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RE: [dallasaudioclub] This Club: New management/ownership

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  • Dave Thomas
    Jim, I can vouch for Blair s enthusiasm and think he would make a great manager of this site. Dave ________________________________ From:
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 16, 2007
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      Jim,

       

      I can vouch for Blair’s enthusiasm and think he would make a great manager of this site.

       

      Dave

       

       


      From: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jim
      Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 11:33 AM
      To: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [dallasaudioclub] This Club: New management/ownership

       

      Hello Blair, My phone number is 972 470 9107. jim...

      Blair Chapman <blair_4@msn. com> wrote:

      Jim,

      I am an enthusiastic young audiophile (28) who really enjoys DIY and
      tweaking. It has been a while since I signed up for the DAC group thus I
      have even forgot my password to log on, but I would be very interested in
      taking over as the group's operator/manager. If you do not mind, could you
      please send me a brief description of the spectrum of the position. Please
      send me a private email and I can provide a phone number and possibly set up
      a time to meet up with you to discuss this. I live in Allen, and if I
      remember correctly, you live in Plano correct?

      Blair Chapman

      >From: "Jim" <jim@fmtunerinfo. com>
      >Reply-To: dallasaudioclub@ yahoogroups. com
      >To: dallasaudioclub@ yahoogroups. com
      >Subject: [dallasaudioclub] This Club: New management/ownershi p
      >Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:30:36 -0000
      >
      > Greetings audio enthusiasts. I would like to turn over the
      >management/ ownership of the Dallas Audio Club Yahoo group to some
      >willing, responsible adult, if there is someone out there who wishes the
      >job. I've decided to cut back on my audio moving and shaking. Not that I
      >was ever a REAL mover and shaker like my friend Fred in Houston . But my
      >concept for us all to meet up and share... whatever... never got farther
      >than a handful who did all the "sharing". Don't know how the Houston
      >Audio Society does it. My hat is off to those great people. Anyway, if
      >no one steps forward, I plan to shut down operation September 1st.
      >Thanks to all for past fun times. 8:-) jim...

      ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
      Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to
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    • Fred
      Jim, you are too generous in describing me as a real mover and shaker in Houston. The one part you got right is the Houston part. I couldn t help but notice
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 19, 2007
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        Jim, you are too generous in describing me as a real mover and shaker
        in Houston. The one part you got right is the Houston part. I
        couldn't help but notice that DAC Yahoo Group participation has
        dwindled to about one post per month. The Houston club, in contrast,
        has a steady stream of posts, and meeting attendance has grown to the
        point where we often can't accommodate everybody in the listening
        room. In addition, there's quite a bit of informal activity, such as
        last week when several of us visited Fred Crowder's house to hear his
        new Acapella speakers.

        I'm not absolutely certain why the difference between the audio clubs
        in two very similar metropolitan areas, but I have some ideas that
        might be helpful to anybody wanting to generate more participation in
        the Dallas club:

        1) The Houston club has defined itself as a "high end audio" club,
        and not a DIY group. I've found that most of the people who have high
        end (read "expensive") audio systems are only passingly interested in
        DIY, and many of the DIY enthusiasts I know aren't interested in
        expensive high end audio equipment. Keeping the high end (HAS) and
        DIY (Lone Star Bottleheads) activities separate has worked well for
        us.

        2) Given the sad state of the high end audio business it's hard to
        raise a good crowd for one club's events, even in a large metro area
        like DFW. In the DFW area you have two, the DAC and the North Texas
        Audio Jam. I never have understood the difference, but I suspect you
        would do better with one high end club and one DIY-oriented club.
        Individuals could choose to participate in either or both.

        3) Every club has turnover, and new members are often more
        enthusiastic than the old guard. We have actively recruited new
        members for the HAS, and many of the regulars from as recently as
        four years ago are no longer very active. About half the participants
        at each meeting are people who have joined within the past two years.
        We tried to advertise at the three local high end audio shops, and
        they have been very helpful in hosting some meetings to demo their
        products, but aren't too interested in advertising our existence to
        their customers. I suspect they fear losing those customers to some
        of our dealer members. Our most effective recruiting tool is very
        simple: I search Audiogon every week for ads posted by audiophiles
        living in the zip code area beginning with "77" (Houston area), and
        send each a message saying "I can't use the (component), but you're
        invited to join our Yahoo Group and our club. Just go the the link
        below for information about our next meeting. Hope to see you there."

