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RE: [dallasaudioclub] mod's

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  • Richard Rea
    Did not think about the HDCP license stuff. I have not seen a desired box yet, but have not really looked. Thanks, Richard ... Richard Rea a man of few words
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 23, 2008
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      Did not think about the HDCP license stuff.
      I have not seen a desired box yet, but have not really
      looked.
      Thanks,
      Richard

      --- Dave Thomas <dthomas@...> wrote:

      > Cameron...
      >
      >
      >
      > I have been searching for a "black box" that will
      > decode Lossless PCM
      > soundtracks from HDMI to analog... you see anything
      > that might do this?
      > I have searched to no avail. I want to get the
      > lossless audio from a Blu
      > Ray disc played on a PS3 into an analog 5.1 for HT
      > without having to buy
      > another HT receiver or a different Blu Ray player. I
      > have settled on
      > just waiting for the newer HT receivers to come down
      > in price since no
      > one seems to be offering this type of solution.
      >
      >
      >
      > I have a Blu Ray player in my family room that will
      > decode the Lossless
      > soundtrack onto an analog 5.1 output but the PS3 I
      > use in my theatre
      > room for Blu Ray movies has only stereo analog out,
      > DD on optical or
      > HDMI. My Pioneer Elite HT receiver is not HDMI so I
      > am stuck with Dolby
      > Digital soundtrack.
      >
      >
      >
      > Dave
      >
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      >
      > From: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      > Of Cameron Thorne
      > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:55 AM
      > To: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [dallasaudioclub] mod's
      >
      >
      >
      > There are many outboard solutions for both video
      > scalers and HDMI
      > switchers that can be controlled with RS-232 or
      > infrared remote
      > controls. I would suggest buying an add-on box or
      > replacing your
      > receiver before modifying it. HDMI with HDCP
      > encryption requires very
      > expensive manufacturer licenses, and so I do not
      > think you will find any
      > mod kits or parts for the hobbyist.
      >
      > On Jan 22, 2008 12:47 AM, Richard Rea
      > <my89_928gt@...
      > <mailto:my89_928gt@...> > wrote:
      >
      > Is their anyone local that can mod my a/v reciver? I
      > would like to add
      > HDMI inputs and an
      > output. Would like all inputs too up convert to HDMI
      > 1080.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Richard
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      Richard Rea
      a man of few words :)
    • V.G.B.
      MCM Item 33-10440 will allegedly do this, though at $299, I d seriously question its value over an HT receiver.
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 23, 2008
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        MCM Item 33-10440 will allegedly do this, though at $299, I'd seriously question its value over an HT receiver.

        http://www.mcminone.com/product.asp?product_id=33-10440&catalog_name=MCMProducts

        Best

        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Dave Thomas <dthomas@...>
        To: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 9:25:52 AM
        Subject: RE: [dallasaudioclub] mod's

        Cameron…

         

        I have been searching for a “black box” that will decode Lossless PCM soundtracks from HDMI to analog… you see anything that might do this? I have searched to no avail. I want to get the lossless audio from a Blu Ray disc played on a PS3 into an analog 5.1 for HT without having to buy another HT receiver or a different Blu Ray player. I have settled on just waiting for the newer HT receivers to come down in price since no one seems to be offering this type of solution.

         

        I have a Blu Ray player in my family room that will decode the Lossless soundtrack onto an analog 5.1 output but the PS3 I use in my theatre room for Blu Ray movies  has only stereo analog out, DD on optical or HDMI. My Pioneer Elite HT receiver is not HDMI so I am stuck with Dolby Digital soundtrack.

         

        Dave

         


        From: dallasaudioclub@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:dallasaudio club@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Cameron Thorne
        Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:55 AM
        To: dallasaudioclub@ yahoogroups. com
        Subject: Re: [dallasaudioclub] mod's

         

        There are many outboard solutions for both video scalers and HDMI switchers that can be controlled with RS-232 or infrared remote controls.  I would suggest buying an add-on box or replacing your receiver before modifying it.  HDMI with HDCP encryption requires very expensive manufacturer licenses, and so I do not think you will find any mod kits or parts for the hobbyist.

