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Re: [dallasaudioclub] Liars, Cheats and Thieves

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  • Jules Ryckebusch
    Wow, I have not met you and I missed the last DAC meeting regretfully, I would like to add that if you leave, you will miss out on the good stuff. Don t let
    Message 1 of 10 , May 11, 2009
      Wow, I have not met you and I missed the last DAC meeting regretfully, I would like to add that if you leave, you will miss out on the good stuff. Don't let the bad stuff/people get to you.
       
      And by the way... I happen to use a lot of Hot Glue in my crossovers, Hang components (small ones!) form others etc. However, I am building for me and my personal enjoyment. I am also not selling my speakers for the price mentioned.
       
      Lee. please stay. I don't even know you but there are not enough of us people around.
       
      Jules


      From: lee_roitberg <lee_roitberg@...>
      To: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2009 10:00:00 AM
      Subject: [dallasaudioclub] Liars, Cheats and Thieves

      As some of you are aware, I posted a factual comment on AudioCircle regarding some VSA pictures. The pictures showed the crossover of a $28,000 speaker. The "cost-no-object anniversary speaker uses very cheap components and hot glue for the crossover. I pointed this fact out and instead of comments regarding the speaker, people who I have never met, made some very unprofessional personal attacks toward me. This even included the CEO of the company!

      The ignorance of Albert Von Schweikert, Gavin Hadley, and others on the forum is just unbelievable and inexcusable.

      I have wasted enough precious time defending honest facts. I have told AudioCircle to go F*!K themselves. I have also realized that some members of the DAC are only interested in personal gain at the expense of audio and worst off, honesty. Scott, good luck pedaling your products.

      With this said, I am taking my leave from the DAC.

      Lee


    • Fred Thompson
      I ve found it s best to self-censor my comments whenever a dealer or a manufacturer is around, either in a meeting or on the manufacturers Audio Circle or
      Message 2 of 10 , May 12, 2009
        I've found it's best to self-censor my comments whenever a dealer or a
        manufacturer is around, either in a meeting or on the manufacturers
        Audio Circle or Audio Asylum sub group. Some can respond constructively
        to factually based, tactfully stated criticisms of their products, but a
        few can't handle any criticism at all. So now I limit my comments about
        audio manufacturers' products and new moms' babies to happy talk about
        how pretty their baby is, even when the baby is ugly and has a stinky
        diaper, because that's what they want to hear. The outcome of hitting a
        hornets' nest with a stick is 100% predictable.

        Now, in fairness to dealers and manufacturers, the use of inexpensive
        crossover parts is dictated by the economic and marketing realities of
        the audio industry. I'm not familiar with VS, but I am with Magnepan.
        The under-$2K Maggie 1.6 uses a 19ga iron core inductor in the woofer
        signal path and a stack of Solen caps in the tweeter circuit.
        Substituting a 12ga air core inductor and Sonicaps will take this
        speaker to a different level, but the cost to upgrade a pair is about
        $250. If Magnepan upgraded their speakers at a cost of only $150 they
        would have to add at least $300 to the price they charge the dealer,
        taking the selling price to well above $2,500 and killing the sales
        volume for this already excellent speaker. Botique quality crossover
        parts are like larger seats on commercial flights - everybody says they
        want them, but few will actually pay the extra price at the time of
        purchase.

        If you want good quality crossover parts, buy speakers from
        non-mainstream direct internet sellers like GR Research, Selah Audio,
        Salk Sound, Tyler Acoustics, and Odyssey Audio. These all include
        premium parts or offer then as upgrades at a reasonable cost.
      • V.G.B.
        Fred , your point makes sense. At the same time, the speaker Lee alluded to is a 20+ K speaker , it is nt really an apples to apples comparison (probably
        Message 3 of 10 , May 12, 2009
          Fred , your point makes sense. At the same time, the speaker Lee alluded to is a 20+ K speaker , it is'nt really an apples to apples comparison (probably closer to an apples to pumpkin comparison).

          For reference, here is the thread in question. http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=67638.0
          Unfortunately, the pictures have been removed.

          I'll let every man make his own judgment on the "logic" (or lack, thereof) and allusions to "more than what meets the eye" arguments.





          From: Fred Thompson <audiofred@...>
          To: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 9:59:49 AM
          Subject: [dallasaudioclub] Re: Liars, Cheats and Thieves


        • Robert Cham
          Having worked for a high end audio console manufacturer, I can attest to the truth of the post below. This particular manufacturer went out of business trying
          Message 4 of 10 , May 12, 2009
            Having worked for a high end audio console manufacturer, I can attest
            to the truth of the post below. This particular manufacturer went
            out of business trying to be the purest in the industry.

            Bob Cham

            >
            >
            >Now, in fairness to dealers and manufacturers, the use of inexpensive
            >crossover parts is dictated by the economic and marketing realities of
            >the audio industry. I'm not familiar with VS, but I am with Magnepan.
            >The under-$2K Maggie 1.6 uses a 19ga iron core inductor in the woofer
            >signal path and a stack of Solen caps in the tweeter circuit.
            >Substituting a 12ga air core inductor and Sonicaps will take this
            >speaker to a different level, but the cost to upgrade a pair is about
            >$250. If Magnepan upgraded their speakers at a cost of only $150 they
            >would have to add at least $300 to the price they charge the dealer,
            >taking the selling price to well above $2,500 and killing the sales
            >volume for this already excellent speaker. Botique quality crossover
            >parts are like larger seats on commercial flights - everybody says they
            >want them, but few will actually pay the extra price at the time of
            >purchase.
            >
            >If you want good quality crossover parts, buy speakers from
            >non-mainstream direct internet sellers like GR Research, Selah Audio,
            >Salk Sound, Tyler Acoustics, and Odyssey Audio. These all include
            >premium parts or offer then as upgrades at a reasonable cost.
          • jimrivers3
            To put in my two cents as founder of the Dallas Audio Club. On our home page is our statement . Copied and pasted below. As you should see, we are not
            Message 5 of 10 , May 12, 2009
              To put in my two cents as founder of the Dallas Audio Club. On our home page is our "statement". Copied and pasted below. As you should see, we are not affiliated with any audio group except Lone Star Bottleheads. Which used to be a Yahoo group like this one before Luther took it up a notch.
               
              A group to further audiophile gatherings, music listening, gear swapping/selling and info sharing for folks in the Dallas / Ft. Worth area. Spread the word about your favorite music on analog and digital formats.
              Also visit our pals at... http://lonestarbottleheads.org/

              As I hope you can see, this group was my (semi-successful?) attempt to bring together those dedicated to the love of music, meeting new people with similar interests and swapping and selling stuff to each other. I could have said mainly for the DIY enthusiast too. But so many of us love music but don't build our own gear. My high hopes fizzled several years ago when only, of the 90 members or so back then, only 5 or 6 of the same people were ever willing to open their homes to meetings. A big dose of reality for me. Because of personal issues, I've backed away from all things audio as a hobby, including this club and audio websites. But will say I am sorry things sometimes (always?) seem to not go smooth when people meet or talk over issues they are passionate about. Good luck getting along in the future.
              jim...

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