        4) The amount of structure you should have in any organization is the
        minimum needed to get the job done. But every club needs some
        structure, and the least that's required is a small group of
        designated leaders who make things happen. After some confusion and
        disorganization at meetings we appointed a President (John Z),
        program director (me), and a treasurer (Sheri). This has been working
        well, and the three of us plan to meet soon to discuss club
        activities and issues like the size of our meeting space, new member
        recruiting, etc. Most people don't want to be leaders for a variety
        of reasons including work/family time conflicts, but if you can't
        find three new people to volunteer each year to lead, then you
        probably don't have a viable club.

        Hope this helps whomever volunteers to take over those slippery DAC
        reins.
      • Jim
        Hi Fred, The high end hobby insted of DIY may be the biggest difference between the two clubs. I remember when my wife and I lived in Houston. We were active
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 19, 2007
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          Hi Fred,

            The high end hobby insted of DIY may be the biggest difference between the two clubs.  I remember when my wife and I lived in Houston. We were active in PTA, Girl Scouts, girls fast pitch softball, etc. It was always the same people running things. Getting volunteers always seemed hard. Guess most clubs and organizations suffer from the same problems. It's just time for me to pull in some of the many irons in this audio fire. Thanks for your thoughts. I've made Russ, Frank and Blair co-owners with me for the present time. Hope the transition(s) go well. We shall see. jim...


          --- In dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" <fredaudio@...> wrote:
          >
          > Jim, you are too generous in describing me as a real mover and shaker
          > in Houston. The one part you got right is the Houston part. I
          > couldn't help but notice that DAC Yahoo Group participation has
          > dwindled to about one post per month. The Houston club, in contrast,
          > has a steady stream of posts, and meeting attendance has grown to the
          > point where we often can't accommodate everybody in the listening
          > room. In addition, there's quite a bit of informal activity, such as
          > last week when several of us visited Fred Crowder's house to hear his
          > new Acapella speakers.
          >
          > I'm not absolutely certain why the difference between the audio clubs
          > in two very similar metropolitan areas, but I have some ideas that
          > might be helpful to anybody wanting to generate more participation in
          > the Dallas club:
          >
          > 1) The Houston club has defined itself as a "high end audio" club,
          > and not a DIY group. I've found that most of the people who have high
          > end (read "expensive") audio systems are only passingly interested in
          > DIY, and many of the DIY enthusiasts I know aren't interested in
          > expensive high end audio equipment. Keeping the high end (HAS) and
          > DIY (Lone Star Bottleheads) activities separate has worked well for
          > us.
          >
          > 2) Given the sad state of the high end audio business it's hard to
          > raise a good crowd for one club's events, even in a large metro area
          > like DFW. In the DFW area you have two, the DAC and the North Texas
          > Audio Jam. I never have understood the difference, but I suspect you
          > would do better with one high end club and one DIY-oriented club.
          > Individuals could choose to participate in either or both.
          >
          > 3) Every club has turnover, and new members are often more
          > enthusiastic than the old guard. We have actively recruited new
          > members for the HAS, and many of the regulars from as recently as
          > four years ago are no longer very active. About half the participants
          > at each meeting are people who have joined within the past two years.
          > We tried to advertise at the three local high end audio shops, and
          > they have been very helpful in hosting some meetings to demo their
          > products, but aren't too interested in advertising our existence to
          > their customers. I suspect they fear losing those customers to some
          > of our dealer members. Our most effective recruiting tool is very
          > simple: I search Audiogon every week for ads posted by audiophiles
          > living in the zip code area beginning with "77" (Houston area), and
          > send each a message saying "I can't use the (component), but you're
          > invited to join our Yahoo Group and our club. Just go the the link
          > below for information about our next meeting. Hope to see you there."
          >
          > 4) The amount of structure you should have in any organization is the
          > minimum needed to get the job done. But every club needs some
          > structure, and the least that's required is a small group of
          > designated leaders who make things happen. After some confusion and
          > disorganization at meetings we appointed a President (John Z),
          > program director (me), and a treasurer (Sheri). This has been working
          > well, and the three of us plan to meet soon to discuss club
          > activities and issues like the size of our meeting space, new member
          > recruiting, etc. Most people don't want to be leaders for a variety
          > of reasons including work/family time conflicts, but if you can't
          > find three new people to volunteer each year to lead, then you
          > probably don't have a viable club.
          >
          > Hope this helps whomever volunteers to take over those slippery DAC
          > reins.
          >

        • Richard Rea
          I think Fred has some good idears. I think that a set day once a month(say every 2nd Sat) the club has meet. That would have an issue of someone needing to
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 19, 2007
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            I think Fred has some good idears.
            I think that a set day once a month(say every 2nd Sat) the club has
            meet. That would have an issue of someone needing to host.

            Could even meet early at a Starbucks for coffe first. Should be
            wraped up by noon or so.

