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Re: [The Dark Eye RPG] Darkeye and D20.

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  • Michael Sprague
    Well, first of all, one of the charms of The Dark Eye is that is is _not_ d20. Second I m not sure how converting it to d20 would fix the lack of support
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 26, 2006
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      Well, first of all, one of the charms of The Dark Eye is that is
      is _not_ d20. Second I'm not sure how converting it to d20 would
      fix the "lack of support issue."

      ~ Mike

      --- Tawmis <tyragon@...> wrote:

      >
      > Since there's a DARKEYE pen & paper version that's been
      > introduced to
      > the United States - but the support for it has been... less
      > than bad -
      > I was curious if anyone here has ever thought of taking some of
      > the
      > things for DARKEYE and turning it into the D20 System that has
      > become
      > so widely accepted for DUNGEONS & DRAGONS?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


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    • Tawmis
      ... Really? For you it s that it s not a D20? To my understanding, even the dice rolls are handled differently than the original version(s) of The Dark Eye
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 28, 2006
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        > Well, first of all, one of the charms of The Dark Eye is that is
        > is _not_ d20. Second I'm not sure how converting it to d20 would
        > fix the "lack of support issue."
        > ~ Mike

        Really? For you it's that it's not a D20? To my understanding, even
        the dice rolls are handled differently than the original version(s) of
        The Dark Eye (whose "proper" name I can never spell correctly!) For
        me, it's actually the world, the history, etc. Sorta like FORGOTTEN
        REALMS or DRAGONLANCE. I don't enjoy them less because they're D20
        systems. To me, it doesn't matter what kind of "dice system" it is.
        For me, it's the rich world and history that I am given a chance to
        take my character on a walk through. Whether I am rolling three six
        sided dice to attack or one d20, matters little.

        And as to how that would fix the "lack of support" - as it is now, we
        don't have much in the ways of gaming material for The Dark Eye. A
        converted D20 version (made by fans obviously!) would allow us to pull
        things (monsters, items, magic) from existing D20 systems. Need to
        fight a goblin? You got the stats in the monster manual. Need to
        tackle a giant? Monster manual. Need to find a very nice sword called
        a 'Sword of Destiny' - quickly made up in the DM's Guide.

        I mean, I would MUCH rather adapt things from existing games that
        allow me to run around in Arkania, vs waiting on my ass with two books
        that do very little good to me or my players, ya know?
      • Michael Sprague
        ... What I meant is that I, like a number of people, am sick of all the mass of d20 stuff. The d20 system is okay ... better than I origionally thought ...
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 28, 2006
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          >> Well, first of all, one of the charms of The Dark Eye is
          >> that it is _not_ d20. Second I'm not sure how converting
          >> it to d20 would fix the "lack of support issue."
          >> ~ Mike
          >
          > Really? For you it's that it's not a D20? To my understanding,
          > even the dice rolls are handled differently than the original
          > version(s) of The Dark Eye (whose "proper" name I can never
          > spell correctly!)

          What I meant is that I, like a number of people, am sick of all
          the mass of d20 stuff. The d20 system is okay ... better than I
          origionally thought ... but I don't care to see yet another d20
          conversion. Many game worlds lose their charm when you try to
          force fit them into the d20 system.

          > For me, it's actually the world, the history, etc. Sorta
          > like FORGOTTEN REALMS or DRAGONLANCE. I don't enjoy them
          > less because they're D20 systems. To me, it doesn't matter
          > what kind of "dice system" it is.
          > For me, it's the rich world and history that I am given a
          > chance to take my character on a walk through. Whether I
          > am rolling three six sided dice to attack or one d20,
          > matters little.

          As you wrote it, I don't disagree at all. However, I really
          don't think you get it. It has little or nothing to do with the
          "dice system," and everything to do with the "game system."

          I'm not about to get into a debate on the pros and cons of the
          d20 System here. I have and can play it ... but it would never
          be my first choice.


