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Re: Quick Question: 4 Club Juggling

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  • michael brown
    Akira Yamamoto - Hi!  I am one of the contact people - there are also many others, you are welcome to contact any, or all, of us... Bit of theory will help
    Message 1 of 3 , Jun 15, 2011
      Akira Yamamoto -

      Hi!  I am one of the contact people - there are also many others, you are
      welcome to contact any, or all, of us...

      Bit of theory will help here - when we talk about using "singles", "doubles"
      or"triples" in a juggling pattern, we generally are indicating the height of the
      throw, not the number of spins.  People usually throw that number of spins also
      - but it is the height of the throw that is important to making the pattern
      work.  Keep that in mind...

      A Single is normally thrown at about eye level, or the top of your head.  A
      single spin fits comfortably into this height.
      For Doubles, raise your hand over your head with your arm extended - that is
      probably about the height you want to be throwing doubles.  A double spin fits
      comfortably into this height.
      For Triples, imagine a point about 2 to 3 feet above your hand when it is raised
      overhead.  Throwing clubs accurately at this height takes a lot of practice -
      but triple spins fit comfortably into this height.

      The typical four club juggling pattern is juggling two clubs in the left hand,
      and two clubs in the right hand.  The clubs stay in the same hand, and don't
      cross, and the clubs are generally thrown as doubles - the height that a double
      spin would normally be thrown. 


      Four clubs are typically done with double spins, but it is not necessary. 
      Double spins are convenient - they fit well into the height you are throwing
      your clubs.  You could also throw single spins, triple spins, or flats (zero
      spins).  But most people find these to be more difficult than double spins. 
      (You could also throw reverse spins or helicopter spins - but that would be
      masochistic).

      There are also many different 4-club patterns that can be juggled.  One pattern
      called "triple-singles"  is a crossing pattern, where the clubs cross from one
      hand to the other, and uses a combination
      triple-height and single-height throws (usually with triple spins and single
      spins, also).  It is cool looking, and many people find it easier than doing
      double patterns in each hand.

      I notice you have a Sacramento area code.  We are meeting in Sacramento at
      McKinley Park on Friday evening, and then again on Saturday from about 2 to 4 in
      the afternoon.  There are several people who typically juggle 4 and 5 clubs at
      the meetings, and who would be glad to talk or work with you.

      (Anybody who has more - or, other - ideas, please join in...)

      Try Damento.org or Yahoo Groups.com  Damento Juggling.

      Let me know if you have any other questions.



      ________________________________
      From: "Yamamoto, Akira@EDD" <Akira.Yamamoto@...>
      To: "msbrown1433@..." <msbrown1433@...>; "tatracy@..."
      <tatracy@...>
      Sent: Wed, June 15, 2011 1:19:56 PM
      Subject: Quick Question: 4 Club Juggling


      Hello—
       
      I notice you are the Damento contacts.
       
      I have a question about 4 club juggling.
       
      I’m trying to progress from 3 to 4 clubs.
       
      It’s not easy.
       
      Here’s my question:
       
      When 4 club juggling, is it necessary to do double spins?
       
      I’ve been trying with single spins but it doesn’t seem to work.
       
      Help.
       
      Thanks a mil.
       
      Akira Yamamoto
      916.654.9722

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • michael brown
      You are very welcome!  Glad it was intelligible, and hope it helps. Actually one set of a four club fountain is an excellent place to be... One of the things
      Message 2 of 3 , Jun 16, 2011
        You are very welcome!  Glad it was intelligible, and hope it helps.

        Actually one set of a four club fountain is an excellent place to be...

        One of the things I often counsel people is to avoid is attempting to master a
        trick all at once.  For example - don't focus on doing a four club fountain
        flawlessly.  This is a long term goal, and will take hundreds of hours
        of dedicated practice.  Instead, focus on doing just one more throw.
         
        If you can do two consecutive throws, then strive - and focus - on doing three
        consecutive throws.  Not perfect, not even pretty, perhaps not even catching it
        - just get one more consecutive throw into the pattern.  This is a practical
        short-term goal, one you can realistically accomplish in a day, or a week. 
        Something that is not likely to frustrate or demoralize you...

