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Re: What are our dreams for 2007?

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  • Benoit
    The dream I have is for the discovery of the passage from personal dream to reality, upon the emergence of the ground where humanity s ocean of needs are met
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 13, 2006
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      The dream I have is for the discovery of the passage from personal dream
      to reality, upon the emergence of the ground where humanity's ocean of
      needs are met in the awakening to the organic experience of spiritual
      unity.

      Franz spoke of the "Spirit of Global Villages". That Is what we all
      mean. So from our personal dreaming, there is an order of deployment
      where is "written " the passage for us to discover. If you go back to
      my thoughts for the last 18 months, this is how I seek to write, each
      time I get involved in a thread. I view each thought as an element to
      be either woven or allied with other thoughts until they become a usable
      tissue, where a thread can apear and with a thread comes a direction for
      the weaving into the passage from dream to reality's fabric.

      Andrius speaks of: "...a great opportunity for us to be together and
      learn how "local conversations" might link with our "global
      conversations". Here, to view my dream I offer the word Flowcalization
      made of Focal-Local-Flowing.

      The Orchard of Thoughts produces tissues and materials by being rooted
      in the unfolding of everything. The passage I dream of, allows for the
      personal dreaming to aim for the ground where everything is, where
      reality guides the way from out of the loneliness of dreaming without
      any materialisation of the visions nor happening of the aspirations into
      the weaving of God's good, perfect and agreeable will. The communal
      connection allows for one to view everything, as needed so as to
      activate the community.

      The local community I belong to has sought to materialise the dream of
      humanity's diversity to live as one, sharing the same reality of space
      and governance for 400 years. Because of my personal circumstances and
      because of that 400 years context, I find myself in a physical
      situation where dreaming and reality are left to the passage of Canada
      into the maturing of a mature of a people of all people. That leaves us
      with the Quest for Home of the universal citizenship from personal to
      communal, from local to global, waiting and praying for the weaving of
      God from out of our dreams and into the reality that transcends the
      entity of terror-anti-terror, with the training to satisfy the inner
      life with spiritual living, away from the enslavement to the instincts
      of animal human rule...

      Here is an exerpt from an answer I gave to Richard Nelson during a long
      thread:
      To all the questions that you put before us, I say that with the right
      Pro-Motion (movement of uninterrupted YES) of the grass root,
      Ecoliving's function can be contracted out by popular demand of
      democracy itself, to spearhead the Recovery Road for humanity from
      self-destruction to self-control and community self-government, from the
      opportunity that lies at the heart of the Aboriginal crisis, beginning
      in Western Canada. In your first reply to me last year Rick, you
      mentioned having been in Alberta for some time and having no success
      with the powers that be. This is where I keep hoping that a model such
      as what I propose to embody would be irresistible so that the pendulum
      could return from the political right that you hit yourself against, to
      the center, where left and right can meet and work together. The current
      opportunity to tap into to spark the YES Pro-Motion is that, after
      having been Premier of Alberta for 15 years, Mr. Ralph Klein is going to
      lecture for three months at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for
      Scholars in Washington D.C. near the White House, starting very shortly.
      Why, during these 3 months of lecture of the former Alberta Premier in
      Washington, would there not be a connecting of the dots between Mr.
      Klein and Jeffrey Sachs and Chris Macrae and Bill Clinton and Al Gore to
      steer the fundings of the Recovery Road as I propose to embody? I for
      one, think that Minciu Sodas and all of its partners and affiliates are
      ready to respond and to assemble a team to ground the local-global
      emergency response to humanity's sustainability crisis. The ignition
      of the launch is in the resolve of the Aboriginal plight, directly
      involving the French and English educational-correctional populations in
      siding along with one another for the socio-cultural transforming
      journey of econo-political dynamics from Alberta to Saskatchewan and
      Manitoba. Once solidly rooted with our documentation in hand on the
      initial scale of measures, we move to scale up the Pro-Motion with the
      docu-dramatization of what we've accomplished with the help of
      CBC-BBC-PBS in accordance to the educational dream being pursued with Be
      the Change movement. Then the wave swings back to BC so as to bounce
      off the coast, sending the Pro-Motion to go North-South and from there,
      East to the rest of Canada while United States awakes to the reality
      offered by such a dream investment opportunity. By then, the drive
      will be sufficiently grounded to invite the rest of the Americas,
      drawing along all of Europe in the recovery's focus and innovative
      building, while at the same time that the spreading from Canada to the
      whole of the Americas lights up, the remaining States like Russia,
      Japan, China and India join in the cause to reach Africa and the
      Middle-East with the socio-cultural developmental support of
      Health-Education-Correction. The main problem is not in finding
      solutions but on how to apply them in such a renewing way that each
      application is a step forward into the deployment that leaves behind the
      old ways." The complete thread is at:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/globalvillages/message/1618
      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/globalvillages/message/1618> How
      does that all relate to Minciu Sodas? I pray that Minciu Sodas weaving
      becomes an integral renewing force in Canada's complete socio-cultural
      infrastructures' move to emerge as I described above from Alberta to
      Québec, from upon "The Land of Immanuel" by hosting the unity
      centres, where we cultivate the passage of "The Perpetual Celebration of
      Easter", offering to humanity the ground to bring in full view The
      Faculty of Living, radiating eternal life from the organic experience of
      spiritual unity, ready to host the complete trainig into the stability
      of the One Village, getting ready to spread the service of Global
      Villages to humanity diverse landscape by completing our national armed
      forces with the Canadian Heart Forces." My personal language
      describes that with the mission to build the Recovery Road from
      self-destruction to self-control and community self-government, by
      growing the opportunity to take part in the connectivity of the
      trans-generational youth of all ages.. " This is how I promote my dream
      with Taking It Global with a group and a project called The Ancient
      Voice of Humanity's Youth. On January 3rd, 07, I have an interview
      with the two front line people of the clinical psychology department at
      the University of Alberta. I hope that this opportunity may be the
      opening of the door where our family will find the support to build the
      first unity centre that gets rooted in the alliance of community mental
      health and restorative justice. When I came up with the word
      Flowcalization, I was trying hard to convince the EU Knowledgeboard
      community to help in finding that passage in a scalable way. To view
      the pratical context that I was addressing see: Flowcalization
      <http://www.ourculture.info/wiki.cgi?search=Flowcalization&title=off&wor\
      d=on&case=on&bl=on&mp=LovingGod> The word seems to adapt with the
      practical application for the passage we seek? This letter is a
      nutshell that I hope to be a seed of the dreaming for which I live to
      find the passage into reality... ...all blessing be with us all...
      Benoit Couture


      --- In cyfranogi@yahoogroups.com, <ms@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi! Greetings from Tel Aviv! Tomorrow I fly to Istanbul. I am
      exhausted, I
      > had a wonderful bike ride along the Sea of Galilee from Tiberias to
      the Mt.of
      > Beatitudes and back. And some fried fish for dinner, too!
      >
      > Lots of great activity! I'm especially happy that Jeff Buderer and
      Steve
      > Bosserman got to meet. That is fantastic!
      >
      > I ask us to think, what are our dreams for 2007? What would we like to
      work
      > on and achieve? How might we support each other?
      >
      > Jeff, Franz and others have started writing. John Rogers alerts us to
      the
      > World Cafe European Gathering (any info on costs?) in Dresden, Germany
      in
      > early May which I think would be a great opportunity for us to be
      together
      > and learn how "local conversations" might link with our "global
      > conversations".
      >
      > I'm thinking for myself that I am very happy with the great leadership
      shown
      > by so many people at our lab - and I am also happy with our long list
      of our
      > "deepest values in life (that include all our other values)" and our
      > "investigatory questions (that we don't know the answer to, but intend
      to
      > answer). In 2007, I want to help us work out "investigatory plans" for
      > wholeheartedly engaging our questions. I have a variety of techniques
      for
      > that but they all make good use of accumulating "personal accounts",
      our own
      > as well as those of others. So our work at MyFoodStory is fantastic
      because
      > the collections of personal stories are a great base for drawing
      conclusions
      > about people's real lives. This includes our interests in pattern
      languages,
      > global villages, the money mind, nonviolence and more. We'll need to
      think
      > fresh about what web interfaces will be most helpful, as Franz Nahrada
      has
      > written, and I'm excited to see his exchange with Thomas Kalka in our
      German
      > group! We also want to coordinate with Helmut Leitner and his ProWiki
      > developments. And I think that "helping people see and share personal
      > stories" may be a "use case" that makes video bridges especially
      meaningful,
      > as I saw they were in connecting a Chicago high school's students with
      An
      > Najah National University students.
      >
      > I'm also glad for all - Janet, John, Markus and others - who have
      alerted us
      > to business and funding opportunities.
      >
      > I'm very excited that we might think boldly, share openly so that we
      might
      > influence each other to multiply our possibilities.
      >
      > Please dream and write!
      >
      > Andrius
      >
      > Andrius Kulikauskas
      > Minciu Sodas
      > http://www.ms.lt
      > ms@...
      >




