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Re: [tied] Re: On Greek anthro:pos 'man'

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  • Joao S. Lopes
    The relationship would not be through regular Greek. Perhaps some substratal non-Greek IE compound *h1ndHus-ro:po-. U dropped as in some Albanian and Armenian
    Message 1 of 71 , Apr 9 7:44 AM
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      The relationship would not be through regular Greek. Perhaps some substratal non-Greek IE compound *h1ndHus-ro:po-. U dropped as in some Albanian and Armenian words; and -r- < -sr- or < rhotacism -s-, as possbile shifts. I'd guess *h1n-dHuh2s-h3oKW- > *anthuzoq-o > *anthuroqo- > anthropo-. If it was a "normal" Greek word, expected form would * a(n)thyops

      JS Lopes



      De: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...>
      Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
      Enviadas: Terça-feira, 9 de Abril de 2013 10:14
      Assunto: Re: [tied] Re: On Greek anthro:pos 'man'

       
      /th/, /r/, /o:/, /p/ (and the absence of /u/, /h/, and /-s-/) would
      remain unexplained: too much for a six-phonemes lexical entry (final
      -os isn't diagnostic)

      2013/4/9, Joao S. <josimo70@...>:
      >
      > Could be Greek anthro:pos related to Hit. antuuahhas- / antuhs- 'man' < nom.
      > *h1n-dHueh2-o:s, gen.sg. *h1n-dHuh2-s-os ? It would imply an Anatolic IE
      > substratum in Greece. Maybe Endymion also fits into this root.
      >
      > JS Lopes
      >
      > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Francesco Brighenti" <frabrig@...> wrote:
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister wrote:
      >>
      >> > Isn't Greek -nth- cognate to Anatolian -nd-???
      >>
      >> We (you & I) have discussed this in the past. See my post about Anna
      >> Morpurgo-Davies' arguments against the Pre-Greek substratum in Greek being
      >> (IE) Anatolian or "para-Anatolian" at
      >>
      >> http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/63882
      >>
      >> The regular reflex of the PIE *-went- suffix ('having X') is the consonant
      >> cluster -nt- in Greek, and -nt-/-nd- in Anatolian. Why would Greek have
      >> borrowed names in -nd-/-nt- from an Anatolian or "para-Anatolian"
      >> substrate with operating a shift to -nth- against the expected -nd- or
      >> -nt- ?
      >>
      >> Also J. Chadwick ("Greek and Pre-Greek", TPhS 1969, pp. 80-98) stated that
      >> the -nth- formations in mainland Greece and the Aegean Islands must
      >> represent the relics of a non-IE pre-Greek substrate, not of an Anatolian
      >> (or "para-Anatolian") IE substrate possessed of -nd-/-nt- formations. He
      >> noted there are no known examples of one and the same IE-inherited root,
      >> common to both the Greek and Anatolian branches, to which is added the
      >> -nth- suffix in Greek and the -nt-/-nd- one in Anatolian.
      >>
      >> Kind regards,
      >> Francesco
      >>
      >
      >
      >


    • Bhrihskwobhloukstroy
      The shortcoming is that this set of diachronic transformations has no independent evidence. In itself it s neither good nor bad, but if compared with a regular
      Message 71 of 71 , Apr 9 11:29 AM
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        The shortcoming is that this set of diachronic transformations has
        no independent evidence. In itself it's neither good nor bad, but if
        compared with a regular etymology like *h2ndhro-h3kw-o-s...

        2013/4/9, Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>:
        > The relationship would not be through regular Greek. Perhaps some substratal
        > non-Greek IE compound *h1ndHus-ro:po-. U dropped as in some Albanian and
        > Armenian words; and -r- < -sr- or < rhotacism -s-, as possbile shifts. I'd
        > guess *h1n-dHuh2s-h3oKW- > *anthuzoq-o > *anthuroqo- > anthropo-. If it was
        > a "normal" Greek word, expected form would * a(n)thyops
        >
        > JS Lopes
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > De: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...>
        > Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
        > Enviadas: Terça-feira, 9 de Abril de 2013 10:14
        > Assunto: Re: [tied] Re: On Greek anthro:pos 'man'
        >
        >
        >
        > /th/, /r/, /o:/, /p/ (and the absence of /u/, /h/, and /-s-/) would
        > remain unexplained: too much for a six-phonemes lexical entry (final
        > -os isn't diagnostic)
        >
        > 2013/4/9, Joao S. <josimo70@...>:
        >>
        >> Could be Greek anthro:pos related to Hit. antuuahhas- / antuhs- 'man' <
        >> nom.
        >> *h1n-dHueh2-o:s, gen.sg. *h1n-dHuh2-s-os ? It would imply an Anatolic IE
        >> substratum in Greece. Maybe Endymion also fits into this root.
        >>
        >> JS Lopes
        >>
        >> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Francesco Brighenti" <frabrig@...>
        >> wrote:
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister wrote:
        >>>
        >>> > Isn't Greek -nth- cognate to Anatolian -nd-???
        >>>
        >>> We (you & I) have discussed this in the past. See my post about Anna
        >>> Morpurgo-Davies' arguments against the Pre-Greek substratum in Greek
        >>> being
        >>> (IE) Anatolian or "para-Anatolian" at
        >>>
        >>> http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/63882
        >>>
        >>> The regular reflex of the PIE *-went- suffix ('having X') is the
        >>> consonant
        >>> cluster -nt- in Greek, and -nt-/-nd- in Anatolian. Why would Greek have
        >>> borrowed names in -nd-/-nt- from an Anatolian or "para-Anatolian"
        >>> substrate with operating a shift to -nth- against the expected -nd- or
        >>> -nt- ?
        >>>
        >>> Also J. Chadwick ("Greek and Pre-Greek", TPhS 1969, pp. 80-98) stated
        >>> that
        >>> the -nth- formations in mainland Greece and the Aegean Islands must
        >>> represent the relics of a non-IE pre-Greek substrate, not of an
        >>> Anatolian
        >>> (or "para-Anatolian") IE substrate possessed of -nd-/-nt- formations. He
        >>> noted there are no known examples of one and the same IE-inherited root,
        >>> common to both the Greek and Anatolian branches, to which is added the
        >>> -nth- suffix in Greek and the -nt-/-nd- one in Anatolian.
        >>>
        >>> Kind regards,
        >>> Francesco
        >>>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
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