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Why there is t- in German tausend "thousand"?

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  • Grzegorz Jagodziński
    Germanic *th yielded d in German. So, we would expect *dausent 1000 (cf. Eng. thousand, Old Saxon thu^sundig etc. (+ attestation of t- in Balto-Slavic).
    Message 1 of 50 , Nov 6, 2013
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      Germanic *th yielded d in German. So, we would expect *dausent "1000" (cf. Eng. thousand, Old Saxon thu^sundig etc. (+ attestation of t- in Balto-Slavic). Dutch duizend is regular, as well as OHG du^sunt is.
       
      If the MHD and modern German forms with t- are borrowings, from what dialect/language?
       
      And if their development was regular, are there more German words with t- on the place of Germanic th-?
       
      Kluge only states "Lautlich zu erwarten wäre nhd. d-" - this is just statement, no way explanation. If d- was expected like Kluge says, why t-?
       
    • Bhrihskwobhloukstroy
      ... *Bhr.: for *-H- cf. *treuHp- in Gk. try:p ao: vs. *treup- in BSl. trup-; anyway if You don t admit *dhreuHbh- because otherwise unattested You can consider
      Message 50 of 50 , Nov 25, 2013
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        2013/11/26, dgkilday57@... <dgkilday57@...>:
        >
        > > *Bhr.: (...) "nhd.
        > Traube (...) Grundbedeutung wahrscheinlich »Klumpen«. (...)
        > Wahrscheinlich zu idg. trup (Weiterbildung zu tru [...]). Vgl. lit.
        > trupùs bröcklig, trupù trupė́ti in Brocken zerfallen (...)"
        > (Wortschatz der Germanischen Spracheinheit unter Mitwirkung von
        > Hjalmar S. Falk gänzlich umgearbeitet von Alf Torp (Vergleichendes
        > Wörterbuch der Indogermanischen Sprachen von August Fick — Vierte
        > Auflage — Dritter Teil), Göttingen, Vandenhoeck und Ruprecht, 1909
        > [573 S.], p. 195), cf. Pokorny IEW 1073 (√*treuH- in Old Slav. tryjǫ)
        > : ibid. 275 √*dhreubh- gr. thrýptō ,zerreiben, zerbröckeln (...)‘
        > (√*dhreuHp- in OSax. drūƀōn), therefore OHG thrūbo < PIE *truHp-ón- ≠
        > OHG trūbo < PIE *dhruHbh-ón- (OHG synonyms from parallel PIE synonymic
        > roots)
        >
        > DGK: You have invented a root *dhreuHbh- ex nihilo. There is no laryngeal
        > in *dhreubh- as shown by the short vowel in the Greek zero-grade reflexes.

        *Bhr.: for *-H- cf. *treuHp- in Gk. try:p'ao: vs. *treup- in BSl.
        trup-; anyway if You don't admit *dhreuHbh- because otherwise
        unattested You can consider *dhreuHp- in OSax. drūƀōn


        > [DGK] Moreover the words interpreted as formed from extensions of *dhreu- involve
        > casting down, breaking to pieces, crushing, etc. This is done with clusters
        > of grapes, but not specifically with clusters of grapes,

        *Bhr.: I can't catch the difference


        > [DGK] and most of the
        > actual words have no specific application to viticulture or wine-making.

        *Bhr.: This holds true for *treuH- as well

        > [DGK] Therefore, the connections in the EWDS are much more plausible than yours.

        *Bhr.: Personal hate makes You blind
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