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Re: Lithuanian and Latvian words for water deriving from different grades?

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  • r_brunner
    ... I don t think anyone is posing as a lexicographer. Wiktionary properly displays the diacritics you mention, but I did not copy them here, because I was
    Message 1 of 6 , May 23 10:02 PM
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      --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "r_brunner" <rbrunner@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Wiktionary gives 'vanduo' as modern Lithuanian for 'water', and 'udens' as the corresponding Latvian word. In both etymologies the same Proto-Balto-Slavic root of *wondor is given.
      > >
      > > [...]
      >
      > The Latvian word has a circumflex over the first vowel, which is therefore long and cannot represent zero-grade PIE *ud-. It escapes me how anyone posing as a lexicographer can neglect diacritics. The Lithuanian word also has a circumflex over the last vowel. It points to a protoform with nom. sg. *wondo:r, obl. sg. *wonden-, but other BS lgs. do not have the same inflection. For starters see Pokorny, IEW 79-80, and references.
      >
      > DGK
      >

      I don't think anyone is posing as a lexicographer. Wiktionary properly displays the diacritics you mention, but I did not copy them here, because I was afraid the messaging system will mangle them anyway, and I did not know the conventions how to properly "transliterate" them to pure 7-bit ASCII to be on the safe side. (I tried to find a "how to" manual regarding this for newbie Cybalists like me, but was not successful...)

      For you it may be perfectly clear that vowel length, indicated by that macron (not circumflex) on the u of the Latvian word, completely rules out derivation from *ud-, but both things are interesting news to this humble beginner - thanks!
    • dgkilday57
      ... I stand corrected, and I had no business criticizing Wiktionary for dropping diacritics in the first place. DGK
      Message 2 of 6 , May 30 5:04 PM
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        --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Sergejus Tarasovas" <sergejus.tarasovas@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@> wrote:
        > > The Latvian word has a circumflex over the first vowel, which is therefore long and cannot represent zero-grade PIE *ud-.
        >
        > Well, formally, it can - the broken tone (ûdèns) is exactly what one would expect to develop before an Indo-European media (*d) by Winter's Law in a word of a mobile accentual paradigm. (Had it belonged to an immobile one, one would expect the sustained tone thus still a long vowel).

        I stand corrected, and I had no business criticizing Wiktionary for dropping diacritics in the first place.

        DGK
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