            On another note, I'm very into hiend, but due to wife support I can
            not afforde what I want. Thu, looking to do some small amount of DIY
            hence last post.

            Just my 2cents.

            from the guy with a better sound stage in his car than home.

            Richard


            --- In dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com, "Fred" <fredaudio@...> wrote:
            >
            > Jim, you are too generous in describing me as a real mover and
            shaker
            > in Houston. The one part you got right is the Houston part. I
            > couldn't help but notice that DAC Yahoo Group participation has
            > dwindled to about one post per month. The Houston club, in
            contrast,
            > has a steady stream of posts, and meeting attendance has grown to
            the
            > point where we often can't accommodate everybody in the listening
            > room. In addition, there's quite a bit of informal activity, such
            as
            > last week when several of us visited Fred Crowder's house to hear
            his
            > new Acapella speakers.
            >
            > I'm not absolutely certain why the difference between the audio
            clubs
            > in two very similar metropolitan areas, but I have some ideas that
            > might be helpful to anybody wanting to generate more participation
            in
            > the Dallas club:
            >
            > 1) The Houston club has defined itself as a "high end audio" club,
            > and not a DIY group. I've found that most of the people who have
            high
            > end (read "expensive") audio systems are only passingly interested
            in
            > DIY, and many of the DIY enthusiasts I know aren't interested in
            > expensive high end audio equipment. Keeping the high end (HAS) and
            > DIY (Lone Star Bottleheads) activities separate has worked well for
            > us.
            >
            > 2) Given the sad state of the high end audio business it's hard to
            > raise a good crowd for one club's events, even in a large metro
            area
            > like DFW. In the DFW area you have two, the DAC and the North Texas
            > Audio Jam. I never have understood the difference, but I suspect
            you
            > would do better with one high end club and one DIY-oriented club.
            > Individuals could choose to participate in either or both.
            >
            > 3) Every club has turnover, and new members are often more
            > enthusiastic than the old guard. We have actively recruited new
            > members for the HAS, and many of the regulars from as recently as
            > four years ago are no longer very active. About half the
            participants
            > at each meeting are people who have joined within the past two
            years.
            > We tried to advertise at the three local high end audio shops, and
            > they have been very helpful in hosting some meetings to demo their
            > products, but aren't too interested in advertising our existence to
            > their customers. I suspect they fear losing those customers to some
            > of our dealer members. Our most effective recruiting tool is very
            > simple: I search Audiogon every week for ads posted by audiophiles
            > living in the zip code area beginning with "77" (Houston area), and
            > send each a message saying "I can't use the (component), but you're
            > invited to join our Yahoo Group and our club. Just go the the link
            > below for information about our next meeting. Hope to see you
            there."
            >
            > 4) The amount of structure you should have in any organization is
            the
            > minimum needed to get the job done. But every club needs some
            > structure, and the least that's required is a small group of
            > designated leaders who make things happen. After some confusion and
            > disorganization at meetings we appointed a President (John Z),
            > program director (me), and a treasurer (Sheri). This has been
            working
            > well, and the three of us plan to meet soon to discuss club
            > activities and issues like the size of our meeting space, new
            member
            > recruiting, etc. Most people don't want to be leaders for a variety
            > of reasons including work/family time conflicts, but if you can't
            > find three new people to volunteer each year to lead, then you
            > probably don't have a viable club.
            >
            > Hope this helps whomever volunteers to take over those slippery DAC
            > reins.
            >
          • blrchapman
            Hello guys, As you saw in Jim s post, I as well as a few other members here have stepped up to try to put a new starter motor on this group. I like and
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 19, 2007
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              Hello guys,

              As you saw in Jim's post, I as well as a few other members here have
              stepped up to try to put a new starter motor on this group. I like
              and appreciate what everyone is saying regarding the difference in
              DIY and Hi End audio. I think the line that separates most of these
              two groups is typically funding. AKA the difference between me
              walking into my living room with four ziplocks full of lead shot, and
              another guy walking into the room with super dense pretty weights
              designed for the tops of his speakers custom made in mahoghany and
              zebrawood. What works better? Who knows really?

              What I would really like is as much feedback as I can get to assist
              in trying to make this a better club for everyone.