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John Rogers
      Greetings to all as the planet spins round again on this cosmic Magical Mystery Tour and we humans join it in figuring out the why, what and how of human
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 2, 2007
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        Greetings to all as the planet spins round again on this cosmic Magical Mystery Tour and we humans join it in figuring out the why, what and how of human existence...including such minor matters as What is the meaning of (our) lives? How do we learn to get along with and respect each other, celebrating our diversity and including each other in our plans, dreams and projects?


        My dreams for our work with Community Currencies in 2007.

        Establish a consensus from practitioners around the globe about best practice in community currencies.

        Make key contacts in the mainstream media and agencies who understand the potential of community currencies.

        Develop better communication tools for CCs in the form of games, videos etc.

        Integrate community currencies as a delivery mechanism for many other agendas such as participation, active citizenship, healthy living etc.


        Here is a good place to announce that I have decided to finish working as Coordinator with the Wales Institute for Community Currencies at the end of March.

        I will move to Germany from April to begin a new life as a freelance practitioner. I will be available from then to support organisations to think and organise and act as facilitator and trainer in the fields of community currencies, community development and accelerated learning. I also intend to devote more time to writing
        about these subjects.

        I will continue a close association with the Wales Institute for Community Currencies in a freelance capacity, helping it to move to its next stage of growth and returning to deliver training etc.

        If you wish to book me as a conference speaker, workshop leader, trainer, facilitator, consultant or adviser my diary is free from April!

        Best wishes to all on this list for all you dream, think and do!



        John Rogers
        Cydlynydd Prosiect
        Project Coordinator

        Sefydliad Arian Cymunedol Cymru
        Wales Institute for Community Currencies
        Ty Aneurin Bevan Aneurin Bevan House
        40 Stryd y Castell 40 Castle St.
        Tredegar Tredegar
        Blaenau Gwent Blaenau Gwent
        NP22 3DQ NP22 3DQ

        Ffon/Tel:
        01495 712925
        0781 5155127

        E-bost/E-mail: john.rogers@...

        Y Prosiect Partneriaid gan Prifsygol Cymru Casnewydd, Plant Y Cymoedd ac Time Banks UK, rhan-ariennir gan yr Cronfa Ddatblygu Ranbarthol Ewropeiaidd
        A partnership between University of Wales Newport, Valleys Kids and Time Banks UK part financed with European Regional Development Funds.

        ________________________________

        From: cyfranogi@yahoogroups.com on behalf of ms@...
        Sent: Tue 12/12/2006 21:54
        To: globalvillages@yahoogroups.com; cyfranogi@yahoogroups.com; holistichelping@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [cyfranogi] What are our dreams for 2007?



        Hi! Greetings from Tel Aviv! Tomorrow I fly to Istanbul. I am exhausted, I
        had a wonderful bike ride along the Sea of Galilee from Tiberias to the Mt.of
        Beatitudes and back. And some fried fish for dinner, too!

        Lots of great activity! I'm especially happy that Jeff Buderer and Steve
        Bosserman got to meet. That is fantastic!

        I ask us to think, what are our dreams for 2007? What would we like to work
        on and achieve? How might we support each other?

        Jeff, Franz and others have started writing. John Rogers alerts us to the
        World Cafe European Gathering (any info on costs?) in Dresden, Germany in
        early May which I think would be a great opportunity for us to be together
        and learn how "local conversations" might link with our "global
        conversations".

        I'm thinking for myself that I am very happy with the great leadership shown
        by so many people at our lab - and I am also happy with our long list of our
        "deepest values in life (that include all our other values)" and our
        "investigatory questions (that we don't know the answer to, but intend to
        answer). In 2007, I want to help us work out "investigatory plans" for
        wholeheartedly engaging our questions. I have a variety of techniques for
        that but they all make good use of accumulating "personal accounts", our own
        as well as those of others. So our work at MyFoodStory is fantastic because
        the collections of personal stories are a great base for drawing conclusions
        about people's real lives. This includes our interests in pattern languages,
        global villages, the money mind, nonviolence and more. We'll need to think
        fresh about what web interfaces will be most helpful, as Franz Nahrada has
        written, and I'm excited to see his exchange with Thomas Kalka in our German
        group! We also want to coordinate with Helmut Leitner and his ProWiki
        developments. And I think that "helping people see and share personal
        stories" may be a "use case" that makes video bridges especially meaningful,
        as I saw they were in connecting a Chicago high school's students with An
        Najah National University students.

        I'm also glad for all - Janet, John, Markus and others - who have alerted us
        to business and funding opportunities.

        I'm very excited that we might think boldly, share openly so that we might
        influence each other to multiply our possibilities.

        Please dream and write!

        Andrius

        Andrius Kulikauskas
        Minciu Sodas
        http://www.ms.lt
        ms@...


        Each letter sent to cyfranogi@yahoogroups.com
        enters the PUBLIC DOMAIN whenever it does not state otherwise. http://www.ethicalpublicdomain.org
        Please be kind to our authors!

        Have a look at our wiki where we are creating an online learning environment for community currency: http://www.findbetterways.info/wiki.cgi?FindBetterWays/CommunityCurrency


        To Post a message, send it to: cyfranogi@...
        To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: cyfranogi-unsubscribe@...
        Yahoo! Groups Links







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John Waters
        ... I believe that that might be premature (at the macroscopic end, anyway). If there are universally-applicable structures for CCs, we are not yet (as far as
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 2, 2007
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          John Rogers wrote:

          > My dreams for our work with Community Currencies in 2007.
          >
          > Establish a consensus from practitioners around the globe about
          > best practice in community currencies.

          I believe that that might be premature (at the macroscopic end,
          anyway).

          If there are universally-applicable structures for CCs, we are not
          yet (as far as I know) in a position to determine exactly what
          these are.

          What is most rational, flexible or widely-applicable may be quite
          different from what is most easily understood or most readily
          acceptable.

          On the one hand, some CC system-types may be unfairly dismissed as
          having "failed" if the (apparent) reasons are not carefully
          examined and analysed. For example, the failure of a particular CC
          system may be a consequence of oversimplification or of its having
          been introduced before the technology needed to support it had
          matured.

          On the other hand, certain system types may be adopted with undue
          enthusiasm because "it's what others are doing" - and then adapted,
          modified or extended (with varying degrees of success) when found
          not to do (or be) what was initially assumed by members.

          As John R has suggested, we need to consider MECHANISMS, POLITICS
          and PSYCHOLOGY. None of these are trivial matters,

          I believe the study of the "mechanisms" should focus on at least
          two areas:

          (a) Structures: What might be conceivable and what might actually
          be practicable? (One of Ross Ashby's cybernetic aphorisms might
          apply well here: "The Cyberneticist observes what might have
          happened but did not." [See http://www.cybsoc.org/ross.htm%5d).

          I believe the tools for studying these must come mainly from
          mathematics, systems theory and economics.

          (b) Technology: What's possible now depends on what's available now.
          What might be possible soon depends on what's possibly now: the
          constraints are hereditary rather than systemic (in stark
          contrast to (a)).

          On the other hand, the "politics" and the "psychology" overlap. (In
          some ways, the "politics" is where the "psychology" meets the
          systemic constraints of history.) Wherever there's "psychology"
          there are people, and they're the real problem: constrained by
          culture, education, personal history, experience and aspirations.
          Whatever "universals" constrain the acceptance of CCs most strongly
          in one culture may not be of such significance in another.

