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Re: new Justice League of America

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  • Glenn Moss
    I think the approach taken by Paul Dini in the animated JLU is the best way to use different characters. Simply make everyone a member and then draw on
    Message 1 of 6 , May 1, 2006
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      I think the approach taken by Paul Dini in the animated JLU is the
      best way to use different characters. Simply make "everyone" a
      member and then draw on different characters as necessary for
      story/plot.

      This way the "big 7" can be the main characters and everyone else is
      a reserve member that can either call for back up or be called in
      for a mission.

      Such an arrangement also allows for unique team-up of characters
      that would normally not be working together: Blue Devil, Vixen,
      Green Arrow and the Atom...

      Glenn

      --- In dccomicscharacters@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J."
      <lightoller_ch@...> wrote:
      >
      > Opinion seems to be rather split as to if it should be JLA
      (Superman,
      > Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, Green Lantern, Martian
      > Manhunter)
      >
      > Or JLI (Captain Atom, Rocket Red, Fire, Ice, Guy Gardner, Booster
      > Gold, Blue Beetle, Blue Jay, Power Girl, Elongated Man, Wally
      West,
      > etc).
      >
      > In the end, it seems to me that JLI was to the JLA what the
      Defenders
      > was to the Avengers; virtually an entirely different group.
      >
      > I don't see why one title isn't maintained with the founding
      > characters, allowing them to be the anchor to that title, and the
      > second title isn't the more open team of characters, depending on
      who
      > is dead now and who isn't.
      >
      > But I think many readers have seen attempts in both Avengers and
      JLA
      > to hold on to favorites, but then add that new life.
      >
      > Now when the Avengers would recruit the Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye and
      > Quicksilver, then they would take on the Beast and Moondragon,
      there
      > was endless focus on the memberships, as well as why others
      departed.
      >
      > The problem with the JLA was . . . . no one ever left. It seemed
      that
      > the group had to be big, in a Legion of Superheroes way.
      >
      > I thought one of the worst Avengers moves was when Tigra joined.
      She
      > was just too new to suddenly be an Avenger. "Oh you charged off in
      > battle in the lead."
      >
      > That was no reason to make her an Avenger, and the character never
      > struck me as an Avenger type.
      >
      > Firestorm was the same way in the JLA.
      >
      > Perhaps that could be group 2 of the JLA; those second tier
      characters.
      >
      > Green Arrow, Hawkman, Black Canary, Atom, Firestorm, Red Tornado,
      > Zatanna.
      >
      > Or mix and match these fourteen into two different groups,
      whatever,
      > but don't have all fourteen under one title.
      >
      > And I NEVER thought Phantom Stranger belonged on a superhero
      group.
      >
      > But to make the new JLA out of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman,
      Flash,
      > Aquaman and . . . . Robin of Earth 2 and She-Conquerer, an
      > intelligent, over-buxomed feminist warrior character they suddenly
      > concoct who puts men in their places, we've already been down that
      > road before.
      >
      > The problem I found with JLDetroit was it was limited, developing
      all
      > that strange stuff with Steel falling for Vibe's sister. Let's
      have a
      > street party. Ole!
      >
      > that's not everyone's scene, amigo.
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In dccomicscharacters@yahoogroups.com, "Joel Cerio"
      > <joelcerio@> wrote:
      > Well, the JLA title is being cancelled, but an all-new Justice
      League
      > of America monthly comic will be taking its place. Who are
      everyone's
      > picks to be in this new line-up? I would like to see most of the
      > Satellite-era/Silver-Age members return. I would also like to see
      > Vixen, Booster Gold, and others from later incarnations of the
      League
      > added to kind of round out the team and keep things new and
      fresh. I
      > would have said Gypsy too, but she just recently joined Birds of
      Prey.
      >
    • Richard J.
      I think this was always the intention of the JLA as the group got bigger, as well as the Legion of Superheroes, but unfortunately the same characters would
      Message 2 of 6 , May 1, 2006
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        I think this was always the intention of the JLA as the group got
        bigger, as well as the Legion of Superheroes, but unfortunately the
        same characters would turn up and others would be pushed to the
        background.

        Paul Levitz on the Legion was the only time I ever saw characters
        used here, then we would see others in a kind of meanwhile situation,
        then they would make their way back around.

        Levitz even paired up Legionnaires as tho they would prefer being
        together, such as Phantom Girl, Shadow Lass, Ultra Boy and Mon El.

        Wildfire would be with Blok or Jacques Foccart.

        Unfortunately, this never seemed to get done with the JLA.