          > And as to how that would fix the "lack of support" - as it
          > is now, we don't have much in the ways of gaming material
          > for The Dark Eye. A converted D20 version (made by fans
          > obviously!) would allow us to pull things (monsters, items,
          > magic) from existing D20 systems. Need to fight a goblin?
          > You got the stats in the monster manual. Need to tackle
          > a giant? Monster manual. Need to find a very nice sword
          > called a 'Sword of Destiny' - quickly made up in the
          > DM's Guide.

          Where to start on this. Hmmm.

          First, the lack of support means there is verly little to
          actually convert, which was my original point, even if not
          clearly stated.

          Second, the majority of the "fans" are not here in the U.S., and
          have all the support that they need ... or at least a whole lot
          more than we have ... so they have no need or desire to convert
          things to another system. As I understand it, most of the things
          fans would convert are written in German or French.

          Thrid, one of the attractions of the Dark Eye is that it is not
          based on D&D. Pulling things from the DM's Guide or the Monster
          Manual are for D&D, not for The Dark Eye. The whole idea makes
          me cringe. If I want to play D&D, there are already plenty of
          Game worlds created for it. I/We would be wasting our time
          trying to convert something like this, especially when there is
          so little to actually do anything with.

          > I mean, I would MUCH rather adapt things from existing games
          > that allow me to run around in Arkania, vs waiting on my ass
          > with two books that do very little good to me or my players,
          > ya know?

          I completly understand that sentiment. No way would I suggest
          you sit on your ass and wait ... but until "The World of
          Aventuria" comes out (if ever), I suggest that the books sit on
          the shelf and wait, because they are not going to do your or your
          players any good anyway ... even if you do convert them to d20.
          :-)

          ~ Mike

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        • Michael Sprague
          Forgot to use the dang spelling checker. Sorry all. ~ Mike __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 28, 2006
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            Forgot to use the dang spelling checker. Sorry all.

            ~ Mike


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          • Chris and Anne House
            Hi my Name is Chris House , and I JUST BEEN LURKING FOR THE PAST THREE MONTHS litening and watching. I found Dark Eye in our local resale book shoppe called
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 1, 2006
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              Hi my Name is Chris House , and I JUST BEEN LURKING
              FOR THE PAST THREE MONTHS litening and watching. I
              found Dark Eye in our local resale book shoppe called
              Hlaf price. let it set there for a month before I
              finnaly thought I had the time to explore another
              fantasy game! but its main attraction was it was
              diffrent- diffrent from d20, diffrent as in from
              another country and I wanted to see how another
              country would design an rpg.

              the conversion issue is typical of us Americans, we do
              not learn other languages and we are on another
              continent, this makes anything that is not big or go
              big kind get left in the dirt, the only two games from
              overseas I have seen succeed in this narrow market to
              begine with is KULT,SJG Remake of In Nomine , NOW that
              said, to make a game succeed you need to have atlease
              a good word, I only realised what Dark eye was after
              buying the book the add sucks. the demo availibility
              sucks too.
              WHAT dose Dark Eye have to offer me that better
              fantasy games have not already done?
              I like the game, but I find more interested games out
              there that is not D20 and has more allure. Lord of the
              rings rpg -master pieace of a game- <not D20>
              Warhammer fantasy= unique Eourpine feel and destict
              game mechanics<not d20> dark eye has a following in
              France and Germany because when it came out it was
              unique. and gained a solid game base. now it is one of
              many. and if it well not support even its vain efforts
              state side it is already a histroic note in the next
              gamers bible!



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            • Tawmis
              ... You know the kicker? I am by no means a fan of the D20 system myself. I by and far prefer 2nd Edition - and that s because I am an old man (mule?) and very
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 6, 2006
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                > What I meant is that I, like a number of people, am sick of all
                > the mass of d20 stuff. The d20 system is okay ... better than I
                > origionally thought ... but I don't care to see yet another d20
                > conversion. Many game worlds lose their charm when you try to
                > force fit them into the d20 system.

