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Re: ISP Utilty To Cypherpunks?

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  • Steve Schear
    ... David, One simple way would be to implement a search warrant circumvention process. I ve recommended this for libraries but there s no reason it wouldn t
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 31, 2002
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      At 10:17 AM 10/30/2002 -0800, you wrote:
      >I'd like to understand how we could be useful to the cypherpunk community.
      >I've got some wild guesses (run a public keyserver, run a mixmaster node,
      >etc), but I don't really know what is most badly needed, or how we could
      >provide the most bang for the bandwidth buck. (We do pay for bandwidth, so
      >"serving up Debian ISOs" is not a viable way we can help the community at
      >this time.) Ideally, we'd like to find applications that don't use a lot of
      >bandwidth (<500kbps aggregate), but require a server that's got a fixed IP,
      >is up all the time, and has very low latency to most of the Net.
      >
      >How can we help?

      David,

      One simple way would be to implement a search warrant circumvention
      process. I've recommended this for libraries but there's no reason it
      wouldn't work for an ISP. After reviewing Federal procedures for subpoena
      I have uncovered a loophole that may not only allow ISPs to provide the
      privacy protection patrons desire but perhaps create a new profit center.

      The efficacy of my approach is based on the presumption that it is lawful
      for the ISP to answer questions from patrons who are not the subject of a
      search warrant or other law enforcement investigation. So, for example, if
      I were to contact you or your staff and request that you tell me if I my
      account records had been requested by law enforcement your staff would be
      under no legal restraint from complying with the request (unless I was, in
      fact, the subject of such an investigation). Should a request be received
      from a patron who was the target of such an investigation, the ISP would
      simply fail to respond. My understanding is that the courts cannot order
      an ISP to act affirmatively and provide a patron with incorrect information
      (i.e., they cannot deputize you and force you to lie to the patron).

      Using this approach patrons can now discover from the ISP whether they are
      the target of any investigation without the ISP taking any affirmative
      action, without the ISP running afoul of the USA Patriot Act or other court
      issued subpoenas. To offset the costs of such activity the ISP could
      impose a small fee against the patron's account for each check of their
      records.

      Implementing such a system will, of course, require a ISP which is prepared
      to place a high enough value of their patron's assumed right of privacy to
      undertake conduct which may be unpopular to law enforcement. Your offer to
      help out in a cypherpunk fashion indicates to me you're that sort of person.

      steve
    • Morlock Elloi
      I see an open search engine as the most important server project. Limit the engine to cpunkish issues and similar to control the popularity (bandwidth). Run
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 31, 2002
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        I see an open search engine as the most important server project. Limit the
        engine to cpunkish issues and similar to control the popularity (bandwidth).
        Run your own harvesters/spiders. This would help limit the google monopoly and
        power and provide a search engine of choice for the (gasp) "community".

        The question is, how does one construct a censorship-free search engine.



        =====
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        (of original message)

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      • Jim Choate
        ... Plan 9 http://plan9.bell-labs.com Hangar 18 http://open-forge.org -- ____________________________________________________________________ We don t see
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 1, 2002
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          On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Morlock Elloi wrote:

          > I see an open search engine as the most important server project. Limit the
          > engine to cpunkish issues and similar to control the popularity (bandwidth).
          > Run your own harvesters/spiders. This would help limit the google monopoly and
          > power and provide a search engine of choice for the (gasp) "community".
          >
          > The question is, how does one construct a censorship-free search engine.

          Plan 9

          http://plan9.bell-labs.com

          Hangar 18

          http://open-forge.org


          --
          ____________________________________________________________________

          We don't see things as they are, ravage@...
          we see them as we are. www.ssz.com
          jchoate@...
          Anais Nin www.open-forge.org

          --------------------------------------------------------------------
        • Jim Choate
          Nin hao, ... Hangar 18 http://open-forge.org (Join the hangar18-general list for direct participation) The sponsoring company In Silica, LLC should go live
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 1, 2002
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            Nin hao,

            On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, David E. Weekly wrote:

            > Cypherpunks,
            >
            > I run a 501(c)(3) non-profit focuses on providing free, donation-based
            > colocation to individuals and other non-profits (i.e., no companies are
            > hosted. Additionally, we try to do things that are useful to the
            > not-for-profit Internet community as a whole; for instance, we run a
            > freenode.info IRC server (freenode is used by a lot of Open Source
            > development groups to coordinate developer teams).
            >
            > I'd like to understand how we could be useful to the cypherpunk community.
            > I've got some wild guesses (run a public keyserver, run a mixmaster node,
            > etc), but I don't really know what is most badly needed, or how we could
            > provide the most bang for the bandwidth buck. (We do pay for bandwidth, so
            > "serving up Debian ISOs" is not a viable way we can help the community at
            > this time.) Ideally, we'd like to find applications that don't use a lot of
            > bandwidth (<500kbps aggregate), but require a server that's got a fixed IP,
            > is up all the time, and has very low latency to most of the Net.
            >
            > How can we help?