          "Best practice" may not translate across either space (geography)
          or time, and whether (or to whatever extent) it does may be beyond
          our capacity to determine for quite some time.

          The study, design, implementation and assessment of CCs covers a
          vast range of tools, techniques and possibilities. How these have
          been combined in the past remains to be fully and consistently
          catalogued, and how they might (or should be) be combined in the
          future may remain an open question for quite some time. As I see
          it, the determination of best practice should probably be focussed
          (for the time being) at the microscopic end rather than the
          macroscopic.

          > Make key contacts in the mainstream media and agencies who
          > understand the potential of community currencies.

          Essential as this is, I believe there are some issues that need to
          be resolved before too much exposure is sought:

          - Fragmentation and division: Hours, LETS*, Time Dollars, Scrip,
          etc.: No single system meets all needs: overstretching of any is
          setting it up to fail. Resources and focus need to be applied to
          an integrated collection of currency systems (and not just CCs),
          and those who focus attention on a particular type of system
          should be discouraged from competing (rather than co-operating)
          with those whose attention is focussed on other CC types.

          - Disjunction: Different currency systems are needed to meet
          different needs: exchange; store-of-value; measurement; leakage
          reduction; equalization; systemic constraint; community project
          development; financial inclusion; etc. The integration of (and
          mutual reinforcement between) systems has barely been addressed
          holistically.

          I'd suggest establishing an inchoate map of both what we already
          know and what we still need to explore before trying to draw in
          too much attention from the media, politicians or other agencies.
          Although needed as powerful future allies, unless provided with a
          concise map outlining a path to effective integration there is a
          danger that the existing reference/research material might be
          interpreted as suggesting inevitability in the current situation
          (fragmentation, division, competition) rather than possibilities
          of integration and appropriate application.

          > Develop better communication tools for CCs in the form of games,
          > videos etc.

          Yes, with as much flexibility and transferability as possible. It
          would be particularly useful if these could be gathered into a
          growing library of (preferably adaptable) material for shared
          benefit.

          I would suggest using the GNU Free Documentation License wherever
          possible to protect it for future users. "The license was designed
          for manuals, textbooks, other reference and instructional materials,
          and documentation which often accompanies GPL software. However, it
          can be used for any text-based work, regardless of subject matter."
          (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Free_Documentation_License).
          Comparable licences exist for other media.

          > Integrate community currencies as a delivery mechanism for many
          > other agendas such as participation, active citizenship, healthy
          > living etc.

          ... which takes us back to integration and appropriate application.

          ;-)

          Bye

          John :)


          -----------------------------------------------------------
          John :) Waters | john.waters@... | 0845 458 0626
          -----------------------------------------------------------
        • John Waters
          ... Hmmm ... ambitious. ... What is the meaning of meaning when in reference to our lives? ... I m far from convinced that any of these will ever be
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 2, 2007
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            John Rogers wrote:

            > Greetings to all as the planet spins round again on this cosmic
            > Magical Mystery Tour and we humans join it in figuring out the
            > why, what and how of human existence

            Hmmm ... ambitious.

            > ...including such minor matters as What is the meaning of (our)
            > lives?

            What is the meaning of "meaning" when in reference to our lives?

            > How do we learn to get along with and respect each other,
            > celebrating our diversity and including each other in our plans,
            > dreams and projects?

            I'm far from convinced that any of these will ever be possible.
            Perhaps it would be more realistic to aim for a situation in which
            we minimize the constraints we place on others' ability to sort ot
            their own (localized) problems.

            Even within the English language words such as "respect",
            "celebration" and "inclusion" can be more than a little ambiguous.
            Crossing the boundaries of language compounds the problem. And since
            languages evolve subtly, time compounds the compounded ambiguity.

            Unambiguously defined common ground (ideally with a focus on
            compassion towards all living things - and most particularly those
            which clearly have a capacity for suffering) may be the most we can
            hope for. Mutual comprehension may be beyond our grasp, and any
            attempt to achieve it may be a dangerously complexity-amplifying
            digression.

            G'night

            John :)

            -----------------------------------------------------------
            John :) Waters | john.waters@... | 0845 458 0626
            -----------------------------------------------------------
          • John Rogers
            Thanks John for your thoughtful response. You are right about some of the real world problems of establishing any kind of consensus about best practice
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 3, 2007
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              Thanks John for your thoughtful response.

              You are right about some of the 'real world' problems of establishing any kind of 'consensus' about 'best practice' in the field of CCs!

              This is one reason our work led us to look at the *design process* for CCs. Working out the key factors in the design of a CC and the potential results of each design choice may give us clues to design some kind of meta-tool that anyone running, planning or designing a CC can use to improve practice. We plan to do more work on this year.

              I am glad you have drawn attention again to the distinction between Mechanisms, Psychology and Politics in CCs.
              I would like to clarify these three domains by naming them instead:
              System Design
              Psychology of Participation
              Politics of Organising.

              System Design would include all factors of operation of a CC including the design process itself, administration, accounting and technical issues.

              Psychology of Participation would include the whole area of beliefs, values, habits and attitudes driving the behaviours which people bring to the practice of community currency. It would suggest areas for training and educational tools such as games, instructional videos etc.

              Politics of Organising would include issues such as structures for governance in a CC, management issues, lobbying for integration of CCs into other public processes eg local, regional and central government and other agencies.



              Awareness of these different levels is no magic wand and it might just remind us of the different levels at which we need to be personally aware so that we can be more effective in our practice.



              John Rogers
              Cydlynydd Prosiect
              Project Coordinator

              Sefydliad Arian Cymunedol Cymru
              Wales Institute for Community Currencies
              Ty Aneurin Bevan Aneurin Bevan House
              40 Stryd y Castell 40 Castle St.
              Tredegar Tredegar
              Blaenau Gwent Blaenau Gwent
              NP22 3DQ NP22 3DQ

              Ffon/Tel:
              01495 712925
              0781 5155127

              E-bost/E-mail: john.rogers@...

              Y Prosiect Partneriaid gan Prifsygol Cymru Casnewydd, Plant Y Cymoedd ac Time Banks UK, rhan-ariennir gan yr Cronfa Ddatblygu Ranbarthol Ewropeiaidd
              A partnership between University of Wales Newport, Valleys Kids and Time Banks UK part financed with European Regional Development Funds.

              ________________________________

              From: cyfranogi@yahoogroups.com on behalf of John Waters
              Sent: Wed 03/01/2007 00:40
              To: cyfranogi@yahoogroups.com
              Cc: mary@...
              Subject: [cyfranogi] Integrated currency systems [What are our dreams for 2007?]



              John Rogers wrote:

              > My dreams for our work with Community Currencies in 2007.
              >
              > Establish a consensus from practitioners around the globe about
              > best practice in community currencies.

              I believe that that might be premature (at the macroscopic end,
              anyway).

              If there are universally-applicable structures for CCs, we are not
              yet (as far as I know) in a position to determine exactly what
              these are.

              What is most rational, flexible or widely-applicable may be quite
              different from what is most easily understood or most readily
              acceptable.

              On the one hand, some CC system-types may be unfairly dismissed as
              having "failed" if the (apparent) reasons are not carefully
              examined and analysed. For example, the failure of a particular CC
              system may be a consequence of oversimplification or of its having
              been introduced before the technology needed to support it had
              matured.

              On the other hand, certain system types may be adopted with undue
              enthusiasm because "it's what others are doing" - and then adapted,
              modified or extended (with varying degrees of success) when found
              not to do (or be) what was initially assumed by members.

              As John R has suggested, we need to consider MECHANISMS, POLITICS
              and PSYCHOLOGY. None of these are trivial matters,

              I believe the study of the "mechanisms" should focus on at least
              two areas:

              (a) Structures: What might be conceivable and what might actually
              be practicable? (One of Ross Ashby's cybernetic aphorisms might
              apply well here: "The Cyberneticist observes what might have
              happened but did not." [See http://www.cybsoc.org/ross.htm <http://www.cybsoc.org/ross.htm> ]).

              I believe the tools for studying these must come mainly from
              mathematics, systems theory and economics.