              Let me introduce myself first,

              My name is Blair Chapman. I live in Allen and have been fairly
              obsessed with audio since I was about 10. I'm 28 now. I'm a big time
              DIYer. As a matter of fact my current system consists of a 6SN7
              preamp, a pretty modded DIYTUBE MKIII (Stereo amplifier), braided
              CAT5 cables, DIY open baffle hybrid speakers (I'll include some
              links), a MHZS CD player that I bought broken from a guy for 150
              bucks and put 50 more into to mod the crap out of it and fix the
              poppy sound or replaced the DAC chip;) So, I can honestly say that
              there ain't a thing in my system that I haven't had a gun on.

              http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1535206

              What I want is your thoughts on the differences between DIY audio
              versus High End audio minus the obvious. This is not meant to strike
              up an arguement, but to assist me in trying to reformat and think of
              some meeting ideas and a "workable" solution.

              Thank all,

              Blair
            • Dennis Boyle
              This might turn out to be an interesting topic. To start off I refer interested members to a definition of high end audio
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 19, 2007
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                This might turn out to be an interesting topic. To start off I refer interested members to a definition of high end audio

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-end_audio and DIY audio http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIY_audio there is enough information in those definitions for every to fell good about themselves.

                 

                I assume most audio enthusiasts, I hate to use the word audiophile, are just trying to end up with a home audio system that gets them closer to the Magic in the Music. I am not sure it is just an issue of affordability, since price doesn’t always mean performance whether you are buying or building.

                 

                Home Audio Stereo sales as a % of the consumer electronics market is shrinking rapidly, at least according to the CES. Many consumers have switched to Home Theater systems which they also use to play Music, but the biggest impact has been MP3, portable DA players and ancillary products that provide an alternative Home Audio System. They just drop their Ipod into an affordable powere stereo speaker console. When I used to get my complimentary Manufacturers copy of Stereophile, they used to send me quarterly surveys on their subscribers. At that time the average age of their subscribers was in the high 50s. How many years does “high end” audio have left. How many perople in their 30s have ever heard a decent Stereo System.

                 

                The good news is that the Web has been a very good thing for Audio, whether you are building or buying a system. There has also been a lot of decent affordable, relatively speaking, audio products that offer excellent performance…especially if you are buying used equipment off the Web.

                 

                Perhaps the question really is, are the traditional ways audio consumers improved their systems still working? Audio Magazines, Audio Dealers and Audio Manufacturers claims are not trusted or believed as they used to be. Many audio consumers surf the web and read customers reviews or ask members of audio groups their opinions on equipment. I hasten to add there is misinformation on the web as well, but in most cases the participants are not as biased or as blatant as the information published by members of the Audio Industry.

                 

                Since this seems to be about the future “path” of the DAC towards success. It might be a good idea to e-mail all the members and have them participate in a survey. Why did they join, how they would like the DAC to be a resource to their needs, etc. and publish the results. It could be that my assumption that all of us joined to find the Magic in the Music might not be valid,                    

                 

                Regards,

                 

                Dennis Boyle

                Chimera Laboratories

                Website: http://www.chimeralabs.com/

                Website: http://home.att.net/~chimeraone/index.html

                 

                 


                From: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of blrchapman
                Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 10:03 PM
                To: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [dallasaudioclub] Re: This Club: New management/ownership

                 

                Hello guys,

                As you saw in Jim's post, I as well as a few other members here have
                stepped up to try to put a new starter motor on this group. I like
                and appreciate what everyone is saying regarding the difference in
                DIY and Hi End audio. I think the line that separates most of these
                two groups is typically funding. AKA the difference between me
                walking into my living room with four ziplocks full of lead shot, and
                another guy walking into the room with super dense pretty weights
                designed for the tops of his speakers custom made in mahoghany and
                zebrawood. What works better? Who knows really?

                What I would really like is as much feedback as I can get to assist
                in trying to make this a better club for everyone.

                Let me introduce myself first,

                My name is Blair Chapman. I live in Allen and have been fairly
                obsessed with audio since I was about 10. I'm 28 now. I'm a big time
                DIYer. As a matter of fact my current system consists of a 6SN7
                preamp, a pretty modded DIYTUBE MKIII (Stereo amplifier), braided
                CAT5 cables, DIY open baffle hybrid speakers (I'll include some
                links), a MHZS CD player that I bought broken from a guy for 150
                bucks and put 50 more into to mod the crap out of it and fix the
                poppy sound or replaced the DAC chip;) So, I can honestly say that
                there ain't a thing in my system that I haven't had a gun on.

                http://www.villagep hotos.com/ pubbrowse. asp?folder_ id=1535206

                What I want is your thoughts on the differences between DIY audio
                versus High End audio minus the obvious. This is not meant to strike
                up an arguement, but to assist me in trying to reformat and think of
                some meeting ideas and a "workable" solution.

                Thank all,

                Blair

              • Tom Russell
                The small number of posts making any response concerning this matter likely says more, and thus brings the DAC situation more into focus, than any other thing
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 20, 2007
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                  The small number of posts making any response concerning this matter likely
                  says more, and thus brings the DAC situation more into focus, than any other
                  thing that might be said. Nevertheless, after mulling over this for a while,
                  I decided to post on this subject.