                You know the kicker? I am by no means a fan of the D20 system
                myself. I by and far prefer 2nd Edition - and that's because I am an
                old man (mule?) and very set in my ways. I know 2ndE AD&D back and
                forth. The D20 system is all right - but too drastically different
                for me.

                However, because so many people now use the D20 system, and it's
                pretty much widely accepted - it would be easier to "lure" people
                into checking out Darkeye if it was a system they might be more
                familiar with rather than sighing at trying to learn a new set of
                rules, and suffering slow downs, when ye need to pause and check a
                specific rule.

                > As you wrote it, I don't disagree at all. However, I really
                > don't think you get it. It has little or nothing to do with the
                > "dice system," and everything to do with the "game system."
                > I'm not about to get into a debate on the pros and cons of the
                > d20 System here. I have and can play it ... but it would never
                > be my first choice.

                Well, it would never be my first choice either. Now, obviously it's
                not going to ever be the D20 System, since they have already
                released it and we know that much. However, with the lack of support
                Darkeye is getting - I can already seeing it fold before it ever
                truly got off the ground - and that would be a shame. And I think if
                it was the D20 system, at least more people would try their hand at
                it. When there's only one book (and two VERY SMALL suppliments) -
                there's no interest in purchasing it because you can't do much with
                what has been handed out.

                > Thrid, one of the attractions of the Dark Eye is that it is not
                > based on D&D. Pulling things from the DM's Guide or the Monster
                > Manual are for D&D, not for The Dark Eye. The whole idea makes
                > me cringe.

                See, this is something I saw in another message. Dark Eye is not
                D&D. It's not "Dungeons & Dragons" specifically - no. Since D&D is a
                generic term. It's like saying, "My Nissan is not a car! It's a
                Nissan XTerra!"

                For it not being "D&D" - what separates it (in my silly view) is
                that it's a "dedicated world" - meaning it already has a history, a
                setting, a map, etc. This isn't a world someone's making up during
                their own campaign.

                Dark Eye DOES however have Orcs. Goblins. And an assortment of other
                creatures that are in the Monster Manual(s) that could be referenced
                if it had been a D20 system and we never get a "Monster Manual" type
                book out of The Dark Eye. But if we never get a "Monster Manual"
                type thing for Dark Eye - what do we base our monsters off of? Or if
                we never get a book that shows spells? What would we base our spells
                off of?

                Like I said - the whole idea/desire of Dark Eye being D20 for me
                isn't because I am a die hard fan of the D20 system. As I said up
                there, I am not a fan. I prefer AD&D 2ndE by far. However, I do
                realize that D20 is a widely accepted "game version" out there. And
                if it meant possibly having something to draw from - even if was
                from other books (goblins and orcs from the Monster Manual(s) and
                what not) - then we would at least have something!

                I have waited since the "Realms of Arkania" PC Games (which goes
                back to 1991!) for the Dark Eye to be "imported/exported" into an
                English version. I scourged the web and found versions of it and
                would do my best to translate as much as I could on my own. And when
                I couldn't, I went so far as to ask folks on my Realms of Arkania
                list (http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/realmsofarkania for anyone
                interested) which I started back in 1999.

                And I am gonna be torqued if Dark Eye flops and we never get more
                books out of it to make it a game we can play.

                So the entire idea/desire of Dark Eye being D20 is born out of fear
                of lack of support and the failure of the game because of said lack
                of support.

                > I completly understand that sentiment. No way would I suggest
                > you sit on your ass and wait ... but until "The World of
                > Aventuria" comes out (if ever), I suggest that the books sit on
                > the shelf and wait, because they are not going to do your or your
                > players any good anyway ... even if you do convert them to d20.
                > :-)

                Oh trust me, I could never convert it to D20 myself. I have played
                in the D20 world and what not - but there's no way I know enough
                about it to convert it myself. And Dark Eye is an extremely complex
                game with a lot of "extra things" that would make a D20 n0ob like
                myself throw myself off a bridge if I tried to convert it. :)

                Like I said... D20 for Dark Eye just cuz of the fear of it flopping
                due to lack of support. :)

                > Hi my Name is Chris House , and I JUST BEEN LURKING
                > FOR THE PAST THREE MONTHS litening and watching. I
                > found Dark Eye in our local resale book shoppe called
                > Hlaf price. let it set there for a month before I
                > finnaly thought I had the time to explore another
                > fantasy game! but its main attraction was it was
                > diffrent- diffrent from d20, diffrent as in from
                > another country and I wanted to see how another
                > country would design an rpg.