              (b) Technology: What's possible now depends on what's available now.
              What might be possible soon depends on what's possibly now: the
              constraints are hereditary rather than systemic (in stark
              contrast to (a)).

              On the other hand, the "politics" and the "psychology" overlap. (In
              some ways, the "politics" is where the "psychology" meets the
              systemic constraints of history.) Wherever there's "psychology"
              there are people, and they're the real problem: constrained by
              culture, education, personal history, experience and aspirations.
              Whatever "universals" constrain the acceptance of CCs most strongly
              in one culture may not be of such significance in another.

              "Best practice" may not translate across either space (geography)
              or time, and whether (or to whatever extent) it does may be beyond
              our capacity to determine for quite some time.

              The study, design, implementation and assessment of CCs covers a
              vast range of tools, techniques and possibilities. How these have
              been combined in the past remains to be fully and consistently
              catalogued, and how they might (or should be) be combined in the
              future may remain an open question for quite some time. As I see
              it, the determination of best practice should probably be focussed
              (for the time being) at the microscopic end rather than the
              macroscopic.

              > Make key contacts in the mainstream media and agencies who
              > understand the potential of community currencies.

              Essential as this is, I believe there are some issues that need to
              be resolved before too much exposure is sought:

              - Fragmentation and division: Hours, LETS*, Time Dollars, Scrip,
              etc.: No single system meets all needs: overstretching of any is
              setting it up to fail. Resources and focus need to be applied to
              an integrated collection of currency systems (and not just CCs),
              and those who focus attention on a particular type of system
              should be discouraged from competing (rather than co-operating)
              with those whose attention is focussed on other CC types.

              - Disjunction: Different currency systems are needed to meet
              different needs: exchange; store-of-value; measurement; leakage
              reduction; equalization; systemic constraint; community project
              development; financial inclusion; etc. The integration of (and
              mutual reinforcement between) systems has barely been addressed
              holistically.

              I'd suggest establishing an inchoate map of both what we already
              know and what we still need to explore before trying to draw in
              too much attention from the media, politicians or other agencies.
              Although needed as powerful future allies, unless provided with a
              concise map outlining a path to effective integration there is a
              danger that the existing reference/research material might be
              interpreted as suggesting inevitability in the current situation
              (fragmentation, division, competition) rather than possibilities
              of integration and appropriate application.

              > Develop better communication tools for CCs in the form of games,
              > videos etc.

              Yes, with as much flexibility and transferability as possible. It
              would be particularly useful if these could be gathered into a
              growing library of (preferably adaptable) material for shared
              benefit.

              I would suggest using the GNU Free Documentation License wherever
              possible to protect it for future users. "The license was designed
              for manuals, textbooks, other reference and instructional materials,
              and documentation which often accompanies GPL software. However, it
              can be used for any text-based work, regardless of subject matter."
              (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Free_Documentation_License <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Free_Documentation_License> ).
              Comparable licences exist for other media.

              > Integrate community currencies as a delivery mechanism for many
              > other agendas such as participation, active citizenship, healthy
              > living etc.

              ... which takes us back to integration and appropriate application.

              ;-)

              Bye

              John :)

              ----------------------------------------------------------
              John :) Waters | john.waters@... <mailto:john.waters%40phonecoop.coop> | 0845 458 0626
              ----------------------------------------------------------






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Benoit Couture
              ... be practicable?
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 3, 2007
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                John Waters wrote:

                >What might be conceivable and what might actually
                be practicable?<...

                This what I understand as "cyber space knocking on reality's door." Ultimately, for centuries the market place has called that "innovation".

                ...> the "politics" and the "psychology" overlap. (In
                some ways, the "politics" is where the "psychology" meets the
                systemic constraints of history.) Wherever there's "psychology"
                there are people, and they're the real problem: constrained by
                culture, education, personal history, experience and aspirations.<...

                This is a good description in favor of the need to focus on the Faculty of Living, where all human experience, knowledge, sciences and faculties find the ground to assemble within reality's limits.

                ...>As I see it, the determination of best practice should probably be focussed
                (for the time being) at the microscopic end rather than the
                macroscopic.<...

                If we do accept to focus on the microscopic within much of the current conditions of the civilized world, we will see emerge the Personal Sector to stabilize the release from the command and control structures that remain in charge of the macroscopic end of everything. Such a release comes from the clarity of transparency being applied without compromise to the zone of decision making dominated by the Official Secrecy of the public sector and the Codes of Silence from the private sector.

                ...>I'd suggest establishing an inchoate map of both what we already
                know and what we still need to explore before trying to draw in
                too much attention from the media, politicians or other agencies.
                Although needed as powerful future allies, unless provided with a
                concise map outlining a path to effective integration there is a
                danger that the existing reference/research material might be
                interpreted as suggesting inevitability in the current situation
                (fragmentation, division, competition) rather than possibilities
                of integration and appropriate application.<...

                Isn't that what the history of "money" and of the "market place" and democracy are all about? Isn't that what the market place keeps on claiming to be proceeding with, in the name of globalization"
                So what we are actually looking for, is it not the reconciliation model of all existing currencies? Here again to the rescue, comes the Faculty of Living!

                John R.:
                > Integrate community currencies as a delivery mechanism for many
                > other agendas such as participation, active citizenship, healthy
                > living etc.

                John W:
                >... which takes us back to integration and appropriate application.

                I am answering this with a excerpt from a post I made in a recent conversation, here at Minciu Sodas:

                "Andrius speaks of: "...a great opportunity for us to be together and learn how "local conversations" might link with our "global conversations" . Here, to view my dream from local to global, I offer the word Flowcalization made of Focal - Local - Flowing.

                The Orchard of Thoughts (Minciu Sodas) produces tissues and materials by being rooted in the unfolding of everything. The passage I dream of, allows for the personal dreaming to aim for the ground where everything is, where reality guides the way from out of the loneliness of dreaming without any materialization of the visions nor happening of the aspirations into the weaving of God's good, perfect and agreeable will. The communal connection allows for one to view everything, as needed so as to activate the community.

                The local community I belong to has sought to materialize the dream of humanity's diversity to live as one, sharing the same reality of space and governance for 400 years. Because of my personal circumstances and because of that 400 years context, I find myself in a physical situation where dreaming and reality are left to the passage of Canada into the maturing of a mature of a people of all people. That leaves us with the Quest for Home of the universal citizenship from personal to communal, from local to global, waiting and praying for the weaving of God from out of our dreams and into the reality that transcends the entity of terror -anti - terror, with the training to satisfy the inner life with spiritual living, away from the enslavement to the instincts of animal human rule..."
                The rest of this letter is at:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/holistichelping/message/506

                Humanity needs to witness a promotional movement of historical proportion, causing a hushing that will invite us all to get on with the sight and focus upon a mature people of all people. Such people know how to tap in the release of the Spirit needed for the connectivity of currency to become a uniting force of the heart and of the mind and how to activate currency to develop communities from the soul and body serenity.
                Such people is who Minciu Sodas represents for me, and such a promotion as what I just described, is what I keep on moving with in my life.
                That is why I still maneuver my work, in the hope to release such a pilot light by calling on her Majesty, queen Elisabeth II, the Pope and Mr. George Bush Jr. to accept the witness of Canada's mosaic as the ground to assemble the microscopic version of the Faculty of Living, as they lead on with the dismantle of command and control into community currency, ready to Flowcalise good health and hapiness!

                Thank you John and John,
                Benoit Couture



                John Waters <john.waters@...> wrote:
                John Rogers wrote:

                > My dreams for our work with Community Currencies in 2007.
                >
                > Establish a consensus from practitioners around the globe about
                > best practice in community currencies.

                I believe that that might be premature (at the macroscopic end,
                anyway).

                If there are universally-applicable structures for CCs, we are not
                yet (as far as I know) in a position to determine exactly what
                these are.

                What is most rational, flexible or widely-applicable may be quite
                different from what is most easily understood or most readily
                acceptable.

                On the one hand, some CC system-types may be unfairly dismissed as
                having "failed" if the (apparent) reasons are not carefully
                examined and analysed. For example, the failure of a particular CC
                system may be a consequence of oversimplification or of its having
                been introduced before the technology needed to support it had
                matured.