        If it did and the big characters were absent (such as the Steve
        Englehart issue with the green woman called Willow. Only Atom,
        Aquaman and I believe Elongated Man were present) I wouldn't be at
        all surprised if the next couple of issues were full of Superman
        and/or Batman, as if to establish some sort of balance.


        --- In dccomicscharacters@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn Moss"
        <glennmoss2000@...> wrote:
        >
        > I think the approach taken by Paul Dini in the animated JLU is the
        > best way to use different characters. Simply make "everyone" a
        > member and then draw on different characters as necessary for
        > story/plot.
        >
        > This way the "big 7" can be the main characters and everyone else
        is
        > a reserve member that can either call for back up or be called in
        > for a mission.
        >
        > Such an arrangement also allows for unique team-up of characters
        > that would normally not be working together: Blue Devil, Vixen,
        > Green Arrow and the Atom...
        >
        > Glenn
        >
        > --- In dccomicscharacters@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J."
        > <lightoller_ch@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Opinion seems to be rather split as to if it should be JLA
        > (Superman,
        > > Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, Green Lantern, Martian
        > > Manhunter)
        > >
        > > Or JLI (Captain Atom, Rocket Red, Fire, Ice, Guy Gardner, Booster
        > > Gold, Blue Beetle, Blue Jay, Power Girl, Elongated Man, Wally
        > West,
        > > etc).
        > >
        > > In the end, it seems to me that JLI was to the JLA what the
        > Defenders
        > > was to the Avengers; virtually an entirely different group.
        > >
        > > I don't see why one title isn't maintained with the founding
        > > characters, allowing them to be the anchor to that title, and the
        > > second title isn't the more open team of characters, depending on
        > who
        > > is dead now and who isn't.
        > >
        > > But I think many readers have seen attempts in both Avengers and
        > JLA
        > > to hold on to favorites, but then add that new life.
        > >
        > > Now when the Avengers would recruit the Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye
        and
        > > Quicksilver, then they would take on the Beast and Moondragon,
        > there
        > > was endless focus on the memberships, as well as why others
        > departed.
        > >
        > > The problem with the JLA was . . . . no one ever left. It seemed
        > that
        > > the group had to be big, in a Legion of Superheroes way.
        > >
        > > I thought one of the worst Avengers moves was when Tigra joined.
        > She
        > > was just too new to suddenly be an Avenger. "Oh you charged off
        in
        > > battle in the lead."
        > >
        > > That was no reason to make her an Avenger, and the character
        never
        > > struck me as an Avenger type.
        > >
        > > Firestorm was the same way in the JLA.
        > >
        > > Perhaps that could be group 2 of the JLA; those second tier
        > characters.
        > >
        > > Green Arrow, Hawkman, Black Canary, Atom, Firestorm, Red Tornado,
        > > Zatanna.
        > >
        > > Or mix and match these fourteen into two different groups,
        > whatever,
        > > but don't have all fourteen under one title.
        > >
        > > And I NEVER thought Phantom Stranger belonged on a superhero
        > group.
        > >
        > > But to make the new JLA out of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman,
        > Flash,
        > > Aquaman and . . . . Robin of Earth 2 and She-Conquerer, an
        > > intelligent, over-buxomed feminist warrior character they
        suddenly
        > > concoct who puts men in their places, we've already been down
        that
        > > road before.
        > >
        > > The problem I found with JLDetroit was it was limited, developing
        > all
        > > that strange stuff with Steel falling for Vibe's sister. Let's
        > have a
        > > street party. Ole!
        > >
        > > that's not everyone's scene, amigo.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In dccomicscharacters@yahoogroups.com, "Joel Cerio"
        > > <joelcerio@> wrote:
        > > Well, the JLA title is being cancelled, but an all-new Justice
        > League
        > > of America monthly comic will be taking its place. Who are
        > everyone's
        > > picks to be in this new line-up? I would like to see most of the
        > > Satellite-era/Silver-Age members return. I would also like to
        see
        > > Vixen, Booster Gold, and others from later incarnations of the
        > League
        > > added to kind of round out the team and keep things new and
        > fresh. I
        > > would have said Gypsy too, but she just recently joined Birds of
        > Prey.
        > >
        >
      • Glenn Moss
        Richard, I agree that the big guns always ended up in the limelight in both the JLA and the Legion. Back a gazillion years ago when Julie Schwartz ran DC
        Message 3 of 6 , May 2, 2006
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          Richard,
          I agree that the big guns always ended up in the limelight in both
          the JLA and the Legion. Back a gazillion years ago when Julie
          Schwartz ran DC there was an edict that Superman & Batman had to
          appear in practically every issue of the JLA. Over at the Legion
          there were 14 plot lines that were used over and over by the writers
          and artists because Julie thought kids only read comics for about
          one year so why bother to invest in new stories...