                Oh, trust me. I can understand that completely. My first
                introduction to "The Dark Eye" was through the PC Games "Realms of
                Arkania" (which if folks here have not played, I STRONGLY recommend
                them, especially Star Trail). Having seen the world through the
                game, and the complex, yet amazing character sheets (you could
                export the characters to text files, which was nice!) - I was
                hooked. I wanted to know more about this game. (And this was before
                D20 was ever a twinkle in someone's eye - since this was back in
                1991!)

                > the conversion issue is typical of us Americans, we do
                > not learn other languages and we are on another
                > continent, this makes anything that is not big or go
                > big kind get left in the dirt

                LOL! Well I speak English and two other languages! :-P

                > I like the game, but I find more interested games out
                > there that is not D20 and has more allure. Lord of the
                > rings rpg -master pieace of a game- <not D20>

                Yeah but with the success of the movie - LotR will have a ton of
                support (and a ton of money) to pour into other products, such as an
                RPG.

                I am pretty sure FanPro doesn't have those kind of resources, or
                money...

                > I Agree with many things Michael says here.
                > 1) The problem of The Dark Eye is not the system but the
                > support. Changing the TDE system to D20 would'nt change
                > the lack of Englisch support.

                You are correct. If it was D20 they wouldn't be making the books we
                need any faster. However, if we are DMing our little game and we
                need a goblin - we can pull out the regular Monster Manual, and
                throw it against our players in Arkania.

                So it wouldn't increase the support FOR Arkania, but it would
                establish a back up plan for DMs (and players) in case all we get
                out of this is one book and two VERY small suppliments.

                Again - I can't emphasize enough - I am not a fan of the D20 system.
                I don't want it because it would be easier on me. The only reason I
                would want it is because at least I know just about every monster in
                Arkania can be found in one of the other many D20 system books - or
                could be made easily with the D20 system. All you have to do as a DM
                is keep the rest of it true to the world of Arkania.

                > 2) A part of that the TDE system is typical for the game,
                > another system would probably not fit (in my opinion)

                Oh, I agree. Heck, even the character sheets are far more complex
                than the D20 system type characters - so trying to find a way to
                make that all work in the D20 system would have been a virtual
                nightmare.

                > 3) Taking info from other games (e.g. like D&D or
                > Warhammer) doesn't fit at all.

                Okay - see this is the one someone has to explain to me. Isn't a
                goblin just a goblin? Isn't an orc just an orc? A lot of the
                monsters from other games - in my eyes - could be brought over (if
                they exist in Arkania - obviously, bringing in Draconians from
                Dragonlance would not work - but monsters that exist in Arkania and
                exist in other books could easily be brought over) - again, assuming
                that it was based on the D20 system. :)

                > One of the "problems" of most native English speakers is
                > indeed (as said) also that they hardly speak other languages.
                > As a Belgian I speak apart from Dutch (Flemish) also French,
                > English and German.

                Heh, stereotypical comment - most native English speakers don't
                speak other languages...!

                > Most Flemish players just buy the German books and learn
                > to read them. Together with some translated items we have
                > more than enough to play (which doesn't mean I do not
                > support a translation English)

                I agree. I scoured the internet since 1991 and managed to translate
                enough - or ask stuff to be translated - that I could probably play
                an English version of the Dark Eye (probably wrong in many regards
                since I am sure I translated stuff wrong, and stuff gets lost in the
                translation anyway) - ...