                On the other hand, certain system types may be adopted with undue
                enthusiasm because "it's what others are doing" - and then adapted,
                modified or extended (with varying degrees of success) when found
                not to do (or be) what was initially assumed by members.

                As John R has suggested, we need to consider MECHANISMS, POLITICS
                and PSYCHOLOGY. None of these are trivial matters,

                I believe the study of the "mechanisms" should focus on at least
                two areas:

                (a) Structures: What might be conceivable and what might actually
                be practicable? (One of Ross Ashby's cybernetic aphorisms might
                apply well here: "The Cyberneticist observes what might have
                happened but did not." [See http://www.cybsoc.org/ross.htm%5d).

                I believe the tools for studying these must come mainly from
                mathematics, systems theory and economics.

                (b) Technology: What's possible now depends on what's available now.
                What might be possible soon depends on what's possibly now: the
                constraints are hereditary rather than systemic (in stark
                contrast to (a)).

                On the other hand, the "politics" and the "psychology" overlap. (In
                some ways, the "politics" is where the "psychology" meets the
                systemic constraints of history.) Wherever there's "psychology"
                there are people, and they're the real problem: constrained by
                culture, education, personal history, experience and aspirations.
                Whatever "universals" constrain the acceptance of CCs most strongly
                in one culture may not be of such significance in another.

                "Best practice" may not translate across either space (geography)
                or time, and whether (or to whatever extent) it does may be beyond
                our capacity to determine for quite some time.

                The study, design, implementation and assessment of CCs covers a
                vast range of tools, techniques and possibilities. How these have
                been combined in the past remains to be fully and consistently
                catalogued, and how they might (or should be) be combined in the
                future may remain an open question for quite some time. As I see
                it, the determination of best practice should probably be focussed
                (for the time being) at the microscopic end rather than the
                macroscopic.

                > Make key contacts in the mainstream media and agencies who
                > understand the potential of community currencies.

                Essential as this is, I believe there are some issues that need to
                be resolved before too much exposure is sought:

                - Fragmentation and division: Hours, LETS*, Time Dollars, Scrip,
                etc.: No single system meets all needs: overstretching of any is
                setting it up to fail. Resources and focus need to be applied to
                an integrated collection of currency systems (and not just CCs),
                and those who focus attention on a particular type of system
                should be discouraged from competing (rather than co-operating)
                with those whose attention is focussed on other CC types.

                - Disjunction: Different currency systems are needed to meet
                different needs: exchange; store-of-value; measurement; leakage
                reduction; equalization; systemic constraint; community project
                development; financial inclusion; etc. The integration of (and
                mutual reinforcement between) systems has barely been addressed
                holistically.

                I'd suggest establishing an inchoate map of both what we already
                know and what we still need to explore before trying to draw in
                too much attention from the media, politicians or other agencies.
                Although needed as powerful future allies, unless provided with a
                concise map outlining a path to effective integration there is a
                danger that the existing reference/research material might be
                interpreted as suggesting inevitability in the current situation
                (fragmentation, division, competition) rather than possibilities
                of integration and appropriate application.

                > Develop better communication tools for CCs in the form of games,
                > videos etc.

                Yes, with as much flexibility and transferability as possible. It
                would be particularly useful if these could be gathered into a
                growing library of (preferably adaptable) material for shared
                benefit.

                I would suggest using the GNU Free Documentation License wherever
                possible to protect it for future users. "The license was designed
                for manuals, textbooks, other reference and instructional materials,
                and documentation which often accompanies GPL software. However, it
                can be used for any text-based work, regardless of subject matter."
                (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Free_Documentation_License).
                Comparable licences exist for other media.

                > Integrate community currencies as a delivery mechanism for many
                > other agendas such as participation, active citizenship, healthy
                > living etc.

                ... which takes us back to integration and appropriate application.

                ;-)

                Bye

                John :)

                ----------------------------------------------------------
                John :) Waters | john.waters@... | 0845 458 0626
                ----------------------------------------------------------






                ---------------------------------
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              • Benoit Couture
                ... One of the exercise I promote to effectively remove oneself from the ambiguity of the words prayer and religion is called : Healing the Meaning . It is a
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 3, 2007
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                  John Waters wrote:

                  >What is the meaning of "meaning" when in reference to our lives?<

                  One of the exercise I promote to effectively remove oneself from the ambiguity of the words prayer and religion is called :"Healing the Meaning". It is a permanent focus of humility that grows into the Quietening Silence of Patient Wisdom, where the Faculty of Living feeds the Perpetual River of personal and communal reconciliation; what the Aboriginal People call the Right Path of the Circle of Life and what Christians need to discover as the Perpetual Celebration of Easter upon the Land of Immanuel! That discovery I call Spiritual Hygiene 101 and it is the simple practice of holiness within oneself and in relation amongst all who share in the eternal gift of Life.
                  Of course, those who will not, simply will not, but nothing stands in the way of those who do. Meaninglessness must be a big part of hell. That is why Healing the meaning is a good Spiritual Hygiene practice to adopt to prevent such hell.
                  The beauty of the practice is that soon, meaning takes on a whole new meaning. Life and meaning become inseparable and as the meaning heals, I heal and as I heal, I become an agent in the victory over the living death, which is accomplished by the resurrection and given to us by faith!
                  From His exalted position, the Lord is calling all of humanity to receive eternal life and to that end, He is calling us to let all that we are, all that we do and all that we say to be immersed in His Presence.
                  To worship Him in truth, we must know Him in our spirit. As our union with Him grows, we become better acquainted with those vastly unknown territories of our mind, heart, soul and strength.
                  At that point of maturity, faculties we never knew to possess begin to light up. Soon, our whole being is consumed in loving Him and humanity from all the access we have to our heart, mind, soul and strength and we each blossom by channeling His love to all humans as our very own self. YAHWEH’s calling is to satisfy His desire to bond and to fellowship with His own. WELCOME TO GLORY!!!…

                  Connectivity of healing the meaning brings on the sound of vision.

                  Vision comes to those who exercise themselves to see what they hear, as they listen, who learn to see what is said and who enter in the experience of simple perceptual connection with the wide open personal completion to the moment's happening. As one develops the maturity of full participation with the moment, so does the perceptual envisioning dexterity. From the normalization of envisioning into one's perceptual connection getting firmly established in the daily living, then comes the invisioning. The invisioning is the imagination's inner screen lighting up in context of where the envisioning grows. To envision is to become aware from soaking in the atmosphere. To invision is the focus coming in contact with the natural deployment grown from the whole envisioning atmosphere I soak in daily. The essence of vision is from the personal relatedness development in its whole simplicity of perceptual connection of the moment. The sign of a vision is confirmed when it gets
                  communicated in the context that it addresses and that the focusing message lights up a healthy stimulation of the imagination screen and creativity from each listener's own personal perceptual relatedness. It is also recognized from the pure joy of effortlessly knowing beyond any possible argument.

                  ...all blessings be with us all...
                  Benoit Couture

                  John Waters <john.waters@...> wrote:
                  John Rogers wrote:

                  > Greetings to all as the planet spins round again on this cosmic
                  > Magical Mystery Tour and we humans join it in figuring out the
                  > why, what and how of human existence

                  Hmmm ... ambitious.

                  > ...including such minor matters as What is the meaning of (our)
                  > lives?

                  What is the meaning of "meaning" when in reference to our lives?

                  > How do we learn to get along with and respect each other,
                  > celebrating our diversity and including each other in our plans,
                  > dreams and projects?

                  I'm far from convinced that any of these will ever be possible.
                  Perhaps it would be more realistic to aim for a situation in which
                  we minimize the constraints we place on others' ability to sort ot
                  their own (localized) problems.

                  Even within the English language words such as "respect",
                  "celebration" and "inclusion" can be more than a little ambiguous.
                  Crossing the boundaries of language compounds the problem. And since
                  languages evolve subtly, time compounds the compounded ambiguity.

                  Unambiguously defined common ground (ideally with a focus on
                  compassion towards all living things - and most particularly those
                  which clearly have a capacity for suffering) may be the most we can
                  hope for. Mutual comprehension may be beyond our grasp, and any
                  attempt to achieve it may be a dangerously complexity-amplifying
                  digression.