                  First off, a large word of thanks goes out to Jim, and to Fred, for
                  possessing a lot of initiative and showing a lot of dedication in their
                  efforts to the purpose of creating a viable hifi guy group in our area. No
                  matter what either of them might say, they are the movers and shakers here
                  abouts. As far as I can tell from my view, without their efforts there would
                  be no moving, nor any shaking, going on at all. I have been involved in some
                  aspect of high end/DIY audio for many decades, all in the D/FW area. I have
                  seen several attempts at establishing an audio based group over the years
                  and none of these attemps have led to anything that could be called
                  successful. Maybe there is something endemic to this area?

                  Regarding the thoughts, "Heck I feel you're not a full DAC member until your
                  have hosted a audio meet some kind." and " if you have never hosted a meet
                  before then I feel you have no input or have paid your dues.", if this
                  criteria is to be used, this thread is a useless exercise as the three or
                  four few who have hosted can work this out amongst themselves. My thoughts
                  would be more along the lines that this club has been, if anything, too
                  exclusionary and should do, if anything, whatever is reasonable to encourage
                  participation across as wide a front as could possibly be considered
                  relative to quality audio reproduction. It is obvious that the preponderance
                  of responses to this thread have been from DIY guys.

                  I've always assumed that the DAC/Bottlehead guys and the North Texas Audio
                  Jam guys were, respectively, the Audio Karma guys and the Audio Circle guys.

                  Regarding high end audio vs. DIY audio, the definitions of these
                  disciplines, especially as they relate to ultimate sound quality, are not at
                  all directly relative to the amount of money spent. There are far, far too
                  many examples of both of these disciplines rendering poor quality results.
                  The real problem area lies in the fact that any and all versions of a
                  serious attempt at quality audio reproduction are quickly becoming more and
                  more marginalized to the point of effective extinction. The practical
                  problem, the problem that is certainly very real in the minds of non-audio
                  folks, is that the average audio system, as represented by both high-end,
                  high-dollar and DIY, do not sound very good and therefore do not, and in
                  actuality can not, in any sense that would be generally considered as
                  reasonable, validate their own worth and ultimately can not validate their
                  own existence in the real world. This is the real world battle line. It is
                  true that what remains of the hi-fi scene has generally morphed into home
                  theater. Every time a home-theater-in-a-box is sold, the world goes further
                  away from 2 channel audio. My experience shows me that attempting to combine
                  a home theater surround sound set-up and a 2 channel music set-up into one
                  system is not going to do justice to either discipline. The burden is on
                  those of us who have interest in the viability of the 2 channel music system
                  to demonstrate the value of having such a system to the rest of the world.
                  In this regard, it is obvious that we have failed.

                  On a personal note about hosting, I volunteered, in discussions with both
                  Jim and Fred, to host audio meetings. Those of you who know me know that I
                  am a music guy. All of this equipment stuff is, to my view, strictly there
                  to be in support of the musical statement and the emotional music
                  connection. That said, I do have some good stuff. What I had to offer was a
                  place with sufficient space to accomodate a normally sized group, two
                  complete 2 channel systems [both of which are about as good sounding as you
                  will find anytime, anywhere], many 1000's of all sorts of recordings, chef
                  quality food, and a very flexible schedule. I also have a dedicated theater
                  area that could be available for use. Both of my 2 channel systems are fully
                  hard-wired; audio signal, power supply, and AC. My systems are not conducive
                  to moving different components in and out. In my home, I have only so much
                  space and it has required some specific planning so that everything will
                  have it's own place to be. In both conversations, it was decided that my
                  place was not good for an audio meeting. "These people want to change
                  components around." That was that. When one takes into account that some
                  people don't feel that they have sufficient space to host [should be able to
                  be worked out], some people feel that they don't have a sufficient level of
                  equipment quality to host [shouldn't matter], some people have family issues
                  that they feel preclude hosting, some people feel that they don't have
                  sufficient financial resources to host [should be able to be worked out],
                  etc., etc., and you add in the above paragraph, one can see that there are
                  practical problems, with regard to hosting, that need to be overcome.
                  Should be able to be worked out!

                  All said, I continue to desire to get together with audio guys, particularly
                  music oriented audio guys, just about anytime. Our family is a late night to
                  early morning family and I have most every afternoon and evening open. Y'all
                  are welcome!


