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RE: RE: Re: Is Basque IE?

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  • oalexandre
    [Tavi] In other words, Paleo-Basque/Iberian /r/ wasn t part of a strong/weak pair and it s reflected as a trill in modern Basque and Romance. However, there re
    Message 1 of 61 , Sep 30, 2013
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      [Tavi]
      In other words,
      Paleo-Basque/Iberian /r/ wasn't part of a strong/weak pair and it's reflected as a trill in modern Basque and Romance. However, there're some reare cases of Basque /r/ arising from gemination of /R/, as in larre 'meadow; heath; uncultivated land, desert', a loanword from Celtic (Gaulish) *landa: 'heath, moor' > *lanna > larra > larre.
      >
      In these cases, we've got /RR/ = /r/ as in Romance, but as a member of a contrasting pair, /R/ is the weak counterpart of /l/, as shown by the alternation -r- ~ -l in combinatory forms, where the strong member of the pair appears in word-final.

      In Mitxelena's system the /R/ ~ /l/ pair is reflected as /l/ ~ /ll/ (/L/ in his own nomenclature), as he modelled it after Romance loanwords. Actually, his "Proto-Basque" is more like a Vasco-Romance hybrid, although this doesn't mean it reflects a creole as I wrongly suggested in a former message.

      On the other hand, /R/ *does* appear at word-final in a comparatively few number of words (also including combinatory forms), as e.g. ur 'water', zur 'wood', often alternating with /n/ or zero. This suggests the weak rhotic can be the product of denasalization in Paleo-Basque, although there's no fixed rule about this, as the cases where the nasal survived coexist with those where it didn't, even within the same word. Furthermore, at word-final the nasal can be *secondary* to a labial (forbidden there by phonotaxis), as in the case of the forementioned exampled, which would be respectively reconstructed as *ub-, *sub-.

      Between vowels, the weak rhotic can also derive from a voiced dental aproximant /D/. Summing up, in most cases Basque /R/ does NOT continue a former rhotic.
    • oalexandre
      [Tavi] However, there re some reare cases of Basque /r/ arising from gemination of /R/, as in larre meadow; heath; uncultivated land, desert , a loanword from
      Message 61 of 61 , Oct 21, 2013
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        [Tavi]
        However, there're some reare cases of Basque /r/ arising from gemination of /R/, as in larre 'meadow; heath; uncultivated land, desert', a loanword from Celtic (Gaulish) *landa: 'heath, moor' > *lanna > larra > larre.
        >
        That is, the shift /nn/ > /RR/ happened in Paleo-Basque.

        [DGK]
        But _landa_ 'campo, pieza de terreno' occurs widely in Basque (Bisc., Guip., Aezc., Lab., High & Low Nav., Ronc.) and appears to continue Gaul. *landa: directly. 
        >
        I think this is from a different Celtic word *landa: '(enclosed) field, plot of land', homonymous to Gaulish *landa: 'heath', Cornish lan, Breton lann 'heath, steppe', which would require a Celtic protoform *Flanda: (cfr. Gascon branda, brana 'heath'). Unfortunately, Celtic specialists conflated both.

        > Moreover a Late Gaul. *lanna would have given Bq. *lana, since Latin _anno:na_ gives Bq. _anoa_. 
        >
        Actually, nn > n isn't a Paleo-Basque but a Vasco-Romance development shared by Gascon, where we find lana.
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