                Although - wow, generated a fair amount of traffic here with this
                discussion. :)
              • Michael Sprague
                ... I have to disagree with this. While D&D may be Fantasy, Fantasy is not D&D. D&D comes with many pre-conceived notions and restrictions (granted, d20 less
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 6, 2006
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                  > See, this is something I saw in another message. Dark Eye
                  > is not D&D. It's not "Dungeons & Dragons" specifically
                  > - no. Since D&D is a generic term. It's like saying, "My
                  > Nissan is not a car! It's a Nissan XTerra!"

                  I have to disagree with this. While D&D may be Fantasy, Fantasy
                  is not D&D. D&D comes with many pre-conceived notions and
                  restrictions (granted, d20 less so than earlier editions), so no,
                  D&D is not a generic term.

                  To put it in the terms you wrote, "No my A10 Warthog is not a
                  car! But it is a Vehicle!" :-)

                  I can't really disagree with the rest of what you wrote, even
                  though it's not quit my viewpoint.

                  ~ Mike


                  --- Tawmis <tyragon@...> wrote:

                  > > What I meant is that I, like a number of people, am sick of
                  > all
                  > > the mass of d20 stuff. The d20 system is okay ... better
                  > than I
                  > > origionally thought ... but I don't care to see yet another
                  > d20
                  > > conversion. Many game worlds lose their charm when you try
                  > to
                  > > force fit them into the d20 system.
                  >
                  > You know the kicker? I am by no means a fan of the D20 system
                  > myself. I by and far prefer 2nd Edition - and that's because I
                  > am an
                  > old man (mule?) and very set in my ways. I know 2ndE AD&D back
                  > and
                  > forth. The D20 system is all right - but too drastically
                  > different
                  > for me.
                  >
                  > However, because so many people now use the D20 system, and
                  > it's
                  > pretty much widely accepted - it would be easier to "lure"
                  > people
                  > into checking out Darkeye if it was a system they might be more
                  >
                  > familiar with rather than sighing at trying to learn a new set
                  > of
                  > rules, and suffering slow downs, when ye need to pause and
                  > check a
                  > specific rule.
                  >
                  > > As you wrote it, I don't disagree at all. However, I really
                  > > don't think you get it. It has little or nothing to do with
                  > the
                  > > "dice system," and everything to do with the "game system."
                  > > I'm not about to get into a debate on the pros and cons of
                  > the
                  > > d20 System here. I have and can play it ... but it would
                  > never
                  > > be my first choice.
                  >
                  > Well, it would never be my first choice either. Now, obviously
                  > it's
                  > not going to ever be the D20 System, since they have already
                  > released it and we know that much. However, with the lack of
                  > support
                  > Darkeye is getting - I can already seeing it fold before it
                  > ever
                  > truly got off the ground - and that would be a shame. And I
                  > think if
                  > it was the D20 system, at least more people would try their
                  > hand at
                  > it. When there's only one book (and two VERY SMALL suppliments)
                  > -
                  > there's no interest in purchasing it because you can't do much
                  > with
                  > what has been handed out.
                  >
                  > > Thrid, one of the attractions of the Dark Eye is that it is
                  > not
                  > > based on D&D. Pulling things from the DM's Guide or the
                  > Monster
                  > > Manual are for D&D, not for The Dark Eye. The whole idea
                  > makes
                  > > me cringe.
                  >
                  > See, this is something I saw in another message. Dark Eye is
                  > not
                  > D&D. It's not "Dungeons & Dragons" specifically - no. Since D&D
                  > is a
                  > generic term. It's like saying, "My Nissan is not a car! It's a
                  >
                  > Nissan XTerra!"
                  >
                  > For it not being "D&D" - what separates it (in my silly view)
                  > is
                  > that it's a "dedicated world" - meaning it already has a
                  > history, a
                  > setting, a map, etc. This isn't a world someone's making up
                  > during
                  > their own campaign.