        On Jan 22, 2008 12:47 AM, Richard Rea <my89_928gt@yahoo. com> wrote:

        Is their anyone local that can mod my a/v reciver? I would like to add HDMI inputs and an
        output. Would like all inputs too up convert to HDMI 1080.

        Thanks,
        Richard

         




        Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
      • Dave Thomas
        Yes... I have seen several boxes like this. It only decodes stereo plus most are not real clear if they will decode all PCM bit streams. I am looking for one
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 23, 2008
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          Yes… I have seen several boxes like this. It only decodes stereo plus most are not real clear if they will decode all PCM bit streams. I am looking for one that has 5.1 outputs or 6 channels of audio not just stereo.

           

          Dave

           


          From: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of V.G.B.
          Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 9:22 PM
          To: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [dallasaudioclub] mod's

           

          MCM Item 33-10440 will allegedly do this, though at $299, I'd seriously question its value over an HT receiver.

          http://www.mcminone .com/product. asp?product_ id=33-10440&catalog_name= MCMProducts

          Best

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Dave Thomas <dthomas@turinnetwor ks.com>
          To: dallasaudioclub@ yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 9:25:52 AM
          Subject: RE: [dallasaudioclub] mod's

          Cameron…

           

          I have been searching for a “black box” that will decode Lossless PCM soundtracks from HDMI to analog… you see anything that might do this? I have searched to no avail. I want to get the lossless audio from a Blu Ray disc played on a PS3 into an analog 5.1 for HT without having to buy another HT receiver or a different Blu Ray player. I have settled on just waiting for the newer HT receivers to come down in price since no one seems to be offering this type of solution.

           

          I have a Blu Ray player in my family room that will decode the Lossless soundtrack onto an analog 5.1 output but the PS3 I use in my theatre room for Blu Ray movies  has only stereo analog out, DD on optical or HDMI. My Pioneer Elite HT receiver is not HDMI so I am stuck with Dolby Digital soundtrack.

           

          Dave

           


          From: dallasaudioclub@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:dallasaudio club@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Cameron Thorne
          Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:55 AM
          To: dallasaudioclub@ yahoogroups. com
          Subject: Re: [dallasaudioclub] mod's

           

          There are many outboard solutions for both video scalers and HDMI switchers that can be controlled with RS-232 or infrared remote controls.  I would suggest buying an add-on box or replacing your receiver before modifying it.  HDMI with HDCP encryption requires very expensive manufacturer licenses, and so I do not think you will find any mod kits or parts for the hobbyist.

          On Jan 22, 2008 12:47 AM, Richard Rea <my89_928gt@yahoo. com> wrote:

          Is their anyone local that can mod my a/v reciver? I would like to add HDMI inputs and an
          output. Would like all inputs too up convert to HDMI 1080.

          Thanks,
          Richard

           

           

           


          Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

        • oscar_in_fw
          I vaguely recall a discussion on this in the audio asylum (hi-rez or video forum?) talking about the practicalities (or lack thereof) to design such a device.
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 24, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            I vaguely recall a discussion on this in the audio asylum (hi-rez or video forum?) talking
            about the practicalities (or lack thereof) to design such a device. i don't think it exists
            (yet), particularly one which can decode DTS HD MA.

            You might consider dumping the PS3 or if you play games in that room, adding a 2nd Blu-
            ray player strictly for movie watching. I found the following link useful.

            http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=980672

            My pre/pro is HDMI-challenged but I'm also using a separate multichannel analog preamp.
            A player with 5.1 analog outputs would be the perfect solution. I have a dual format
            player (LG BH100) which does the trick for now but I will be interested in getting another
            one which decodes DTS HD MA, an audio format Fox studios likes to use with almost all
            their releases. At least with the DTS HD MA discs, I can still decode the 1.5M DTS "core"
            via the Toslink optical connection; you'd still be able to do the same with the PS3.