          Often I wonder if the over use of Supes and BM (I love to use that
          term for Bruce)is partially a financial one. The guys who own the
          two comic shops I frequent say that comics with BM or Supes always
          sell better. DC Direct claims that the Superman and Batman figures
          outsell all other action figures they produce. I dunno, but there
          must be something to it. Over at Marvel Wolverine and Spiderman
          seem to be in every issue of every comic and ToyBiz seems to produce
          a Wolverine figure in every Marvel Legends series they crank out.

          DC's never had as easy a time doing the interpersonal relationship
          story as Marvel did. Perhaps that is why the differing team ups
          have been uneven as well.

          Glenn

          --- In dccomicscharacters@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J."
          <lightoller_ch@...> wrote:
          >
          > I think this was always the intention of the JLA as the group got
          > bigger, as well as the Legion of Superheroes, but unfortunately
          the
          > same characters would turn up and others would be pushed to the
          > background.
          >
          > Paul Levitz on the Legion was the only time I ever saw characters
          > used here, then we would see others in a kind of meanwhile
          situation,
          > then they would make their way back around.
          >
          > Levitz even paired up Legionnaires as tho they would prefer being
          > together, such as Phantom Girl, Shadow Lass, Ultra Boy and Mon El.
          >
          > Wildfire would be with Blok or Jacques Foccart.
          >
          > Unfortunately, this never seemed to get done with the JLA.
          >
          > If it did and the big characters were absent (such as the Steve
          > Englehart issue with the green woman called Willow. Only Atom,
          > Aquaman and I believe Elongated Man were present) I wouldn't be at
          > all surprised if the next couple of issues were full of Superman
          > and/or Batman, as if to establish some sort of balance.
          >
          >
          > --- In dccomicscharacters@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn Moss"
          > <glennmoss2000@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I think the approach taken by Paul Dini in the animated JLU is
          the
          > > best way to use different characters. Simply make "everyone" a
          > > member and then draw on different characters as necessary for
          > > story/plot.
          > >
          > > This way the "big 7" can be the main characters and everyone
          else
          > is
          > > a reserve member that can either call for back up or be called
          in
          > > for a mission.
          > >
          > > Such an arrangement also allows for unique team-up of characters
          > > that would normally not be working together: Blue Devil, Vixen,
          > > Green Arrow and the Atom...
          > >
          > > Glenn
          > >
          > > --- In dccomicscharacters@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J."
          > > <lightoller_ch@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Opinion seems to be rather split as to if it should be JLA
          > > (Superman,
          > > > Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, Green Lantern, Martian
          > > > Manhunter)
          > > >
          > > > Or JLI (Captain Atom, Rocket Red, Fire, Ice, Guy Gardner,
          Booster
          > > > Gold, Blue Beetle, Blue Jay, Power Girl, Elongated Man, Wally
          > > West,
          > > > etc).
          > > >
          > > > In the end, it seems to me that JLI was to the JLA what the
          > > Defenders
          > > > was to the Avengers; virtually an entirely different group.
          > > >
          > > > I don't see why one title isn't maintained with the founding
          > > > characters, allowing them to be the anchor to that title, and
          the
          > > > second title isn't the more open team of characters, depending
          on
          > > who
          > > > is dead now and who isn't.
          > > >
          > > > But I think many readers have seen attempts in both Avengers
          and
          > > JLA
          > > > to hold on to favorites, but then add that new life.
          > > >
          > > > Now when the Avengers would recruit the Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye
          > and
          > > > Quicksilver, then they would take on the Beast and Moondragon,
          > > there
          > > > was endless focus on the memberships, as well as why others
          > > departed.
          > > >
          > > > The problem with the JLA was . . . . no one ever left. It
          seemed
          > > that
          > > > the group had to be big, in a Legion of Superheroes way.
          > > >
          > > > I thought one of the worst Avengers moves was when Tigra
          joined.
          > > She
          > > > was just too new to suddenly be an Avenger. "Oh you charged
          off
          > in
          > > > battle in the lead."
          > > >
          > > > That was no reason to make her an Avenger, and the character
          > never
          > > > struck me as an Avenger type.
          > > >
          > > > Firestorm was the same way in the JLA.
          > > >
          > > > Perhaps that could be group 2 of the JLA; those second tier
          > > characters.
          > > >
          > > > Green Arrow, Hawkman, Black Canary, Atom, Firestorm, Red
          Tornado,
          > > > Zatanna.
          > > >
          > > > Or mix and match these fourteen into two different groups,
          > > whatever,
          > > > but don't have all fourteen under one title.
          > > >
          > > > And I NEVER thought Phantom Stranger belonged on a superhero
          > > group.
          > > >
          > > > But to make the new JLA out of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman,
          > > Flash,
          > > > Aquaman and . . . . Robin of Earth 2 and She-Conquerer, an
          > > > intelligent, over-buxomed feminist warrior character they
          > suddenly
          > > > concoct who puts men in their places, we've already been down
          > that
          > > > road before.
          > > >
          > > > The problem I found with JLDetroit was it was limited,
          developing
          > > all
          > > > that strange stuff with Steel falling for Vibe's sister. Let's
          > > have a
          > > > street party. Ole!
          > > >
          > > > that's not everyone's scene, amigo.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In dccomicscharacters@yahoogroups.com, "Joel Cerio"
          > > > <joelcerio@> wrote:
          > > > Well, the JLA title is being cancelled, but an all-new Justice
          > > League
          > > > of America monthly comic will be taking its place. Who are
          > > everyone's
          > > > picks to be in this new line-up? I would like to see most of
          the
          > > > Satellite-era/Silver-Age members return. I would also like to
          > see
          > > > Vixen, Booster Gold, and others from later incarnations of the
          > > League
          > > > added to kind of round out the team and keep things new and
          > > fresh. I
          > > > would have said Gypsy too, but she just recently joined Birds
          of
          > > Prey.
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Richard J.
          Well, it s obvious that Supes and BM were used so much because they were perceived to be the biggest sellers of the titles. Human Torch couldnt simply carry an
          Message 4 of 6 , May 2, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Well, it's obvious that Supes and BM were used so much because they
            were perceived to be the biggest sellers of the titles.