                  Tom
                • blrchapman
                  Thank you for this opinion and offer, I agree that Fred and Jim are both very assertive and aggressive towards the needs of the audio community. Granted I
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 20, 2007
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                    Thank you for this opinion and offer,

                    I agree that Fred and Jim are both very assertive and aggressive
                    towards the needs of the audio community. Granted I haven't done
                    anything through this organization, I have assembled several
                    successful DIY events with people driving up from as far as Austin to
                    attend. It is always a pleasure to have these events and the
                    reoccurance of guests obviously shows enjoyment during their visits.
                    As far as loving music, I think we are all in agreement there. I
                    guess that I'm trying to get at is that it was a poorly stated post
                    to try to discern between DIY and Hi End audio enthisiast. I was
                    merely trying to see who posteed on behalf of each type of audio
                    enthusiast. I eagerly look forward to making things happen here and
                    will do my best to introduce some neat and challenging topics
                    tailored towards everyone whether it is source material or distortion
                    figures in various vacuum tubes. I think the idea brought forth about
                    meeting once every month or two in person to dicuss such issues if
                    not just for the sake of having a drink is a good idea as well. Shows
                    support and some form of group interest.

                    Thank you,

                    Blair


                    --- In dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Russell" <tomjoy@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > The small number of posts making any response concerning this
                    matter likely
                    > says more, and thus brings the DAC situation more into focus, than
                    any other
                    > thing that might be said. Nevertheless, after mulling over this for
                    a while,
                    > I decided to post on this subject.
                    >
                    > First off, a large word of thanks goes out to Jim, and to Fred, for
                    > possessing a lot of initiative and showing a lot of dedication in
                    their
                    > efforts to the purpose of creating a viable hifi guy group in our
                    area. No
                    > matter what either of them might say, they are the movers and
                    shakers here
                    > abouts. As far as I can tell from my view, without their efforts
                    there would
                    > be no moving, nor any shaking, going on at all. I have been
                    involved in some
                    > aspect of high end/DIY audio for many decades, all in the D/FW
                    area. I have
                    > seen several attempts at establishing an audio based group over the
                    years
                    > and none of these attemps have led to anything that could be called
                    > successful. Maybe there is something endemic to this area?
                    >
                    > Regarding the thoughts, "Heck I feel you're not a full DAC member
                    until your
                    > have hosted a audio meet some kind." and " if you have never hosted
                    a meet
                    > before then I feel you have no input or have paid your dues.", if
                    this
                    > criteria is to be used, this thread is a useless exercise as the
                    three or
                    > four few who have hosted can work this out amongst themselves. My
                    thoughts
                    > would be more along the lines that this club has been, if anything,
                    too
                    > exclusionary and should do, if anything, whatever is reasonable to
                    encourage
                    > participation across as wide a front as could possibly be considered
                    > relative to quality audio reproduction. It is obvious that the
                    preponderance
                    > of responses to this thread have been from DIY guys.
                    >
                    > I've always assumed that the DAC/Bottlehead guys and the North
                    Texas Audio
                    > Jam guys were, respectively, the Audio Karma guys and the Audio
                    Circle guys.
                    >
                    > Regarding high end audio vs. DIY audio, the definitions of these
                    > disciplines, especially as they relate to ultimate sound quality,
                    are not at
                    > all directly relative to the amount of money spent. There are far,
                    far too
                    > many examples of both of these disciplines rendering poor quality
                    results.
                    > The real problem area lies in the fact that any and all versions of
                    a
                    > serious attempt at quality audio reproduction are quickly becoming
                    more and
                    > more marginalized to the point of effective extinction. The
                    practical
                    > problem, the problem that is certainly very real in the minds of
                    non-audio
                    > folks, is that the average audio system, as represented by both
                    high-end,
                    > high-dollar and DIY, do not sound very good and therefore do not,
                    and in
                    > actuality can not, in any sense that would be generally considered
                    as
                    > reasonable, validate their own worth and ultimately can not
                    validate their
                    > own existence in the real world. This is the real world battle
                    line. It is
                    > true that what remains of the hi-fi scene has generally morphed
                    into home
                    > theater. Every time a home-theater-in-a-box is sold, the world goes
                    further
                    > away from 2 channel audio. My experience shows me that attempting
                    to combine
                    > a home theater surround sound set-up and a 2 channel music set-up
                    into one
                    > system is not going to do justice to either discipline. The burden
                    is on
                    > those of us who have interest in the viability of the 2 channel
                    music system
                    > to demonstrate the value of having such a system to the rest of the
                    world.
                    > In this regard, it is obvious that we have failed.
                    >
                    > On a personal note about hosting, I volunteered, in discussions
                    with both
                    > Jim and Fred, to host audio meetings. Those of you who know me know
                    that I
                    > am a music guy. All of this equipment stuff is, to my view,
                    strictly there
                    > to be in support of the musical statement and the emotional music
                    > connection. That said, I do have some good stuff. What I had to
                    offer was a
                    > place with sufficient space to accomodate a normally sized group,
                    two
                    > complete 2 channel systems [both of which are about as good
                    sounding as you
                    > will find anytime, anywhere], many 1000's of all sorts of
                    recordings, chef
                    > quality food, and a very flexible schedule. I also have a dedicated
                    theater
                    > area that could be available for use. Both of my 2 channel systems
                    are fully
                    > hard-wired; audio signal, power supply, and AC. My systems are not
                    conducive
                    > to moving different components in and out. In my home, I have only
                    so much
                    > space and it has required some specific planning so that everything
                    will
                    > have it's own place to be. In both conversations, it was decided
                    that my
                    > place was not good for an audio meeting. "These people want to
                    change
                    > components around." That was that. When one takes into account that
                    some
                    > people don't feel that they have sufficient space to host [should
                    be able to
                    > be worked out], some people feel that they don't have a sufficient
                    level of
                    > equipment quality to host [shouldn't matter], some people have
                    family issues
                    > that they feel preclude hosting, some people feel that they don't
                    have
                    > sufficient financial resources to host [should be able to be worked
                    out],
                    > etc., etc., and you add in the above paragraph, one can see that
                    there are
                    > practical problems, with regard to hosting, that need to be
                    overcome.
                    > Should be able to be worked out!
                    >
                    > All said, I continue to desire to get together with audio guys,
                    particularly
                    > music oriented audio guys, just about anytime. Our family is a late
                    night to
                    > early morning family and I have most every afternoon and evening
                    open. Y'all
                    > are welcome!
                    >
                    >
                    > Tom
                    >
                  • Ron Carlton
                    There is another fairly active group in the DFW area: DFW_Hornheads http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DFW_Hornheads/ that shouldn t be overlooked. I have two
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 20, 2007
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                      There is another fairly active group in the DFW area: DFW_Hornheads
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DFW_Hornheads/ that shouldn't be
                      overlooked. I have two complete systems with an empty room in which a
                      third could be setup. I certainly have the means to host an event also.