            --- In dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Thomas" <dthomas@...> wrote:
            >
            > Yes... I have seen several boxes like this. It only decodes stereo plus
            > most are not real clear if they will decode all PCM bit streams. I am
            > looking for one that has 5.1 outputs or 6 channels of audio not just
            > stereo.
            >
            >
            >
            > Dave
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            >
            > From: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of V.G.B.
            > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 9:22 PM
            > To: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [dallasaudioclub] mod's
            >
            >
            >
            > MCM Item 33-10440 will allegedly do this, though at $299, I'd seriously
            > question its value over an HT receiver.
            >
            > http://www.mcminone.com/product.asp?product_id=33-10440&catalog_name=MCM
            > Products
            > <http://www.mcminone.com/product.asp?product_id=33-10440&catalog_name=MC
            > MProducts>
            >
            > Best
            >
            > ----- Original Message ----
            > From: Dave Thomas <dthomas@...>
            > To: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 9:25:52 AM
            > Subject: RE: [dallasaudioclub] mod's
            >
            > Cameron...
            >
            >
            >
            > I have been searching for a "black box" that will decode Lossless PCM
            > soundtracks from HDMI to analog... you see anything that might do this?
            > I have searched to no avail. I want to get the lossless audio from a Blu
            > Ray disc played on a PS3 into an analog 5.1 for HT without having to buy
            > another HT receiver or a different Blu Ray player. I have settled on
            > just waiting for the newer HT receivers to come down in price since no
            > one seems to be offering this type of solution.
            >
            >
            >
            > I have a Blu Ray player in my family room that will decode the Lossless
            > soundtrack onto an analog 5.1 output but the PS3 I use in my theatre
            > room for Blu Ray movies has only stereo analog out, DD on optical or
            > HDMI. My Pioneer Elite HT receiver is not HDMI so I am stuck with Dolby
            > Digital soundtrack.
            >
            >
            >
            > Dave
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            >
            > From: dallasaudioclub@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:dallasaudio
            > club@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Cameron Thorne
            > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:55 AM
            > To: dallasaudioclub@ yahoogroups. com
            > Subject: Re: [dallasaudioclub] mod's
            >
            >
            >
            > There are many outboard solutions for both video scalers and HDMI
            > switchers that can be controlled with RS-232 or infrared remote
            > controls. I would suggest buying an add-on box or replacing your
            > receiver before modifying it. HDMI with HDCP encryption requires very
            > expensive manufacturer licenses, and so I do not think you will find any
            > mod kits or parts for the hobbyist.
            >
            > On Jan 22, 2008 12:47 AM, Richard Rea <my89_928gt@yahoo. com
            > <mailto:my89_928gt@...> > wrote:
            >
            > Is their anyone local that can mod my a/v reciver? I would like to add
            > HDMI inputs and an
            > output. Would like all inputs too up convert to HDMI 1080.
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Richard
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            >
            > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
            > <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http:/www.yahoo.com/r/hs>
            >
          • Dave Thomas
            I think you may be right however there is one company that discussed the possibility of making one but have yet to announce anything. Don t have their name
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 24, 2008
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              I think you may be right however there is one company that discussed the possibility of making one but have yet to announce anything. Don’t have their name here with me. Right now the plan is to just wait and see if Pioneer, Denon or Onkyo drops the price of their HT receivers that support HDMI and lossless decoding. The price of the Pioneer and Denon came down after Christmas a bit but still a little pricey.

               

              The advantage of the PS3 is that it has been well supported with upgrades by Sony and the upgrade process can be done via its wireless internet connection very simple. It already has HDMI 2.0 support loaded. I have a stand alone Sony Blu Ray player (the cheap one)… I am still a little leery with the upgrade process on it and how well it will be supported in the future if at all.

               

              I just thought someone might have seen a box that would do this…. It would help those of us with very good HT receivers that don’t support HDMI. I love the Pioneer Elite receiver I have but it does not support HDMI… such a waste to dump it just for this one additional feature. But alas that is the world of high definition. For now I can get the dolby digital soundtrack off a Blu Ray disc which is not the end of the world…. I guess.