            Human Torch couldnt simply carry an issue of Team Up every three
            issues or so, without dramatically harming sales, it seems.

            --- In dccomicscharacters@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn Moss"
            <glennmoss2000@...> wrote:
            >
            > Richard,
            > I agree that the big guns always ended up in the limelight in both
            > the JLA and the Legion. Back a gazillion years ago when Julie
            > Schwartz ran DC there was an edict that Superman & Batman had to
            > appear in practically every issue of the JLA. Over at the Legion
            > there were 14 plot lines that were used over and over by the
            writers
            > and artists because Julie thought kids only read comics for about
            > one year so why bother to invest in new stories...
            >
            > Often I wonder if the over use of Supes and BM (I love to use that
            > term for Bruce)is partially a financial one. The guys who own the
            > two comic shops I frequent say that comics with BM or Supes always
            > sell better. DC Direct claims that the Superman and Batman figures
            > outsell all other action figures they produce. I dunno, but there
            > must be something to it. Over at Marvel Wolverine and Spiderman
            > seem to be in every issue of every comic and ToyBiz seems to
            produce
            > a Wolverine figure in every Marvel Legends series they crank out.
            >
            > DC's never had as easy a time doing the interpersonal relationship
            > story as Marvel did. Perhaps that is why the differing team ups
            > have been uneven as well.
            >
            > Glenn
            >
            > --- In dccomicscharacters@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J."
            > <lightoller_ch@> wrote:
            > >
            > > I think this was always the intention of the JLA as the group got
            > > bigger, as well as the Legion of Superheroes, but unfortunately
            > the
            > > same characters would turn up and others would be pushed to the
            > > background.
            > >
            > > Paul Levitz on the Legion was the only time I ever saw characters
            > > used here, then we would see others in a kind of meanwhile
            > situation,
            > > then they would make their way back around.
            > >
            > > Levitz even paired up Legionnaires as tho they would prefer being
            > > together, such as Phantom Girl, Shadow Lass, Ultra Boy and Mon El.
            > >
            > > Wildfire would be with Blok or Jacques Foccart.
            > >
            > > Unfortunately, this never seemed to get done with the JLA.
            > >
            > > If it did and the big characters were absent (such as the Steve
            > > Englehart issue with the green woman called Willow. Only Atom,
            > > Aquaman and I believe Elongated Man were present) I wouldn't be
            at
            > > all surprised if the next couple of issues were full of Superman
            > > and/or Batman, as if to establish some sort of balance.
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In dccomicscharacters@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn Moss"
            > > <glennmoss2000@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I think the approach taken by Paul Dini in the animated JLU is
            > the
            > > > best way to use different characters. Simply make "everyone" a
            > > > member and then draw on different characters as necessary for
            > > > story/plot.
            > > >
            > > > This way the "big 7" can be the main characters and everyone
            > else
            > > is
            > > > a reserve member that can either call for back up or be called
            > in
            > > > for a mission.
            > > >
            > > > Such an arrangement also allows for unique team-up of
            characters
            > > > that would normally not be working together: Blue Devil,
            Vixen,
            > > > Green Arrow and the Atom...
            > > >
            > > > Glenn
            > > >
            > > > --- In dccomicscharacters@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J."
            > > > <lightoller_ch@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Opinion seems to be rather split as to if it should be JLA
            > > > (Superman,
            > > > > Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, Green Lantern, Martian