                  >
                  > Dark Eye DOES however have Orcs. Goblins. And an assortment of
                  > other
                  > creatures that are in the Monster Manual(s) that could be
                  > referenced
                  > if it had been a D20 system and we never get a "Monster Manual"
                  > type
                  > book out of The Dark Eye. But if we never get a "Monster
                  > Manual"
                  > type thing for Dark Eye - what do we base our monsters off of?
                  > Or if
                  > we never get a book that shows spells? What would we base our
                  > spells
                  > off of?
                  >
                  > Like I said - the whole idea/desire of Dark Eye being D20 for
                  > me
                  > isn't because I am a die hard fan of the D20 system. As I said
                  > up
                  > there, I am not a fan. I prefer AD&D 2ndE by far. However, I do
                  >
                  > realize that D20 is a widely accepted "game version" out there.
                  > And
                  > if it meant possibly having something to draw from - even if
                  > was
                  > from other books (goblins and orcs from the Monster Manual(s)
                  > and
                  > what not) - then we would at least have something!
                  >
                  > I have waited since the "Realms of Arkania" PC Games (which
                  > goes
                  > back to 1991!) for the Dark Eye to be "imported/exported" into
                  > an
                  > English version. I scourged the web and found versions of it
                  > and
                  > would do my best to translate as much as I could on my own. And
                  > when
                  > I couldn't, I went so far as to ask folks on my Realms of
                  > Arkania
                  > list (http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/realmsofarkania for
                  > anyone
                  > interested) which I started back in 1999.
                  >
                  > And I am gonna be torqued if Dark Eye flops and we never get
                  > more
                  > books out of it to make it a game we can play.
                  >
                  > So the entire idea/desire of Dark Eye being D20 is born out of
                  > fear
                  > of lack of support and the failure of the game because of said
                  > lack
                  > of support.
                  >
                  > > I completly understand that sentiment. No way would I
                  > suggest
                  > > you sit on your ass and wait ... but until "The World of
                  > > Aventuria" comes out (if ever), I suggest that the books sit
                  > on
                  > > the shelf and wait, because they are not going to do your or
                  > your
                  > > players any good anyway ... even if you do convert them to
                  > d20.
                  > > :-)
                  >
                  > Oh trust me, I could never convert it to D20 myself. I have
                  > played
                  > in the D20 world and what not - but there's no way I know
                  > enough
                  > about it to convert it myself. And Dark Eye is an extremely
                  > complex
                  > game with a lot of "extra things" that would make a D20 n0ob
                  > like
                  > myself throw myself off a bridge if I tried to convert it. :)
                  >
                  > Like I said... D20 for Dark Eye just cuz of the fear of it
                  > flopping
                  > due to lack of support. :)
                  >
                  > > Hi my Name is Chris House , and I JUST BEEN LURKING
                  > > FOR THE PAST THREE MONTHS litening and watching. I
                  > > found Dark Eye in our local resale book shoppe called
                  > > Hlaf price. let it set there for a month before I
                  > > finnaly thought I had the time to explore another
                  > > fantasy game! but its main attraction was it was
                  > > diffrent- diffrent from d20, diffrent as in from
                  > > another country and I wanted to see how another
                  > > country would design an rpg.
                  >
                  > Oh, trust me. I can understand that completely. My first
                  > introduction to "The Dark Eye" was through the PC Games "Realms
                  > of
                  > Arkania" (which if folks here have not played, I STRONGLY
                  > recommend
                  > them, especially Star Trail). Having seen the world through the
                  >
                  > game, and the complex, yet amazing character sheets (you could
                  > export the characters to text files, which was nice!) - I was
                  > hooked. I wanted to know more about this game. (And this was
                  > before
                  > D20 was ever a twinkle in someone's eye - since this was back
                  > in
                  > 1991!)
                  >
                  > > the conversion issue is typical of us Americans, we do
