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11954Re: Questions from a God fearing christian about Atheism

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  • devasma
    Aug 8, 2009
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      You might have better luck using a source outside of the bible. Many dispute the bible's truth, and will not take "but the bible says so!" as a valid argument. Also - "you're" = "you are", "your" = "your". "There" = "there", "they're" = "they are".
      Personally, I think the most important thing is to seek knowledge. Your truth is not my truth is not Bestonnet's truth is not a Buddhist's truth is not a Muslim's truth is not a ... etc. Just because you say it is the truth, doesn't actually make it the truth.

      Devas

      --- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "wolfray@..." <wolfray@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks Richard for your answers. I sincerely appreciate the way you responded. Most of the time it is hateful, angry, mocking answers, which does not endear me to this type of discussion.
      >
      > I'm going to respond to your answers and if you feel so inclined you can do likewise. I could probably write a book.
      >
      > EMPTY TOMB
      > -There were witnesses. Your dismissing them because of your prejudice. You have no right to discount a christian witness to an event or happening, anymore than I haver a right to dismiss an athiest's witness to an event or happening.
      > -The tomb was sealed to ensure that His followers would not try to steal the body.
      > -There were Roman guards in place to ensure that the tomb was not tampered with.
      > -The body had been wrapped in linens and spices and they were still in place when the tomb was discovered empty.
      > -No one disputed that the tomb was empty, only what happened to the body.
      >
      > RESURRECTION
      > -No witnesses? There are at least 15 appearances listed in the Bible of the Risen Lord to over 500 people. (I guess there all smoking crack?)
      > -You talk of natural law. Since you don't know and understand God then you have a limited ability to understand what he can do. God created the universe, we can't put him in our little box of limited understanding. He made natural law, so He can do anything (ie. raise people from the dead, perform miracles) as witnessed by hundreds if not thousands who saw Jesus (God) raise people from the dead and perform miracles.
      > -We have to be able to agree on one thing. The only possible way for there to be a resurrection is that there has to be a God. So Jesus is either a liar or the Risen Lord. If it is a hoax how could it stand up to so much scrutiny over 2000 years and yet survive.
      > FULFILLED PROPHECY - Just 2 quick examples. I could give hundreds.
      > -Isaiah 7:14 Virgin birth. Written 700 years before it happened!!
      > -Isaiah 9:6,7 Coming Messiah. Again 700 years prior. Liar or prophet?
      >
      > CHANGED LIVES
      > -I'm talking about those in the Bible. Dicisples from cowardly wimps to martyr's. Paul from murdering christians to the greatest saint in the new testament. Question - would you die for your beliefs?
      >
      > So you admit it isn't a hoax. That's a start. In reality, this is very serious stuff. Whether I'm right or you are right, the MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO SEEK THE TRUTH. Being wrong for eternity is not a good thing. Thanks again for your answers.
      >
      > RAY
      > --- In deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Godwin" <meta@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Although I am a Christian (very liberal), I'll bite.
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: <wolfray@>
      > > To: <deathtoreligion@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 7:27 PM
      > > Subject: [Death To Religion] Questions from a God fearing christian about
      > > Atheism
      > >
      > >
      > > > 2. How do you explain away the crucifixion?
      > >
      > > I don't. I would say a probably, since it is supported what probably are
      > > genuine remarks of Josephus and Pliny (the Roman historian). A man named
      > > Jesus having a group of followers was crucified by the Romans.
      > >
      > > >
      > > > 3. How do you explain the empty tomb?
      > >
      > > Probably inauthentic, since there is no acceptable witness (only stories in
      > > an obviously polemic gospel), with no external evidence, either in writing
      > > or in artifact of some other kind. There is very high motive to invent it.
      > >
      > > >
      > > > 4. How do you explain the resurrection?
      > >
      > > Definitely not. Not only is there no witness, EVEN in the Bible, but no
      > > external evidence, and primarily because it violates what we know of the way
      > > nature operates, i.e. natural law. Also it very well follows the various
      > > myths of a dying and rising god, such as Mithra, Dionysius, and Apollonius.
      > >
      > > >
      > > > 5. How do you explain fulfilled prophecy?
      > >
      > > You need to specify that, and explain in each case how that would apply
      > > specifically to Jesus Christ.
      > >
      > > >
      > > > 6. How do you explain the completely changed lives of those who witnessed
      > > > the risen Lord? (Disiples, Paul, etc.)
      > >
      > > Happens all the time. But here you provide only the Bible, no external
      > > source. But there are external sources among the early Christians in
      > > history, you could mention. But primarily, this is not unique in history.
      > >
      > > >
      > > > 7. Why wasn't christianity proven to be a hoax 2000 years ago? After all
      > > > there were many just as you who despised Jesus and his message and they
      > > > had him killed.
      > >
      > > Probably because it's not a hoax, and because very few people despise Jesus
      > > and his message.
      > >
      > > Thank you for your additions, and surely it is a great temptation you give
      > > with the carrot of eternal glorious life after we die. I suspect very few
      > > people would want to go to hell. For sure there are a lot of "blind" people
      > > out there.
      > >
      > > Richard.
      > >
      > > >
      > > > I will conclude this post with several Bible verses for you to ponder and
      > > > a short story.
      > > >
      > > > Mark 4:13 so that, "they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever
      > > > hearing but never understanding, otherwise they might turn and be
      > > > forgiven!"
      > > >
      > > > Acts 5:38,39 Therefore, in the present case I advise you; Leave these men
      > > > alone! Let them go! For if there purpose or activity is of human origin,
      > > > it weill fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these
      > > > men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.
      > > >
      > > > Finally, three blind men were walking down a road and bumped into an
      > > > elephant. The first grabbed its leg and said this must be a tree. The
      > > > second grabbed the trunk and and said this must be a snake. The third
      > > > grabbed the tusk and said this must be a spear. Moral of the story. The
      > > > truth is the truth regardless of what we perceive. SO WHEN WE ARE TALKING
      > > > ABOUT OUR ETERNAL DESTINATION YOU AND I HAD BETTER KNOW THE TRUTH. ALOT
      > > > DEPENDS ON IT.
      > > >
      > > > I hope to have some good discussion. You are welcome to email me also.
      > > > PLEASE don't try to blow smoke up my butt with any pshyo enlightment. I
      > > > know of what I speak and you won't change my thinking with it.
      > > >
      > > > May God Bless
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ------------------------------------
      > > >
      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
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