            > > > > Manhunter)
            > > > >
            > > > > Or JLI (Captain Atom, Rocket Red, Fire, Ice, Guy Gardner,
            > Booster
            > > > > Gold, Blue Beetle, Blue Jay, Power Girl, Elongated Man, Wally
            > > > West,
            > > > > etc).
            > > > >
            > > > > In the end, it seems to me that JLI was to the JLA what the
            > > > Defenders
            > > > > was to the Avengers; virtually an entirely different group.
            > > > >
            > > > > I don't see why one title isn't maintained with the founding
            > > > > characters, allowing them to be the anchor to that title, and
            > the
            > > > > second title isn't the more open team of characters,
            depending
            > on
            > > > who
            > > > > is dead now and who isn't.
            > > > >
            > > > > But I think many readers have seen attempts in both Avengers
            > and
            > > > JLA
            > > > > to hold on to favorites, but then add that new life.
            > > > >
            > > > > Now when the Avengers would recruit the Scarlet Witch,
            Hawkeye
            > > and
            > > > > Quicksilver, then they would take on the Beast and
            Moondragon,
            > > > there
            > > > > was endless focus on the memberships, as well as why others
            > > > departed.
            > > > >
            > > > > The problem with the JLA was . . . . no one ever left. It
            > seemed
            > > > that
            > > > > the group had to be big, in a Legion of Superheroes way.
            > > > >
            > > > > I thought one of the worst Avengers moves was when Tigra
            > joined.
            > > > She
            > > > > was just too new to suddenly be an Avenger. "Oh you charged
            > off
            > > in
            > > > > battle in the lead."
            > > > >
            > > > > That was no reason to make her an Avenger, and the character
            > > never
            > > > > struck me as an Avenger type.
            > > > >
            > > > > Firestorm was the same way in the JLA.
            > > > >
            > > > > Perhaps that could be group 2 of the JLA; those second tier
            > > > characters.
            > > > >
            > > > > Green Arrow, Hawkman, Black Canary, Atom, Firestorm, Red
            > Tornado,
            > > > > Zatanna.
            > > > >
            > > > > Or mix and match these fourteen into two different groups,
            > > > whatever,
            > > > > but don't have all fourteen under one title.
            > > > >
            > > > > And I NEVER thought Phantom Stranger belonged on a superhero
            > > > group.
            > > > >
            > > > > But to make the new JLA out of Superman, Batman, Wonder
            Woman,
            > > > Flash,
            > > > > Aquaman and . . . . Robin of Earth 2 and She-Conquerer, an
            > > > > intelligent, over-buxomed feminist warrior character they
            > > suddenly
            > > > > concoct who puts men in their places, we've already been down
            > > that
            > > > > road before.
            > > > >
            > > > > The problem I found with JLDetroit was it was limited,
            > developing
            > > > all
            > > > > that strange stuff with Steel falling for Vibe's sister.
            Let's
            > > > have a
            > > > > street party. Ole!
            > > > >
            > > > > that's not everyone's scene, amigo.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In dccomicscharacters@yahoogroups.com, "Joel Cerio"
            > > > > <joelcerio@> wrote:
            > > > > Well, the JLA title is being cancelled, but an all-new
            Justice
            > > > League
            > > > > of America monthly comic will be taking its place. Who are
            > > > everyone's
            > > > > picks to be in this new line-up? I would like to see most of
            > the
            > > > > Satellite-era/Silver-Age members return. I would also like
            to
            > > see
            > > > > Vixen, Booster Gold, and others from later incarnations of
            the
            > > > League
            > > > > added to kind of round out the team and keep things new and
            > > > fresh. I
            > > > > would have said Gypsy too, but she just recently joined Birds
            > of
            > > > Prey.
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
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