                  G'night

                  John :)

                  ----------------------------------------------------------
                  John :) Waters | john.waters@... | 0845 458 0626
                  ----------------------------------------------------------






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                • John Waters
                  ... Good. As you know, I believe this is very important and I would like to assist with that if we can establish a suitable collaboration mechanism. I believe
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 3, 2007
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                    John Rogers wrote:

                    > Thanks John for your thoughtful response.
                    >
                    > You are right about some of the 'real world' problems of establishing
                    > any kind of 'consensus' about 'best practice' in the field of CCs!
                    >
                    > This is one reason our work led us to look at the *design process* for
                    > CCs. Working out the key factors in the design of a CC and the potential
                    > results of each design choice may give us clues to design some kind of
                    > meta-tool that anyone running, planning or designing a CC can use to
                    > improve practice. We plan to do more work on this year.

                    Good. As you know, I believe this is very important and I would like to
                    assist with that if we can establish a suitable collaboration mechanism.

                    I believe the currency design tool needs to open-ended and flexible, and
                    what I wrote on 26/01/06 (Re: [cyfranogi] Designing the best currencies)
                    still applies.

                    > I am glad you have drawn attention again to the distinction between
                    > Mechanisms, Psychology and Politics in CCs.
                    > I would like to clarify these three domains by naming them instead:
                    > System Design
                    > Psychology of Participation
                    > Politics of Organising.
                    >
                    > System Design would include all factors of operation of a CC including
                    > the design process itself, administration, accounting and technical
                    > issues.

                    To quote myself: "It doesn't matter what it's made of, only what it does."

                    For that reason I would suggest distinguishing technical issues (details
                    of implementation) from structural and systemic issues (from which, I
                    believe, the psychology and politics cannot be cleanly separated).

                    > Psychology of Participation would include the whole area of beliefs,
                    > values, habits and attitudes driving the behaviours which people bring
                    > to the practice of community currency.

                    But aren't these all fundamental systemic constraints, not least upon the
                    design process referred to above?

                    > It would suggest areas for
                    > training and educational tools such as games, instructional videos etc.

                    I agree with you about that. Perhaps the latter point can be considered a
                    key area of focus in itself, but I'm far from convince that the former
                    doesn't belong largely (though certainly not entirely) with "System
                    Design".

                    > Politics of Organising would include issues such as structures for
                    > governance in a CC, management issues, lobbying for integration of CCs
                    > into other public processes eg local, regional and central government
                    > and other agencies.

                    Again, this looks to me like two or more major topics under one umbrella.
                    Legal structures (for example) are systemic constraints on the design
                    process. Established political structures are stodgy constraints on just
                    about everything.

                    A realistic diagram of immediate effects might not be very tidy. ;-)

                    > Awareness of these different levels is no magic wand and it might just
                    > remind us of the different levels at which we need to be personally
                    > aware so that we can be more effective in our practice.

                    :-)

                    John :)
                  • John Rogers
                    John I am a simple soul :-) who likes to tell stories. So I try to keep the CC story as simple as possible (KISS Principle, Occam s Razor, Einstein s keep
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 3, 2007
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                      John

                      I am a simple soul :-) who likes to tell stories.

                      So I try to keep the CC 'story' as simple as possible (KISS Principle, Occam's Razor, Einstein's "keep it as simple as possible and no simpler" etc.) That is why I preach three overarching categories to comprise the underlying complexity composed of people, structures etc. Yes, there will be all kinds of overlaps, similarities and even contradictions. Yes, there may be elements of System Design within Psychology of Participation and Politics of Organising and vice versa. My main concern is for activists and organisers to 'get it' that it is not just about administration, currency design, my pet model or whatever but that the people factors (psychology and politics) must be taken into account or we will continue to set ourselves up to fail!

                      So think of the three overlapping circles as a training tool to raise awareness and improve practice rather than the last word of analysis about CCs!

                      In the time banking movement in the UK we now have a Task and Finish Group looking at five factors for sustainability in time banking specifically (and equally applicable to other forms of community currency):
                      Sustainable development process for the time bank
                      Sustainable participants
                      Sustainable organisers
                      Sustainable structures and governance
                      Sustainable funding.

                      I cling to the belief that we can improve practice if we simplify our analysis and give people better tools to work with.




                      John Rogers
                      Cydlynydd Prosiect
                      Project Coordinator

                      Sefydliad Arian Cymunedol Cymru
                      Wales Institute for Community Currencies
                      Ty Aneurin Bevan Aneurin Bevan House
                      40 Stryd y Castell 40 Castle St.
                      Tredegar Tredegar
                      Blaenau Gwent Blaenau Gwent
                      NP22 3DQ NP22 3DQ

                      Ffon/Tel:
                      01495 712925
                      0781 5155127

                      E-bost/E-mail: john.rogers@...

                      Y Prosiect Partneriaid gan Prifsygol Cymru Casnewydd, Plant Y Cymoedd ac Time Banks UK, rhan-ariennir gan yr Cronfa Ddatblygu Ranbarthol Ewropeiaidd
                      A partnership between University of Wales Newport, Valleys Kids and Time Banks UK part financed with European Regional Development Funds.

                      ________________________________

                      From: cyfranogi@yahoogroups.com on behalf of John Waters
                      Sent: Wed 03/01/2007 16:28
                      To: cyfranogi@yahoogroups.com
                      Cc: mary@...
                      Subject: Re: [cyfranogi] Integrated currency systems [What are our dreams for 2007?]



                      John Rogers wrote:

                      > Thanks John for your thoughtful response.
                      >
                      > You are right about some of the 'real world' problems of establishing
                      > any kind of 'consensus' about 'best practice' in the field of CCs!
                      >
                      > This is one reason our work led us to look at the *design process* for
                      > CCs. Working out the key factors in the design of a CC and the potential
                      > results of each design choice may give us clues to design some kind of
                      > meta-tool that anyone running, planning or designing a CC can use to
                      > improve practice. We plan to do more work on this year.

                      Good. As you know, I believe this is very important and I would like to
                      assist with that if we can establish a suitable collaboration mechanism.

                      I believe the currency design tool needs to open-ended and flexible, and
                      what I wrote on 26/01/06 (Re: [cyfranogi] Designing the best currencies)
                      still applies.

                      > I am glad you have drawn attention again to the distinction between
                      > Mechanisms, Psychology and Politics in CCs.
                      > I would like to clarify these three domains by naming them instead:
                      > System Design
                      > Psychology of Participation
                      > Politics of Organising.
                      >
                      > System Design would include all factors of operation of a CC including
                      > the design process itself, administration, accounting and technical
                      > issues.

                      To quote myself: "It doesn't matter what it's made of, only what it does."

                      For that reason I would suggest distinguishing technical issues (details
                      of implementation) from structural and systemic issues (from which, I
                      believe, the psychology and politics cannot be cleanly separated).

                      > Psychology of Participation would include the whole area of beliefs,
                      > values, habits and attitudes driving the behaviours which people bring
                      > to the practice of community currency.

                      But aren't these all fundamental systemic constraints, not least upon the
                      design process referred to above?

                      > It would suggest areas for
                      > training and educational tools such as games, instructional videos etc.

                      I agree with you about that. Perhaps the latter point can be considered a
                      key area of focus in itself, but I'm far from convince that the former
                      doesn't belong largely (though certainly not entirely) with "System
                      Design".

                      > Politics of Organising would include issues such as structures for
                      > governance in a CC, management issues, lobbying for integration of CCs
                      > into other public processes eg local, regional and central government
                      > and other agencies.

                      Again, this looks to me like two or more major topics under one umbrella.
                      Legal structures (for example) are systemic constraints on the design
                      process. Established political structures are stodgy constraints on just
                      about everything.

                      A realistic diagram of immediate effects might not be very tidy. ;-)

                      > Awareness of these different levels is no magic wand and it might just
                      > remind us of the different levels at which we need to be personally
                      > aware so that we can be more effective in our practice.

                      :-)

                      John :)






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • iou100@aol.com
                      John, Agreed in principle, but do you speak for TBWales or TBUK ? The question arises in view of Doing it differently in Wales , where reciprocity appears
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jan 4, 2007
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                        John,

                        Agreed in principle, but do you speak for TBWales or TBUK ?