                      Ron
                    • bearhifi
                      Once again it does not matter if your DIY or commercial and this club has never cared what your preferences is. The rule has always been Its your meeting /
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 20, 2007
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                        Once again it does not matter if your DIY or commercial and this
                        club has never cared what your preferences is. The rule has always
                        been "Its your meeting / house and you can do as you please." If
                        you want to only listen to music then that's your choice as long as
                        you post your desires on the board. This has been a simple group of
                        folks looking to have a beer and play around with audio gear. It's
                        not high tech or commercial! That's it in a nut shell. But like I
                        said if one wants to grow the club into something bigger and/or a
                        different direction then I will try to support it.

                        Regarding your comment "this club has been, if anything, too
                        exclusionary." It has become exclusionary because only a hand full
                        of folks actually hold meetings… If more people would volunteer then
                        it would not be so exclusionary, we'd get a variety of perspectives
                        and preferences, and maybe appeal to a broader audience…


                        There should not be any more debates regarding DIY and non-DIY!
                        It's not an issue and if you like and have audio gear of any kind
                        then please feel free to share it with us over a beer (or wine, or
                        tequila, or whatever)… It's that simple really…
                      • jktdet
                        ... Very well said... why don t we just have a meeting and see what happens. Personally I enjoy the chance to talk to other folks listen to a little new music.
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 20, 2007
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                          >
                          >
                          > There should not be any more debates regarding DIY and non-DIY!
                          > It's not an issue and if you like and have audio gear of any kind
                          > then please feel free to share it with us over a beer (or wine, or
                          > tequila, or whatever)… It's that simple really…


                          Very well said... why don't we just have a meeting and see what
                          happens. Personally I enjoy the chance to talk to other folks listen
                          to a little new music. See what people's interests are etc...

                          I will host a meet if anyone is game. I have the space and a system. I
                          can also set things up for easy hook up of other gear.

                          Dave
                        • Dennis Boyle
                          Hopefully more DAC members will participate in this discussion and the postings will help the group reach a consensus that satisfies the needs of a majority of
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 20, 2007
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                            Hopefully more DAC members will participate in this discussion and the postings will help the group reach a consensus that satisfies the needs of a majority of the active members. I can’t believe that the roster shows a membership of over 90 members.

                             

                            I thought I would at least share my own experiences participating in the club. Keep in mind I am in the business, but to be honest, I am not interested in orders from DAC members. I am interested in two things. Using their ears to help me refine the products and to do some serious listening to components and Music.

