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Re: [tied] Re: Hercynian (again)

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  • Brian M. Scott
    At 5:34:14 PM on Wednesday, February 29, 2012, ... It really looks like a Middle English echoic formation, parallel to and sharing a sound-symbolic
    Message 1 of 96 , Mar 1, 2012
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      At 5:34:14 PM on Wednesday, February 29, 2012,
      Bhrihskwobhloukstroy wrote:

      > Yet it's quite curious that we find crash 'to fall with a
      > noise' apparently with the very *-sk- inchoative suffix
      > suffix and the root of crack 'to resound', Dutch kraken,
      > but Old High German krahhon with expected -hh-, Armenian
      > krkač̣ 'to make noise' again with /k/ = Germanic /k/ and
      > Lithuanian girgiždė́ti 'to creak', Old Indic gárjati
      > 'roars'. It really looks like a PIE *grog'-sk'oh2

      It really looks like a Middle English echoic formation,
      parallel to <clash> and sharing a sound-symbolic final
      element with <dash>, <smash>, <splash>, etc.

      Brian
    • Tavi
      ... However, they ... spread glottis], so ... languages ... other ... While I still think aspiration is the stop series III is an areal feature of some IE
      Message 96 of 96 , Apr 21 11:11 AM
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        > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski gpiotr@ wrote:
        > >
        > > I'm afraid this is actually a huge misrepresentation, because
        > > aspiration is a feature of VOICELESS consonants, not voiced ones. However, they
        > > could be treated as "breathy voiced" or "murmured", which in IPA
        > > have got a raised [*h\*] (the voiced counterpart of [*h*]).
        >
        > Breathy voice patterns phonologically with aspiration in
        > Indo-European, especially in Indo-Aryan (Grassmann's Law).
        > They are both phonetic manifestations of the distinctive feature [+ spread glottis], so
        > there's no need to be pedantic about the distinction.
        >
        > > I strongly disagree. Grassmann's Law only applies to those IE languages
        > > which have true aspirated stops in series III, so IMHO there's no
        > > justification for reconstructing a "voiced aspirated" (or whatever other
        > > name you choose) series in PIE.
        >
        While I still think aspiration is the stop series III is an areal feature of some IE languages, and hence not reconstructable for PIE, I've discovered a couple of possible examples of Grassmann's Law in Latin:

        Latin pinguis < *pºngW-i- < traditional PIE *bhengh-u- 'thick, abundant'
        Latin pra:tum < *prex-to- < traditional PIE *bhergh- 'high'
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