                        The question arises in view of "Doing it differently in Wales',
                        where 'reciprocity' appears to be only a possible (hoped-for)
                        product -- as distinct from 'volunteering for reward' cf BBC
                        Timebank which promotes 'volunteering per se' (NO reward
                        other than satisfaction).

                        Do you have a recipe for 'INTEGRATING' TBUK, Cyfranogi,
                        and LLKU. The two former dependent on generous external
                        funding; the latter self-funded -- thus ultimately most easily
                        sustainable. Are TBUK and Cyfranogi willing to use currently
                        available funds to enable LLUK to integrate on an equal footing ?

                        Edgar was recommending 'collaboration' (Dec 2000 e-mail)
                        six years ago. Richard Rockerfeller even came all the way
                        from USA to Glastonbury to encourage AVALON TB-LETS.
                        The outcome ???

                        So when does 'talking' translate into 'walking' ? (-:

                        May 2007 celebrate an answer

                        jane.


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • John Rogers
                        Dear Jane/David (whoever you really are I don t know and it doesn t matter but you seem to have a slippery online identity...) I believe in talking, working
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jan 4, 2007
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                          Dear Jane/David (whoever you really are I don't know and it doesn't matter but you seem to have a slippery online identity...)
                          I believe in talking, working and acting as openly and honestly as it is possible to do.

                          Let's name some facts.

                          I speak for John Rogers and sometimes I also articulate a consensus view of the four development staff of the Wales Institute for Community Currencies who have worked closely as a team over the last four years to develop a unique working methodology in the world of community currencies. That is worth every penny of European funding because it is radically moving practice forward so that CCs can make a difference to real people in real communities. To date we have supported 25 communities in South Wales to learn how to set up and run time banks that are changing the way young people see themselves and their communities, rewarding adult learners for their participation and creating active community networks where there was despair and alienation.

                          One of the things we need to nail here is the concept of volunteering. There are two traditions.
                          First, the Lady Bountiful tradition of 'doing good works' which still continues to do great good and is also alienating to others.
                          Second, the tradition of mutuality and reciprocity that created the cooperatives, mutual societies, welfare halls, chapels, schools and hospitals of the 19th and early 20th centuries.
                          Both traditions are valid and they are different.

                          With our approach to time banking we are reinventing mutuality for the 21st century.

                          The second thing we need to nail is 'self-funding' and 'sustainability'. I have been involved in a LETS since 1993 (one of the first in Wales) which struggles along with self-funding from membership fees. In recent years it has employed a development worker with public funding. It is fine as far as it goes but it doesn't go far.
                          We are all looking for a 'sustainable' model for CCs.

                          LETSLink UK was funded by the Lottery in the late 90s and did good work while it was around. What it does now I cannot say.

                          The staff and directors of Time Banks UK will have to speak for that organisation. I am no longer a director.



                          Jane, please share with us the 'walking' you are doing so that we can all enter into a respectful dialogue.

                          The bottom line is to move practice forward away from ideology and forge tools and approaches that are useful to all of us developing CCs. Then we can celebrate a set of answers collectively in 2007.

                          "May God preserve us from single vision and Newton's sleep." Willam Blake


                          John Rogers
                          Cydlynydd Prosiect
                          Project Coordinator

                          Sefydliad Arian Cymunedol Cymru
                          Wales Institute for Community Currencies
                          Ty Aneurin Bevan Aneurin Bevan House
                          40 Stryd y Castell 40 Castle St.
                          Tredegar Tredegar
                          Blaenau Gwent Blaenau Gwent
                          NP22 3DQ NP22 3DQ

                          Ffon/Tel:
                          01495 712925
                          0781 5155127

                          E-bost/E-mail: john.rogers@...

                          Y Prosiect Partneriaid gan Prifsygol Cymru Casnewydd, Plant Y Cymoedd ac Time Banks UK, rhan-ariennir gan yr Cronfa Ddatblygu Ranbarthol Ewropeiaidd
                          A partnership between University of Wales Newport, Valleys Kids and Time Banks UK part financed with European Regional Development Funds.

                          ________________________________

                          From: cyfranogi@yahoogroups.com on behalf of iou100@...
                          Sent: Thu 04/01/2007 11:40
                          To: cyfranogi@yahoogroups.com
                          Cc: timebanksuk@...: IJCCR@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [cyfranogi] Integrated currency systems [What are our dreams for 2007?]



                          John,

                          Agreed in principle, but do you speak for TBWales or TBUK ?

                          The question arises in view of "Doing it differently in Wales',
                          where 'reciprocity' appears to be only a possible (hoped-for)
                          product -- as distinct from 'volunteering for reward' cf BBC
                          Timebank which promotes 'volunteering per se' (NO reward
                          other than satisfaction).

                          Do you have a recipe for 'INTEGRATING' TBUK, Cyfranogi,
                          and LLKU. The two former dependent on generous external
                          funding; the latter self-funded -- thus ultimately most easily
                          sustainable. Are TBUK and Cyfranogi willing to use currently
                          available funds to enable LLUK to integrate on an equal footing ?

                          Edgar was recommending 'collaboration' (Dec 2000 e-mail)
                          six years ago. Richard Rockerfeller even came all the way
                          from USA to Glastonbury to encourage AVALON TB-LETS.
                          The outcome ???

                          So when does 'talking' translate into 'walking' ? (-:

                          May 2007 celebrate an answer

                          jane.

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • iou100@aol.com
                          Hi John (Rogers) Thanks for the Xmas/New Year present of some facts ; would that it were not such a scarce commodity in the CC world, members of which
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jan 5, 2007
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                            Hi John (Rogers)

                            Thanks for the Xmas/New Year present of some 'facts'; would that it were
                            not such a scarce commodity in the CC world, members of which (other than in
                            the rare case of Hanbat LETS in S.Korea -- see
                            _www.members.aol.com/tbnk100/hanbat-lets-stats.html_
                            (http://www.members.aol.com/iou100/hanbat-lets.html) )
                            tend to be very reluctant to display such statistical data about their
                            activities as is normal in the world of commerce and public services
                            eg. health and education etc -- to the extent that the Freedom of
                            Information Act allows us to ask what any public official (excepting perhaps the
                            Secret Services -- incl. TBUK salaried brokers ?) to
                            account for what he/she does with public money.

                            More importantly, can there really be any development of CC on
                            any significant scale relative to, say, 10 million potential 'clients' in
                            UK (40 million in USA) entailing potentially £/$Billions, unless there
                            is proper disclosure of details from which calculations can be made about
                            cost-effectiveness/sustainability etc.

                            For starters, your e-mail mentions 25 CC groups in Wales; but,
                            given your belief in 'working, talking and acting as honestly as
                            possible etc.' could you not have added appropriate numbers
                            of members and 'trading activities'.etc. (or maybe an URL to
                            some report like Hanbat LETS which contained such data )

                            NOT just for Jane/David but for all those interested in seeing CC
                            develope into something rather more than it currently seems to
                            be -- ie some 4000 'members' for TBUK: at an average funding
                            cost of some £400 per member/year, and anything up to some £40
                            per recorded 'hour-credit'. That's £400 million p.year were TBUK
                            able to recruit just one million of the potential ten million members.

                            I would be delighted to see more accurate figures if anyone can be
                            found to provide them, for only thus can a truly useful, sustainable
                            form of CC (TB or LETS or SEL or Tauschringe, whatever) emerge
                            from all the chatter about 'interest-free money', spreadsheets and
                            yoga etc.etc

                            Good hunting and Happy/successful New Year,

                            jane.
                            . .





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • John Rogers
                            At last a dialogue rather than sniping! From your two emails I now understand some of your personal motivation as well as your wider concerns. In fact we share
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jan 7, 2007
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                              At last a dialogue rather than sniping!

                              From your two emails I now understand some of your personal motivation as well as your wider concerns.

                              In fact we share the same concerns. Let me tell you my story and learning curve so that you can understand where I am coming from.

