > > inside the Vatican... in the tomb of saint peter.)
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > WHO WAS HE?
                    > > Born of a Virgin
                    > > His father was a carpenter.
                    > > His birth was attended by angels, wise men and
                    > > shepherds, and he was
                    > > presented with gold, frankincense and myrrh.
                    > > - He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the
                    > > slaughter of thousands of
                    > > infants. He was of royal descent.
                    > >
                    > > - He was baptized in a river.
                    > >
                    > > - He worked miracles and wonders.
                    > >
                    > > - He raised the dead and healed lepers, the deaf and
                    > > the blind.
                    > >
                    > > - He used parables to teach the people about charity
                    > > and love.
                    > >
                    > > - "He lived poor and he loved the poor."
                    > >
                    > > - He was transfigured in front of his disciples.
                    > >
                    > > - In some traditions he died on a tree or was
                    > > crucified between two thieves.
                    > >
                    > > - He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven.
                    > >
                    > > - He is called the "Shepherd God" and "Lord of
                    > > lords," and was considered
                    > > "the Redeemer, Firstborn, Sin Bearer, Liberator,
                    > > Universal Word."
                    > > - He is the second person of the Trinity, and
                    > > proclaimed himself the
                    > > "Resurrection" and the "way to the Father."
                    > > - He was considered the "Beginning, the Middle and
                    > > the End," ("Alpha and
                    > > Omega"), as well as being omniscient, omnipresent
                    > > and omnipotent. - His
                    > > disciples bestowed upon him the title "Jezeus,"
                    > > meaning "pure essence."
                    > > - He is to return to do battle with the "Prince of
                    > > Evil,"
                    > === message truncated ===
                    >
                    >
                    > __________________________________________________
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                  • dantreble
                    No, I do not have anything I want you to respond to. I was providing additional information only, and it was not in support of a Cookie Cutter Christ s
                    Message 9 of 21 , Sep 26, 2006
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                      No, I do not have anything I want you to respond to.
                      I was providing additional information only, and it was not
                      in support of a "Cookie Cutter Christ's" assertion.

                      Welcome to the group, Richard.

                      Please note that I am a returning member, and that my messages
                      may be undergoing moderation. The last one took nearly a day to
                      post.

                      Dan

                      -- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, a a <Praesto12@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I'm up for reading links, but is there anything
                      > specifically you want me to respond to in this web
                      > address. What are specific questions you have?
                      >
                      > --- dantreble <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                      >
                      > > --- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. Newton
                      > > Joseph"
                      > > <drnjoseph@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > COOKIE CUTTER CHRIST'S
                      > > >
                      > > > New 10.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Let me put something out there to ponder regarding
                      > > Jesus Christ -
                      > >
                      > >
                      > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > > Here is additional info on that subject:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > http://www.thedevineevidence.com/jesus_similarities.html
                      > >
                      > > Dan
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > __________________________________________________
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                      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                      >
                    • Dr. Newton Joseph
                      ... From: a a To: Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 9:08 PM Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Hello. I
                      Message 10 of 21 , Sep 26, 2006
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                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "a a" <Praesto12@...>
                        To: <deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 9:08 PM
                        Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Hello.
                        I can tell you are emotionally disturbed. In fact, I can say you are close
                        to insanity. What you preach can only come from a disturbed mind, which has
                        been CONDITIONED all of your life to believe as you do. You are not dealing
                        with reality, which is called insanity

                        New10
                      • Dr. Newton Joseph
                        ... From: a a To: Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Hello.
                        Message 11 of 21 , Sep 26, 2006
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                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "a a" <Praesto12@...>
                          To: <deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 9:13 PM
                          Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Hello.


                          > Lord damien in response to your email let me say:
                          >
                          >
                          > My name is Richard and I'm seeking an intellectual
                          > challenge to
                          > Christianity from Atheist,Pantheist, Agnostic, and
                          > anyone else open
                          > for fair discussion.
                          >
                          > Being as I don't publically debate(yet) I am looking
                          > for a lions
                          > den in which I am able to challenge my faith in the
                          > message of
                          > Christ.

                          > How can one have a rational debate with one who is not only superstitious
                          > but mentally disturbed by their religion
                          New10
                        • Dr. Newton Joseph
                          If you were NOT indoctrinated into Christianity no one in their right mind would give a second thought to it. In order not to see Christianity as a
                          Message 12 of 21 , Sep 26, 2006
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                            If you were NOT indoctrinated into Christianity no one in their right mind
                            would give a second thought to it.
                            In order not to see Christianity as a superstition one would have to be
                            indoctrinated at an early age. Then you get used to absurdities without
                            question
                            New10




                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "a a" <Praesto12@...>
                            To: <deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 9:09 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Hello.


                            > Why do you think that Joseph?
                            >
                            > --- "Dr. Newton Joseph" <drnjoseph@...>
                            > wrote:
                            >
                            >>
                            >> ----- Original Message -----
                            >> From: "lord damien" <lord_damien2002@...>
                            >> To: <deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com>
                            >> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 1:11 AM
                            >> Subject: Re: [Death To Religion] Hello.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> >
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> CHRISTIANITY AS A MENTAL DISORDER
                            >>
                            >> By New10
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> If one can be objective, I make a claim that
                            >> Christians suffer from a mental
                            >> disorder. No one in his or her right mind would give
                            >> the dogma of
                            >> Christianity any credibility. This is a case were
                            >> Christians are
                            >> indoctrinated into a mental disorder. Because
                            >> Christianity is so wide
                            >> spread, it is not apparent to most of the
                            >> population.
                            >>
                            >> www.atheistfellowship.com
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            >
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