                  > > not learn other languages and we are on another
                  > > continent, this makes anything that is not big or go
                  > > big kind get left in the dirt
                  >
                  > LOL! Well I speak English and two other languages! :-P
                  >
                  > > I like the game, but I find more interested games out
                  > > there that is not D20 and has more allure. Lord of the
                  > > rings rpg -master pieace of a game- <not D20>
                  >
                  > Yeah but with the success of the movie - LotR will have a ton
                  > of
                  > support (and a ton of money) to pour into other products, such
                  > as an
                  > RPG.
                  >
                  > I am pretty sure FanPro doesn't have those kind of resources,
                  > or
                  > money...
                  >
                  > > I Agree with many things Michael says here.
                  > > 1) The problem of The Dark Eye is not the system but the
                  > > support. Changing the TDE system to D20 would'nt change
                  > > the lack of Englisch support.
                  >
                  > You are correct. If it was D20 they wouldn't be making the
                  > books we
                  > need any faster. However, if we are DMing our little game and
                  > we
                  > need a goblin - we can pull out the regular Monster Manual, and
                  >
                  > throw it against our players in Arkania.
                  >
                  > So it wouldn't increase the support FOR Arkania, but it would
                  > establish a back up plan for DMs (and players) in case all we
                  > get
                  > out of this is one book and two VERY small suppliments.
                  >
                  > Again - I can't emphasize enough - I am not a fan of the D20
                  > system.
                  > I don't want it because it would be easier on me. The only
                  > reason I
                  > would want it is because at least I know just about every
                  > monster in
                  > Arkania can be found in one of the other many D20 system books
                  > - or
                  > could be made easily with the D20 system. All you have to do as
                  > a DM
                  > is keep the rest of it true to the world of Arkania.
                  >
                  > > 2) A part of that the TDE system is typical for the game,
                  > > another system would probably not fit (in my opinion)
                  >
                  > Oh, I agree. Heck, even the character sheets are far more
                  > complex
                  > than the D20 system type characters - so trying to find a way
                  > to
                  > make that all work in the D20 system would have been a virtual
                  > nightmare.
                  >
                  > > 3) Taking info from other games (e.g. like D&D or
                  > > Warhammer) doesn't fit at all.
                  >
                  > Okay - see this is the one someone has to explain to me. Isn't
                  > a
                  > goblin just a goblin? Isn't an orc just an orc? A lot of the
                  > monsters from other games - in my eyes - could be brought over
                  > (if
                  > they exist in Arkania - obviously, bringing in Draconians from
                  > Dragonlance would not work - but monsters that exist in Arkania
                  > and
                  > exist in other books could easily be brought over) - again,
                  > assuming
                  > that it was based on the D20 system. :)
                  >
                  > > One of the "problems" of most native English speakers is
                  > > indeed (as said) also that they hardly speak other languages.
                  > > As a Belgian I speak apart from Dutch (Flemish) also French,
                  > > English and German.
                  >
                  > Heh, stereotypical comment - most native English speakers don't
                  >
                  > speak other languages...!
                  >
                  > > Most Flemish players just buy the German books and learn
                  > > to read them. Together with some translated items we have
                  > > more than enough to play (which doesn't mean I do not
                  > > support a translation English)
                  >
                  > I agree. I scoured the internet since 1991 and managed to
                  > translate
                  > enough - or ask stuff to be translated - that I could probably
                  > play
                  > an English version of the Dark Eye (probably wrong in many
                  > regards
                  > since I am sure I translated stuff wrong, and stuff gets lost
                  > in the
                  > translation anyway) - ...
                  >
                  > Although - wow, generated a fair amount of traffic here with
                  > this
                  > discussion. :)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


