Re: [tied] Re: Hercynian (again)
- At 5:34:14 PM on Wednesday, February 29, 2012,
> Yet it's quite curious that we find crash 'to fall with aIt really looks like a Middle English echoic formation,
> noise' apparently with the very *-sk- inchoative suffix
> suffix and the root of crack 'to resound', Dutch kraken,
> but Old High German krahhon with expected -hh-, Armenian
> krkač̣ 'to make noise' again with /k/ = Germanic /k/ and
> Lithuanian girgiždė́ti 'to creak', Old Indic gárjati
> 'roars'. It really looks like a PIE *grog'-sk'oh2
parallel to <clash> and sharing a sound-symbolic final
element with <dash>, <smash>, <splash>, etc.
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, Piotr Gasiorowski gpiotr@ wrote:While I still think aspiration is the stop series III is an areal feature of some IE languages, and hence not reconstructable for PIE, I've discovered a couple of possible examples of Grassmann's Law in Latin:
> > I'm afraid this is actually a huge misrepresentation, because
> > aspiration is a feature of VOICELESS consonants, not voiced ones. However, they
> > could be treated as "breathy voiced" or "murmured", which in IPA
> > have got a raised [*h\*] (the voiced counterpart of [*h*]).
> Breathy voice patterns phonologically with aspiration in
> Indo-European, especially in Indo-Aryan (Grassmann's Law).
> They are both phonetic manifestations of the distinctive feature [+ spread glottis], so
> there's no need to be pedantic about the distinction.
> > I strongly disagree. Grassmann's Law only applies to those IE languages
> > which have true aspirated stops in series III, so IMHO there's no
> > justification for reconstructing a "voiced aspirated" (or whatever other
> > name you choose) series in PIE.
Latin pinguis < *pºngW-i- < traditional PIE *bhengh-u- 'thick, abundant'
Latin pra:tum < *prex-to- < traditional PIE *bhergh- 'high'