Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [tied] fortis , f- >>

Expand Messages
  • stlatos
    ... Borrowed words like ro:bus with eu ou o: instead of u: (as in native L. words) indicate Oscan-Umbrian, like L., voiced internal bh ph f v , but,
    Message 1 of 206 , Dec 8, 2012
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...> wrote:
      >
      > Where's "Oscan-Umbrian /v/"?


      Borrowed words like ro:bus with eu > ou > o: instead of u: (as in native L. words) indicate Oscan-Umbrian, like L., voiced internal bh > ph > f > v , but, unlike L., no v > b . In borrowing a word with -v-, which didn't exist at that stage in L., it was replaced by either b or f, both one feature away, creating doublets like ro:bus : ru:fus (if f > v only occurred in 1 O-U language (with ou > o:), it still would be hard to tell all the details, but that's not important). All that matters is it's analogous to v- > f- \ b- or f- > bortitz \ portitz , not to a two-stage borrowing (in which the rest of, say, bortitz \ portitz, would likely be dif.).


      >
      > 2012/12/8, stlatos <sean@...>:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Bhrihskwobhloukstroy
      > > <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@> wrote:
      > >>
      > >> For instance (Oscan-Umbrian loanwords)?
      > >>
      > >> 2012/12/8, stlatos <sean@>:
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@> wrote:
      > >> >>
      > >> >
      > >> >> A doublet like <bortitz>/<portitz> from Lat. <fortis> in this view
      > >> >> requires no intermediate language, merely an earlier and later stage
      > >> >> of
      > >> >> borrowing the same word.
      > >> >>
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> > I don't think 2 stages of borrowing are needed. If Bq. had no f,
      > >> > then
      > >> > either f > p or f > v ( > b later) would be equally good substitutions.
      > >> > This is sim. to how L. borrowed Osc-U. words with -v- as either -b- or
      > >> > -f-
      > >> > (before w > v in L.).
      > >> >
      > >
      > >
      > > Sihler mentioned ro:bus : ru:fus, *londH- > lumbi: = loins (and some
      > > related words). He compared it to opt. OE borrowings of v (vannus > fann,
      > > v- > berbena, etc.). Either shows the reality of what I proposed.
      > >
    • oalexandre
      ... From a statistical point of view, *sreu-m- can be found in Balto-Slavic, Albanian, Greek, Celtic and Germanic, while *reuH-m- is only found in Germanic.
      Message 206 of 206 , Jul 3, 2014
      • 0 Attachment
        ---In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, <octavianoaf24@...> wrote :
        >
        From a statistical point of view, *sreu-m- can be found in Balto-Slavic, Albanian, Greek, Celtic and Germanic, while *reuH-m- is only found in Germanic. This would imply the former etymology is preferrable, although the loss of *s- should be still accounted for.
        >
        I meant "a purely statistical" and "seems preferrable".
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.