                              I co-founded, chaired and am a member of South Powys LETS since 1993. After all of the early hopes, promise and somewhat utopian discussions of early LETS activists around the world (a lot set up in the early 90s in a period of economic recession) I constantly come back to the feeling that 'we can do better than this.'
                              Many LETS have failed, achieving average participation rates of 120 members with a few thousand credits exchanged a year. The biggest known LETS was I think the Australian Blue Mountains LETS with about 2000 members but that was a rare exception to the norm. Most of them struggle (d) along on volunteer effort, some have experimented with funding and development workers but the story remains essentially the same - high promise, low delivery.

                              Four years ago I got involved in the UK time banking movement. I joined the board of Time Banks UK. Here the same story was repeated. High hopes, lots of rhetoric, some time banks doing very well and then collapsing when funding ran out, a few struggling along without funding. Lots of well meaning effort without a strategic sense of how to improve practice and 'sustainability'. I kept on pointing out the need to pay attention to feedback from the field and to look at the sustainability question seriously.

                              We set up the Wales Institute for Community Currencies in 2003 with the specific aim of learning from 20 years of experiments with both LETS and time banks with no ideological commitment to any particular model, except in the short term to promote a new form of time banking as a tool for community development in the ex coalfields areas of South Wales, based on community development aims.

                              This is what we have learned.

                              The person to person 'mutual credit' model of both LETS and conventional Time Dollars/Time Banks is a limited model that will continue to produce frustration, burnout and limited effects in practice. Why?

                              Take person to person first. Setting up a structure to encourage exchanges between individuals, encouraging them to offer their time and skills to each other will build community but very slowly, one exchange at a time. In LETS people find it frustrating because they list all their skills in a directory and then sit and wait for the phone to ring and it doesn't. So they go out to social events and meet people and then a few more exchanges may happen. In a time bank people wait for the broker to set up exchanges for them. It will happen eventually, but it will only benefit a relatively few people after much effort and investment of time and money (where funding is involved).
                              The mutual credit mechanism is also problematical. The theory has always been that those 'in commitment' (to use LETS jargon) have some kind of moral obligation to pay off a negative balance to the system or club or community. In practice people leave LETS with both debits and credits and they are written off. Some systems may well have crashed because people lost belief in the purchasing power of their credits.
                              Time banks do not seem to worry so much about this aspect as the primary aim is social rather than economic but it could cause problems if they grew bigger.

                              Having got these insights we set out with a different approach which goes like this.

                              Development worker (agency) or local volunteer asks Community A what they wish to achieve over the next 12 months. Together they list a set of simple goals. Run the community centre, plant trees, do litter picks etc.
                              They then analyse existing volunteer capacity to do these jobs. (We call it a 'baseline audit'). Say there are 5000 hours available at the moment.
                              We ask how much capacity we need to achieve the above goals. Say we need to double capacity to 10,000 hours. We now know we need to be able to 'underwrite' or guarantee 10,000 hours of labour or effort.
                              The job of the time bank is now to make sure that 10,000 hours of rewards or services are available for people to redeem their time credits when they have gained them from community service.

                              We are discovering that this approach works particularly well with young people attending youth centres. By offering motivating rewards such as trips and driving lessons (funded by Lottery, local businesses etc.) young people change their attitude to community work and volunteering and youth workers report a complete change in the working atmosphere. It also works with adult learners to encourage them into adult learning activities and it works to encourage people to run community centres.

                              The Holy Grail here is scale. How many people could potentially benefit from such an approach whilst keeping funding costs to a minimum?

                              One answer we have found to this is to start talking to local authorities about undercapacity in leisure and arts centres so that an hour of swimming or cinema at the local centre can also be contributed to the central pot to underwrite community participation.

                              And our job as an Institute is to communicate these insights to both practitioners and policy makers. How do we do this?

                              With practitioners we encourage them to take this simple tool and experiment. So the old Miners Welfare Hall at Blaengarw has employed two workers with Lottery money to coordinate a Time Centre and local network based around the hall.

                              With policy makers and funders we point to the evidence from practice so far and ask them to invest in new experiments to improve practice and develop models as outlined above that will potentially benefit far more people than the current ones.

                              And we may be wrong about all of this. Maybe CCs are a complete blind alley but at least we will have tested them to destruction!

                              The other area crying out for work is the interface between CCs and other tools within the social economy such as credit unions, cooperatives, social enterprises etc. The Dutch NGO Strohalm has done interesting work on this in Brazil with its Credito project but I am not aware of any developments in the UK that tie them together. I would love to hear about any that people know of. Also see my paper in the <cyfranogi> archive presented to the 'Reclaiming the Economy' conference last September.

                              I have also initiated a 12 month Task and Finish (meaning what it says to finish this September) group within the time banking movement in the UK to look at the key factors for sustainability within time banking (equally applicable to any CC):
                              sustainable community development processes
                              sustainable participants
                              sustainable coordinators
                              sustainable structures (governance and management)
                              sustainable funding.

                              I hope this description has clarified our approach and where we sit in CC world. The challenge to all of us is to critically evaluate actual practice in a spirit of respect and mutual support. Call me naive but I keep believing this is possible!




                              John Rogers
                              Cydlynydd Prosiect
                              Project Coordinator

                              Sefydliad Arian Cymunedol Cymru
                              Wales Institute for Community Currencies
                              Ty Aneurin Bevan Aneurin Bevan House
                              40 Stryd y Castell 40 Castle St.
                              Tredegar Tredegar
                              Blaenau Gwent Blaenau Gwent
                              NP22 3DQ NP22 3DQ

                              Ffon/Tel:
                              01495 712925
                              0781 5155127

                              E-bost/E-mail: john.rogers@...

                              Y Prosiect Partneriaid gan Prifsygol Cymru Casnewydd, Plant Y Cymoedd ac Time Banks UK, rhan-ariennir gan yr Cronfa Ddatblygu Ranbarthol Ewropeiaidd
                              A partnership between University of Wales Newport, Valleys Kids and Time Banks UK part financed with European Regional Development Funds.

                              ________________________________

                              From: cyfranogi@yahoogroups.com on behalf of iou100@...
                              Sent: Fri 05/01/2007 21:24
                              To: cyfranogi@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [cyfranogi] Integrated currency systems [What are our dreams for 2007?]



                              Hi John (Rogers)

                              Thanks for the Xmas/New Year present of some 'facts'; would that it were
                              not such a scarce commodity in the CC world, members of which (other than in
                              the rare case of Hanbat LETS in S.Korea -- see
                              _www.members.aol.com/tbnk100/hanbat-lets-stats.html_
                              (http://www.members.aol.com/iou100/hanbat-lets.html <http://www.members.aol.com/iou100/hanbat-lets.html> ) )
                              tend to be very reluctant to display such statistical data about their
                              activities as is normal in the world of commerce and public services
                              eg. health and education etc -- to the extent that the Freedom of
                              Information Act allows us to ask what any public official (excepting perhaps the
                              Secret Services -- incl. TBUK salaried brokers ?) to
                              account for what he/she does with public money.

                              More importantly, can there really be any development of CC on
                              any significant scale relative to, say, 10 million potential 'clients' in
                              UK (40 million in USA) entailing potentially £/$Billions, unless there
                              is proper disclosure of details from which calculations can be made about
                              cost-effectiveness/sustainability etc.

                              For starters, your e-mail mentions 25 CC groups in Wales; but,
                              given your belief in 'working, talking and acting as honestly as
                              possible etc.' could you not have added appropriate numbers
                              of members and 'trading activities'.etc. (or maybe an URL to
                              some report like Hanbat LETS which contained such data )

                              NOT just for Jane/David but for all those interested in seeing CC
                              develope into something rather more than it currently seems to
                              be -- ie some 4000 'members' for TBUK: at an average funding
                              cost of some £400 per member/year, and anything up to some £40
                              per recorded 'hour-credit'. That's £400 million p.year were TBUK
                              able to recruit just one million of the potential ten million members.

                              I would be delighted to see more accurate figures if anyone can be
                              found to provide them, for only thus can a truly useful, sustainable
                              form of CC (TB or LETS or SEL or Tauschringe, whatever) emerge
                              from all the chatter about 'interest-free money', spreadsheets and
                              yoga etc.etc

                              Good hunting and Happy/successful New Year,

                              jane.
                              . .




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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