                             

                            DAC members were a big help in refining the Axiom Amp design. Once again thanks to all who participated. I have lost count of how many new artists and new albums I discovered. It wouldn’t have happened without the listening sessions and look forward to discovering more.

                             

                            To be honest I can do without the large group meetings. I went to a meeting at Bob Spence’s house and took a friend along that was interested in joining the club to listen to some Music. There were a lot of people and a lot of equipment and Music I never got to listen to. The agenda seemed to be more about talking about audio than listening to it. We stayed about 30 minutes and took off.  That’s the last meeting I went to.

                             

                            Since then I have accepted invitations to weekend listening sessions from DAC members when I could. Smaller group of people, in some cases a break for food or none at all. Then we stopped talking and listened to Music. In one listening session the group grew to some number I don’t remember and discussion trumped the Music.

                             

                            I guess what I am saying is it might not be the number of meetings you have or how many meetings take place at different locations. It what members want the agenda of the meeting to be. I don’t care about how many different pieces of equipment there will be or whether there will be munchies. I would like to know whether we will do some serious listening.

                             

                            Regards,          

                             

                             

                            Dennis Boyle

                            Chimera Laboratories

                            Website: http://www.chimeralabs.com/

                            Website: http://home.att.net/~chimeraone/index.html

                             

                             


                            From: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bearhifi
                            Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 7:08 PM
                            To: dallasaudioclub@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [dallasaudioclub] Re: This Club: New management/ownership

                             

                            Once again it does not matter if your DIY or commercial and this
                            club has never cared what your preferences is. The rule has always
                            been "Its your meeting / house and you can do as you please." If
                            you want to only listen to music then that's your choice as long as
                            you post your desires on the board. This has been a simple group of
                            folks looking to have a beer and play around with audio gear. It's
                            not high tech or commercial! That's it in a nut shell. But like I
                            said if one wants to grow the club into something bigger and/or a
                            different direction then I will try to support it.

                            Regarding your comment "this club has been, if anything, too
                            exclusionary. " It has become exclusionary because only a hand full
                            of folks actually hold meetings… If more people would volunteer then
                            it would not be so exclusionary, we'd get a variety of perspectives
                            and preferences, and maybe appeal to a broader audience…

                            There should not be any more debates regarding DIY and non-DIY!
                            It's not an issue and if you like and have audio gear of any kind
                            then please feel free to share it with us over a beer (or wine, or
                            tequila, or whatever)… It's that simple really…

                          • Jim
                            Tom: For whatever reason. Probably my own old fart brain, I never understood you to offer holding a meeting. My bad and sorry. Dennis: In the beginning, I
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 20, 2007
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                              Tom: For whatever reason. Probably my own "old fart" brain, I never understood you to offer holding a meeting. My bad and sorry.
                              Dennis: In the beginning, I wanted the club to be about listening to music, not gear necessarily. That seemed to tick off several folks in one of my early meetings.
                              Frank: You are correct sir. The club rule has always been... the host decides on the format. Music, gear, selling/swapping, whatever. After all, it's his (or her) house. The host makes the rules.
                              Group: Hey, I've got dialog flowing now!
                              Group: This group was meant to be about vinyl, CD and all other formats!  Listening and sharing music.
                               
                                   I've learned a lot since I started the club.
                              One: With 31 people in your house, it's not about the music any more. Plus the cat was crazy for weeks. Two of those was enough.
                              Two: For several months, I asked for people to have a meeting and all I got was dead silence in this group. Except finally for Frank and Russ. Maybe that's when things started to go sour. At least for me.
                              Three: For me, 10 or less at a meeting is as much as my house can hold and still be about the music. One reason I asked members to hold smaller gatherings and report on new music, etc.  That never happened.
                              Four: I'm old and tired and am willing to turn over or share the group with one or more younger leaders who want to try new ideas and things.
                                jim...
                            • jktdet
                              Jim, I am old too. I really guys like Blair and the others will help. Thanks for bringing up Frank... he was the guy who hosted the last two meets I went to. I
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 20, 2007
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                                Jim,

                                I am old too. I really guys like Blair and the others will help.
                                Thanks for bringing up Frank... he was the guy who hosted the last two
                                meets I went to. I like the music aspect... heck I would probably not
                                know who Katie Melua was had I not attended one of these meetings. I
                                use her cds to voice crossovers with. I like the technical side too
                                but I mostly just enjoy people who want to save stereo hifi and
                                realize that ipods are great for airplanes and basically nothing else.

                                I would love to host a meeting and hope you are up to attending.

                                Dave
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