            Hangar 18

            http://open-forge.org

            (Join the hangar18-general list for direct participation)

            The sponsoring company In Silica, LLC should go live within the next
            several days (I believe the papers get submitted to the state this
            afternon around 2pm). It will operate via a DBA for "Open Forge" to
            support Open Technology public distributed networks (among other Open
            Technology projects, like a P2P laser comm we're building).

            With respect to Mixmaster, Wolf is already set to begin porting to Plan 9
            as soon as we get the first clusters up (by Jan 1 is our current target).
            We are building machines now. All in all we've got about a half dozen
            volunteers and approximately 40 machines. It is a mix of Linux, Plan 9, &
            BSD. We have one Plan 9 R3 I/O-Auth server installed but not configured
            (these 16/6 weeks at work are killing my project time). We have another
            Plan 9 R4 I/O-Auth server being built. At least two members of Hangar 18
            are building boxes to add. I believe both of these will be process servers
            for the general pool. A core 80G 9P file server will be coming online
            also, limited usage and content type (eg no music swapping/sharing). We
            also have a node in NYC (though it's a little light right now on services
            - Hi Carlos!).

            Zai jian.


            --
            ____________________________________________________________________

            We don't see things as they are, ravage@...
            we see them as we are. www.ssz.com
            jchoate@...
            Anais Nin www.open-forge.org

            --------------------------------------------------------------------
          • Jamie Lawrence
            On Fri, 01 Nov 2002, Jim Choate wrote: Nei sche szche. ... An OS is not a search engine. ... A service might be a search engine. Give plan9 a rest, already.
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 1, 2002
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              On Fri, 01 Nov 2002, Jim Choate wrote:


              Nei sche szche.

              > > The question is, how does one construct a censorship-free search engine.
              >
              > Plan 9
              >
              > http://plan9.bell-labs.com

              An OS is not a search engine.

              > Hangar 18
              >
              > http://open-forge.org

              A service might be a search engine.

              Give plan9 a rest, already. Everyone loves the OS they use.

              (Sorry to respond to Jim, but I'm grumpy this morning.
              Something about coding until 7AM does that to me...)

              -j


              --
              Jamie Lawrence jal@...
              "Naturally the common people don't want war . But after all,
              it is the leaders of a country who determine policy, and it
              is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether
              it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship. All you have
              to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the
              pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to
              danger. It works the same in any country."
              -Hermann Goering
            • Jim Choate
              Your ignornace of technology is showing. You should do more research into 9P. -- ____________________________________________________________________ We don t
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 1, 2002
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                Your ignornace of technology is showing.

                You should do more research into 9P.


                --
                ____________________________________________________________________

                We don't see things as they are, ravage@...
                we see them as we are. www.ssz.com
                jchoate@...
                Anais Nin www.open-forge.org

                --------------------------------------------------------------------

                On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Jamie Lawrence wrote:

                > On Fri, 01 Nov 2002, Jim Choate wrote:
                >
                >
                > Nei sche szche.
                >
                > > > The question is, how does one construct a censorship-free search engine.
                > >
                > > Plan 9
                > >
                > > http://plan9.bell-labs.com
                >
                > An OS is not a search engine.
                >
                > > Hangar 18
                > >
                > > http://open-forge.org
                >
                > A service might be a search engine.
                >
                > Give plan9 a rest, already. Everyone loves the OS they use.
                >
                > (Sorry to respond to Jim, but I'm grumpy this morning.
                > Something about coding until 7AM does that to me...)
                >
                > -j
                >
                >
                > --
                > Jamie Lawrence jal@...
                > "Naturally the common people don't want war . But after all,
                > it is the leaders of a country who determine policy, and it
                > is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether
                > it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship. All you have
                > to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the
                > pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to
                > danger. It works the same in any country."
                > -Hermann Goering
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