               

              Dave

               


              From: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of oscar_in_fw
              Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 7:42 AM
              To: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [dallasaudioclub] Re: mod's

               

              I vaguely recall a discussion on this in the audio asylum (hi-rez or video forum?) talking
              about the practicalities (or lack thereof) to design such a device. i don't think it exists
              (yet), particularly one which can decode DTS HD MA.

              You might consider dumping the PS3 or if you play games in that room, adding a 2nd Blu-
              ray player strictly for movie watching. I found the following link useful.

              http://www.avsforum .com/avs- vb/showthread. php?t=980672

              My pre/pro is HDMI-challenged but I'm also using a separate multichannel analog preamp.
              A player with 5.1 analog outputs would be the perfect solution. I have a dual format
              player (LG BH100) which does the trick for now but I will be interested in getting another
              one which decodes DTS HD MA, an audio format Fox studios likes to use with almost all
              their releases. At least with the DTS HD MA discs, I can still decode the 1.5M DTS "core"
              via the Toslink optical connection; you'd still be able to do the same with the PS3.

              --- In dallasaudioclub@ yahoogroups. com, "Dave Thomas" <dthomas@... > wrote:

              >
              > Yes... I have seen several boxes like this. It only decodes stereo plus
              > most are not real clear if they will decode all PCM bit streams. I am
              > looking for one that has 5.1 outputs or 6 channels of audio not just
              > stereo.
              >
              >
              >
              > Dave
              >
              >
              >
              > ____________ _________ _________ __
              >
              > From: dallasaudioclub@ yahoogroups. com
              > [mailto:dallasaudioclub@ yahoogroups. com]
              On Behalf Of V.G.B.
              > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 9:22 PM
              > To: dallasaudioclub@ yahoogroups. com
              > Subject: Re: [dallasaudioclub] mod's
              >
              >
              >
              > MCM Item 33-10440 will allegedly do this, though at $299, I'd seriously
              > question its value over an HT receiver.
              >
              >
              href="http://www.mcminone.com/product.asp?product_id=33-10440&catalog_name=MCM">http://www.mcminone .com/product. asp?product_ id=33-10440& catalog_name= MCM
              > Products
              > <
              href="http://www.mcminone.com/product.asp?product_id=33-10440&catalog_name=MC">http://www.mcminone .com/product. asp?product_ id=33-10440& catalog_name= MC
              > MProducts>
              >
              > Best
              >
              > ----- Original Message ----
              > From: Dave Thomas <dthomas@... >
              > To: dallasaudioclub@ yahoogroups. com
              > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 9:25:52 AM
              > Subject: RE: [dallasaudioclub] mod's
              >
              > Cameron...
              >
              >
              >
              > I have been searching for a "black box" that will decode
              Lossless PCM
              > soundtracks from HDMI to analog... you see anything that might do this?
              > I have searched to no avail. I want to get the lossless audio from a Blu
              > Ray disc played on a PS3 into an analog 5.1 for HT without having to buy
              > another HT receiver or a different Blu Ray player. I have settled on
              > just waiting for the newer HT receivers to come down in price since no
              > one seems to be offering this type of solution.
              >
              >
              >
              > I have a Blu Ray player in my family room that will decode the Lossless
              > soundtrack onto an analog 5.1 output but the PS3 I use in my theatre
              > room for Blu Ray movies has only stereo analog out, DD on optical or
              > HDMI. My Pioneer Elite HT receiver is not HDMI so I am stuck with Dolby
              > Digital soundtrack.
              >
              >
              >
              > Dave
              >
              >
              >
              > ____________ _________ _________ __
              >
              > From: dallasaudioclub@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:dallasaudio
              > club@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Cameron Thorne
              > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:55 AM
              > To: dallasaudioclub@ yahoogroups. com
              > Subject: Re: [dallasaudioclub] mod's
              >
              >
              >
              > There are many outboard solutions for both video scalers and HDMI
              > switchers that can be controlled with RS-232 or infrared remote
              > controls. I would suggest buying an add-on box or replacing your
              > receiver before modifying it. HDMI with HDCP encryption requires very
              > expensive manufacturer licenses, and so I do not think you will find any
              > mod kits or parts for the hobbyist.
              >
              > On Jan 22, 2008 12:47 AM, Richard Rea <my89_928gt@ yahoo. com
              > <mailto:my89_ 928gt@... > > wrote:
              >
              > Is their anyone local that can mod my a/v reciver? I would like to add
              > HDMI inputs and an
              > output. Would like all inputs too up convert to HDMI 1080.
              >
              > Thanks,
              > Richard
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ____________ _________ _________ __
              >
              > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
              > <http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=51438/ *http:/www. yahoo.com/ r/hs>
              >