        Then focus on competing four consecutive throws.  (Note that in order to add one
        more throw into the pattern, you have to catch a club.  And, in order to catch
        the club, your throws have to be pretty consistent and precise, always landing
        in the same spot.  So, the catching part kinda sorts itself out while you are
        just practicing throws.)

        Then focus on completing five consecutive throws.  And, so on...

        By the time you get to about 10 or 12 consecutive throws, the pattern will start
        to sort itself out.  At that point, then you might start to focus on some
        structural or cosmetic issues - left hand throwing slightly lower or slower than
        the right hand, tending to turn to the right or left because one hand is
        throwing a wider pattern, etc.  Once again, the key is not to try to make the
        whole thing perfect - just pick out one little issue, and work on that.  If you
        focus on the little things - the things that are easier to work with, then the
        big stuff will come together by itself.

        Be patient with yourself - four clubs and 5 balls are difficult tricks. 

        Both are past the point where the mind can take an active part in the process. 
        Things are happening too quickly to see it, process it, make a decision, and
        then send a signal to moveyour body in time to make a successful adjustment. 
        So, most of the action is taking place by rote, out of body memory.  Until you
        can enough practice to have developed body memeory for those movements, you are
        pretty much going to fail - you just can't respond fast enough to keep the clubs
        or balls up.  When your body learns to make consistent throws by reflex, then
        your pattern will start to come together.

        Until then, just relax and let the process unfold.  Work on doing things that
        re-inforce the good habits and the body memory you are trying to develop. Just
        make one more good throw, and don't worry about the whole pattern. 


        Good luck.

        Mike

        ________________________________
        From: "Yamamoto, Akira@EDD" <Akira.Yamamoto@...>
        To: michael brown <msbrown1433@...>
        Sent: Thu, June 16, 2011 3:45:47 PM
        Subject: RE: Quick Question: 4 Club Juggling


        Hi Mike—
         
        Thanks a mil for the in-depth explanation & demystification of 4 club juggling.
         
        I’ll follow your instructions & hopefully it will come in time.
         
        So far I can only do 1 set of a 4 throw fountain.
         
        Same with the 5 ball cascade but at least it’s a start.
         
        I appreciate your advice & hope to participate in Damento events.
         
        Akira Yamamoto
        916.654.9722

        ________________________________

        From:michael brown [mailto: msbrown1433@... ]
        Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 4:00 PM
        To: Yamamoto, Akira@EDD
        Cc: damento@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: Quick Question: 4 Club Juggling
         
        Akira Yamamoto -
         
        Hi!  I am one of the contact people - there are also many others, you are
        welcome to contact any, or all, of us...
         
        Bit of theory will help here - when we talk about using "singles", "doubles"
        or"triples" in a juggling pattern, we generally are indicating the height of the
        throw, not the number of spins.  People usually throw that number of spins also
        - but it is the height of the throw that is important to making the pattern
        work.  Keep that in mind...
         
        A Single is normally thrown at about eye level, or the top of your head.  A
        single spin fits comfortably into this height.
        For Doubles, raise your hand over your head with your arm extended - that is
        probably about the height you want to be throwing doubles.  A double spin fits
        comfortably into this height.
        For Triples, imagine a point about 2 to 3 feet above your hand when it is raised
        overhead.  Throwing clubs accurately at this height takes a lot of practice -
        but triple spins fit comfortably into this height.
         
        The typical four club juggling pattern is juggling two clubs in the left hand,
        and two clubs in the right hand.  The clubs stay in the same hand, and don't
        cross, and the clubs are generally thrown as doubles - the height that a double
        spin would normally be thrown. 

         
        Four clubs are typically done with double spins, but it is not necessary. 
        Double spins are convenient - they fit well into the height you are throwing
        your clubs.  You could also throw single spins, triple spins, or flats (zero
        spins).  But most people find these to be more difficult than double spins. 
        (You could also throw reverse spins or helicopter spins - but that would be
        masochistic).
         
        There are also many different 4-club patterns that can be juggled.  One pattern
        called "triple-singles"  is a crossing pattern, where the clubs cross from one
        hand to the other, and uses a combination
        triple-height and single-height throws (usually with triple spins and single
        spins, also).  It is cool looking, and many people find it easier than doing
        double patterns in each hand.
         
