Re: Lithuanian and Latvian words for water deriving from different grades?
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@...> wrote:
>I don't think anyone is posing as a lexicographer. Wiktionary properly displays the diacritics you mention, but I did not copy them here, because I was afraid the messaging system will mangle them anyway, and I did not know the conventions how to properly "transliterate" them to pure 7-bit ASCII to be on the safe side. (I tried to find a "how to" manual regarding this for newbie Cybalists like me, but was not successful...)
> --- In email@example.com, "r_brunner" <rbrunner@> wrote:
> > Wiktionary gives 'vanduo' as modern Lithuanian for 'water', and 'udens' as the corresponding Latvian word. In both etymologies the same Proto-Balto-Slavic root of *wondor is given.
> > [...]
> The Latvian word has a circumflex over the first vowel, which is therefore long and cannot represent zero-grade PIE *ud-. It escapes me how anyone posing as a lexicographer can neglect diacritics. The Lithuanian word also has a circumflex over the last vowel. It points to a protoform with nom. sg. *wondo:r, obl. sg. *wonden-, but other BS lgs. do not have the same inflection. For starters see Pokorny, IEW 79-80, and references.
For you it may be perfectly clear that vowel length, indicated by that macron (not circumflex) on the u of the Latvian word, completely rules out derivation from *ud-, but both things are interesting news to this humble beginner - thanks!
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Sergejus Tarasovas" <sergejus.tarasovas@...> wrote:
>I stand corrected, and I had no business criticizing Wiktionary for dropping diacritics in the first place.
> --- In email@example.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@> wrote:
> > The Latvian word has a circumflex over the first vowel, which is therefore long and cannot represent zero-grade PIE *ud-.
> Well, formally, it can - the broken tone (ûdèns) is exactly what one would expect to develop before an Indo-European media (*d) by Winter's Law in a word of a mobile accentual paradigm. (Had it belonged to an immobile one, one would expect the sustained tone thus still a long vowel).