            • Cameron Thorne
              I don t know the legal particulars of the licensing agreements, but I m pretty sure any manufacturer that made a device that output full-resolution
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 26, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                I don't know the legal particulars of the licensing agreements, but I'm pretty sure any manufacturer that made a device that output full-resolution multichannel analog audio from the HDMI stream would have their license revoked by the HDMI group and face litigation.  At least if the signal falls under the rules of HDCP, the other devices must obey the record capability flags in the metadata stream.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a few boxes that might allow stereo downmixes at reduced resolution, or that might decode Dolby Digital bitstream and offer analog output from that, but getting the full signal in analog format is unlikely thanks to paranoid content providers who influence the licenses.

                As far as I know, the only way to get high-resolution multichannel audio from blu-ray is to use an HDMI interface all the way, or get a player with analog outputs and go through an extra DAC->ADC->DAC step.

                -- Cameron
              • Dave Thomas
                Maybe you are misunderstanding what I am looking for. My Sony standalone player will decode the LPCM and output that on 5.1 analog channels. I understand that
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 26, 2008
                • 0 Attachment

                  Maybe you are misunderstanding what I am looking for. My Sony standalone player will decode the LPCM and output that on 5.1 analog channels. I understand that HDMI carries the uncompressed PCM but at some point a DAC has to be used to convert this bitstream to analog obviously the new HT receivers support this conversion. My PS3 does not have an analog output other than stereo it will output LPCM on HDMI but my Pioneer Elite HT receiver does not support HDMI so it is limited to S/PDIF (Dolby Digital, DTS etc…) or analog stereo. Most Blu Ray stand alone players decode LPCM and output the decoded signal via analog 5.1 outputs so it is the analog equivalent of the LPCM. I am wondering if someone is making a box that will take the LPCM bitstream via HDMI and decode this to analog for non-HDMI HT receivers?

                   

                  A player that has an internal DAC that supports LPCM outputs the analog version of this signal on its analog 5.1 outputs. You would not need a DAC for an analog signal so you lost me on your last comment. But you can get high resolution multichannel audio from some players via the analog outputs if the player has an internal DAC built in. My Sony will that is why I bought it because I can get the LPCM soundtrack without the need of a HT receiver that supports HDMI.

                   

                  Dave

                   


                  From: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Cameron Thorne
                  Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 5:13 PM
                  To: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [dallasaudioclub] Re: mod's

                   

                  I don't know the legal particulars of the licensing agreements, but I'm pretty sure any manufacturer that made a device that output full-resolution multichannel analog audio from the HDMI stream would have their license revoked by the HDMI group and face litigation.  At least if the signal falls under the rules of HDCP, the other devices must obey the record capability flags in the metadata stream.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a few boxes that might allow stereo downmixes at reduced resolution, or that might decode Dolby Digital bitstream and offer analog output from that, but getting the full signal in analog format is unlikely thanks to paranoid content providers who influence the licenses.

                  As far as I know, the only way to get high-resolution multichannel audio from blu-ray is to use an HDMI interface all the way, or get a player with analog outputs and go through an extra DAC->ADC->DAC step.

                  -- Cameron

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