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                • kidt cordry
                  ... Although - wow, generated a fair amount of traffic here with this discussion. :) That is because there is little else to talk about on the English list. I
                  Message 8 of 11 , Mar 6, 2006
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                    --- Tawmis <tyragon@...> wrote:

                    Although - wow, generated a fair amount of traffic
                    here with this
                    discussion. :)

                    That is because there is little else to talk about on
                    the English list.

                    I wonder, how active are the German TDE boards? Do
                    they acutally discuss the game itself much?

                    I'm in a military town here in Savannah, and I have a
                    lot of Military and military brat friends who have
                    lived in Germany and are gamers. I asked them about
                    TDE...while they were in Germany they played D&D and
                    didn't even know that TDE existed.

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                  • sapallyo
                    ... I won t sign that. For one reason: Orcs and goblins deserve to not being called monsters in TDE. They have their own special culture and community. The
                    Message 9 of 11 , Mar 7, 2006
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                      --- In darkeye@yahoogroups.com, "Tawmis" <tyragon@...> wrote:

                      > Okay - see this is the one someone has to explain to me. Isn't a
                      > goblin just a goblin? Isn't an orc just an orc? A lot of the
                      > monsters from other games - in my eyes - could be brought over (if
                      > they exist in Arkania - obviously, bringing in Draconians from
                      > Dragonlance would not work - but monsters that exist in Arkania and
                      > exist in other books could easily be brought over) - again, assuming
                      > that it was based on the D20 system. :)

                      I won't sign that. For one reason:
                      Orcs and goblins deserve to not being called "monsters" in TDE. They
                      have their own special culture and community. The orcs are known for
                      their brave and proud warriors, they are no "swordfood" like in other
                      Fantasy-RPGs (for example in a contest orc vs. human, the orc would
                      win). And of course they are black-furred ;-). And the goblins are
                      natural-born hunters and so they fight. But they also home-loving
                      people.
                      What I want to say, is if you want an orc or a goblin as a foe in
                      combat for your heroesin TDE, you can't describe an orc without his
                      bravery, proud and his concept of war, and a goblin without his
                      cleverness and tendency to set traps and avoiding to get in close
                      combat with a stronger foe.

                      The point is, if you want to have foes for your heroes, that are
                      variing in parameters, you can transfer them from other monsterbooks.
                      If you want, that orcs and goblins live in Aventuria, have an
                      influence on this world and are influenced by it, you cannot transfer
                      them from other systems. Because in this case a goblin isn't just a
                      goblin and an orc isn't just an orc. They fit in Aventuria.

                      Maybe the question also is, if you want to play a Fantasy-RPG or TDE.
                      If you want to play TDE only because you want to play a Fantasy-RPG,
                      you can easily bring over monsters from other systems. But if you want
                      to play TDE because of TDE, you have to catch the special flair. Then
                      it is important that creatures fit in Aventuria. That they are a
                      coherent part of the world. And this is not as easy as it may sound
                      because of the relatively dense(?) described world.


                      Greetings
                    • Michel
                      Hmm... Those description do not vary all that much from those in the AD&D books. And the descriptions in the TDE basic rule book don t even come close to that.
                      Message 10 of 11 , Mar 8, 2006
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                        Hmm...

                        Those description do not vary all that much from those in the AD&D
                        books.

                        And the descriptions in the TDE basic rule book don't even come close
                        to that.
                        Unles Fanpro provides us with the slightest sliver of translated
                        background on Arkadia, how would one know what the Orks and Goblins are
                        like there ?

                        I really like the rules system, but it lacks a campaign setting that's
                        in a language I can read. Been like that for years (it's been over a
                        decade by now since the Dutch translations went horribly wrong).

                        I quit waiting for it some time ago and are now playing in my own self-
                        created world, populated by monsters converted from 2nd AD&D and
                        various other games.

                        --- In darkeye@yahoogroups.com, "sapallyo" <chrischi.wtg@...> wrote:

                        > I won't sign that. For one reason:
                        > Orcs and goblins deserve to not being called "monsters" in TDE. They
                        > have their own special culture and community. The orcs are known for
                        > their brave and proud warriors, they are no "swordfood" like in other
                        > Fantasy-RPGs (for example in a contest orc vs. human, the orc would
                        > win). And of course they are black-furred ;-). And the goblins are
                        > natural-born hunters and so they fight. But they also home-loving
                        > people.
                        > What I want to say, is if you want an orc or a goblin as a foe in
                        > combat for your heroesin TDE, you can't describe an orc without his
                        > bravery, proud and his concept of war, and a goblin without his
                        > cleverness and tendency to set traps and avoiding to get in close
                        > combat with a stronger foe.
                        >
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