        I notice you have a Sacramento area code.  We are meeting in Sacramento at
        McKinley Park on Friday evening, and then again on Saturday from about 2 to 4 in
        the afternoon.  There are several people who typically juggle 4 and 5 clubs at
        the meetings, and who would be glad to talk or work with you.
         
        (Anybody who has more - or, other - ideas, please join in...)
         
        Try Damento.org or Yahoo Groups.com  Damento Juggling.
         
        Let me know if you have any other questions.
         

        ________________________________

        From:" Yamamoto, Akira@EDD " <Akira.Yamamoto@...>
        To: " msbrown1433@... " < msbrown1433@... >; " tatracy@... "
        < tatracy@... >
        Sent: Wed, June 15, 2011 1:19:56 PM
        Subject: Quick Question: 4 Club Juggling
        Hello—
         
        I notice you are the Damento contacts.
         
        I have a question about 4 club juggling.
         
        I’m trying to progress from 3 to 4 clubs.
         
        It’s not easy.
         
        Here’s my question:
         
        When 4 club juggling, is it necessary to do double spins?
         
        I’ve been trying with single spins but it doesn’t seem to work.
         
        Help.
         
        Thanks a mil.
         
        Akira Yamamoto
        916.654.9722

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jonathan Burke
        Akira: Also, you might be interested in club passing with our members at Friday (Sac - McKinley Park) or Tuesday (Davis - Farmer s Market) meet-ups. Jonathan
        Message 3 of 3 , Jun 16, 2011
          Akira:

          Also, you might be interested in club passing with our members at Friday (Sac - McKinley Park) or Tuesday (Davis - Farmer's Market) meet-ups.

          Jonathan

          On Jun 16, 2011, at 4:29 PM, michael brown wrote:

