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Re: [tied] potto

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  • Tavi
    ... kwachro . ... Spanish ... voiced ... variant /s´/. ... where it predominates in Latin America correspond to settlement from eastern and northeastern
    Message 1 of 62 , Jan 8, 2013
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      --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister wrote:
      >
      > Agreed, in much of Latin America, is an assibilated alveo-palatal
      > affricate, pronounced sort of like /chr/ as in "chres" and
      "kwachro".
      >
      > > Actually, this is the so-called "assibilated r" found in some
      Spanish
      > > varieties (including Peninsular ones) in the groups /tr, dr/ and
      > > described in Zamora Munné & Guitart (1988): "Dialectología
      > > Hispanoamericana", who quote
      > > Oroz (1966): "La lengua castellana en Chile". Apparently, it's a
      voiced
      > > fricative quite similar to Polish /z´/, also with a voiceless
      variant /s´/.
      >
      > Where is it spoken in Spain? In Aragón, Rioja or Navarra? The areas
      where it predominates in Latin America correspond to settlement from
      eastern and northeastern Spain
      >
      Yes, that's right, it's found on Rioja and Navarra and probably also in
      neighbouring Aragonese areas. Hardly a native feature of Basque as
      proposed by our colleague slatos.
    • Tavi
      ... not ... trisipu ... Which is more conservative than Hispano-Romance. It took me some time, but finally I ve got it straight: *pris´ipu *pis´ipru
      Message 62 of 62 , Feb 7, 2013
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        > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" wrote:
        >
        > In "*prisipu > trisipu > *drisipu > lizifru", what are the stages in
        > regard to metathesis? Since dr > lr > l-r is impossible or "highly
        > unlikely" to you, why did metathesis take place? You first said all
        > these were << pesebre, so did you first think it was p-r- > pr-0-
        > met.?
        >
        > > Since the Latin form has pr-, lizifru could actually derive from a
        > > methatesized form *pisipru akin to Spanish pesebre < *pesepre <
        > > *presepe.
        >
        > > I know ONE is methatesized (which depends on when/where borrowed),
        > > but that's the only dif. in env.; they're not from 2 kinds of Bq.
        >
        > > I don't like abbr., you know, but lizifru is structurally (although
        not
        > > phonetically) identical to Spanish pesebre (metathesized), while
        trisipu
        > > is akin to Aragonese presepe (non-metathesized). So the latter looks
        > > like a rather undigested loanword from Pyrenaic Romance.
        >
        Which is more conservative than Hispano-Romance. It took me some time,
        but finally I've got it straight: *pris´ipu > *pis´ipru >
        *Bis´ipru > lisiFru /lizifru/. There's no intermediate dental here,
        nor in the other cases where p-/b-/m- > *B- > l-.
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