          > You are very welcome! Glad it was intelligible, and hope it helps.
          >
          > Actually one set of a four club fountain is an excellent place to be...
          >
          > One of the things I often counsel people is to avoid is attempting to master a
          > trick all at once. For example - don't focus on doing a four club fountain
          > flawlessly. This is a long term goal, and will take hundreds of hours
          > of dedicated practice. Instead, focus on doing just one more throw.
          >
          > If you can do two consecutive throws, then strive - and focus - on doing three
          > consecutive throws. Not perfect, not even pretty, perhaps not even catching it
          > - just get one more consecutive throw into the pattern. This is a practical
          > short-term goal, one you can realistically accomplish in a day, or a week.
          > Something that is not likely to frustrate or demoralize you...
          >
          > Then focus on competing four consecutive throws. (Note that in order to add one
          > more throw into the pattern, you have to catch a club. And, in order to catch
          > the club, your throws have to be pretty consistent and precise, always landing
          > in the same spot. So, the catching part kinda sorts itself out while you are
          > just practicing throws.)
          >
          > Then focus on completing five consecutive throws. And, so on...
          >
          > By the time you get to about 10 or 12 consecutive throws, the pattern will start
          > to sort itself out. At that point, then you might start to focus on some
          > structural or cosmetic issues - left hand throwing slightly lower or slower than
          > the right hand, tending to turn to the right or left because one hand is
          > throwing a wider pattern, etc. Once again, the key is not to try to make the
          > whole thing perfect - just pick out one little issue, and work on that. If you
          > focus on the little things - the things that are easier to work with, then the
          > big stuff will come together by itself.
          >
          > Be patient with yourself - four clubs and 5 balls are difficult tricks.
          >
          > Both are past the point where the mind can take an active part in the process.
          > Things are happening too quickly to see it, process it, make a decision, and
          > then send a signal to moveyour body in time to make a successful adjustment.
          > So, most of the action is taking place by rote, out of body memory. Until you
          > can enough practice to have developed body memeory for those movements, you are
          > pretty much going to fail - you just can't respond fast enough to keep the clubs
          > or balls up. When your body learns to make consistent throws by reflex, then
          > your pattern will start to come together.
          >
          > Until then, just relax and let the process unfold. Work on doing things that
          > re-inforce the good habits and the body memory you are trying to develop. Just
          > make one more good throw, and don't worry about the whole pattern.
          >
          > Good luck.
          >
          > Mike
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: "Yamamoto, Akira@EDD" <Akira.Yamamoto@...>
          > To: michael brown <msbrown1433@...>
          > Sent: Thu, June 16, 2011 3:45:47 PM
          > Subject: RE: Quick Question: 4 Club Juggling
          >
          > Hi Mike�
          >
          > Thanks a mil for the in-depth explanation & demystification of 4 club juggling.
          >
          > I�ll follow your instructions & hopefully it will come in time.
          >
          > So far I can only do 1 set of a 4 throw fountain.
          >
          > Same with the 5 ball cascade but at least it�s a start.
          >
          > I appreciate your advice & hope to participate in Damento events.
          >
          > Akira Yamamoto
          > 916.654.9722
          >
          > ________________________________
          >
          > From:michael brown [mailto: msbrown1433@... ]
          > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 4:00 PM
          > To: Yamamoto, Akira@EDD
          > Cc: damento@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: Quick Question: 4 Club Juggling
          >
          > Akira Yamamoto -
          >
          > Hi! I am one of the contact people - there are also many others, you are
          > welcome to contact any, or all, of us...
          >
          > Bit of theory will help here - when we talk about using "singles", "doubles"
          > or"triples" in a juggling pattern, we generally are indicating the height of the
          > throw, not the number of spins. People usually throw that number of spins also
          > - but it is the height of the throw that is important to making the pattern
          > work. Keep that in mind...
          >
          > A Single is normally thrown at about eye level, or the top of your head. A
          > single spin fits comfortably into this height.
          > For Doubles, raise your hand over your head with your arm extended - that is
          > probably about the height you want to be throwing doubles. A double spin fits
          > comfortably into this height.
          > For Triples, imagine a point about 2 to 3 feet above your hand when it is raised
          > overhead. Throwing clubs accurately at this height takes a lot of practice -
          > but triple spins fit comfortably into this height.
          >
          > The typical four club juggling pattern is juggling two clubs in the left hand,
          > and two clubs in the right hand. The clubs stay in the same hand, and don't
          > cross, and the clubs are generally thrown as doubles - the height that a double
          > spin would normally be thrown.
          >
          >
          > Four clubs are typically done with double spins, but it is not necessary.
          > Double spins are convenient - they fit well into the height you are throwing
          > your clubs. You could also throw single spins, triple spins, or flats (zero
          > spins). But most people find these to be more difficult than double spins.
          > (You could also throw reverse spins or helicopter spins - but that would be
          > masochistic).
          >
          > There are also many different 4-club patterns that can be juggled. One pattern
          > called "triple-singles" is a crossing pattern, where the clubs cross from one
          > hand to the other, and uses a combination
          > triple-height and single-height throws (usually with triple spins and single
          > spins, also). It is cool looking, and many people find it easier than doing
          > double patterns in each hand.
          >
          > I notice you have a Sacramento area code. We are meeting in Sacramento at
          > McKinley Park on Friday evening, and then again on Saturday from about 2 to 4 in
          > the afternoon. There are several people who typically juggle 4 and 5 clubs at
          > the meetings, and who would be glad to talk or work with you.
          >
          > (Anybody who has more - or, other - ideas, please join in...)
          >
          > Try Damento.org or Yahoo Groups.com Damento Juggling.
          >
          > Let me know if you have any other questions.
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          >
          > From:" Yamamoto, Akira@EDD " <Akira.Yamamoto@...>
          > To: " msbrown1433@... " < msbrown1433@... >; " tatracy@... "
          > < tatracy@... >
          > Sent: Wed, June 15, 2011 1:19:56 PM
          > Subject: Quick Question: 4 Club Juggling
          > Hello�
          >
          > I notice you are the Damento contacts.
          >
          > I have a question about 4 club juggling.
          >
          > I�m trying to progress from 3 to 4 clubs.
          >
          > It�s not easy.
          >
          > Here�s my question:
          >
          > When 4 club juggling, is it necessary to do double spins?
          >
          > I�ve been trying with single spins but it doesn�t seem to work.
          >
          > Help.
          >
          > Thanks a mil.
          >
          > Akira Yamamoto
          > 916.654.9722
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >

          Jonathan Burke
          Home: 916-419-8668
          Cell: 650-465-4861
          email: badicus@...
          www.BurkeVideo.TV







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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