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Re: [tied] request to Celtic specialists

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  • Brian M. Scott
    At 3:12:17 PM on Monday, November 28, 2011, dgkilday57 ... [...] ... Matasović also gives PCelt *kanawon- young animal, young dog, whelp . He derives it
    Message 1 of 45 , Nov 30, 2011
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      At 3:12:17 PM on Monday, November 28, 2011, dgkilday57
      wrote:

      > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57"
      > <dgkilday57@...> wrote:

      [...]

      >> Since Burrow has no problem with Proto-Indo-European
      >> */a/, he extends *kan- 'small' back to PIE and derives
      >> from it Middle Irish <cana>, <cano> 'wolf-cub', Welsh
      >> <cenau> 'wolf-cub, dog-whelp', Latin <canis> 'dog' (on
      >> the theory, earlier 'whelp'), the first element of
      >> Maeonian <Kandaúle:s> 'Dog-Strangler' (epithet of Hermes,
      >> Hipponax fr. 3 Masson), and Slavic <konI> 'horse' (on the
      >> theory, earlier 'foal'). The semantics are not difficult,
      >> with Umbrian <katel> 'dog' against Lat. <catulus> 'young
      >> animal, whelp' providing an illustration, but for those
      >> of us who lean toward Lubotsky in avoiding PIE */a/, the
      >> phonology and morphology pose a challenge. In prevocalic
      >> zero-grade, PIE *ken- should yield *kn.nV- by
      >> Sievers-Edgerton, whence *kanV- in In-Ir and Italic. (The
      >> latter is argued from the P-Italic negative prefix <an->,
      >> apparently generalized from prevocalic position while
      >> Q-Italic extracted preconsonantal *en-, Lat. <in->.) I
      >> will leave the Celtic words aside, since I no longer have
      >> access to recent etymological material.

      > According to Schrijver, cited by Lubotsky (Reflexes of
      > PIE *sk in In-Ir, Incontri Linguistici 24:25-57, fn. 21,
      > 2001), the Celtic forms (including Middle Welsh <ceneu>
      > 'puppy') reflect Proto-Celtic *kanawon- < PIE
      > *kenh{x}won-. If this suffix *-won- functions like
      > Sanskrit -van- (e.g. <yájvan-> 'worshipping' from <yaj->
      > 'to worship'), the root can hardly be *kenh1- 'to pinch,
      > compress' vel sim., since *kénh1won- would have an active
      > sense 'pinching, pincher'. Then again, perhaps a puppy
      > was considered a 'little nipper'.

      Matasović also gives PCelt *kanawon- 'young animal, young
      dog, whelp'. He derives it from PIE *(s)ken- 'young, new',
      with cognates Russ. <ščenók> 'young dog, puppy' and Arm.
      <skund> 'yound dog'. Refs.: LEIA C-32, GPC I: 461, DGVB
      101, EIEC 204.

      Brian
    • stlatos
      ... It is obviously a compound of * kan+, * kan+kYxYuwó:n ken+kYxYuwó:n = young / little dog. At the Celtic stage * kankuwó:n there was dis. *
      Message 45 of 45 , Dec 5, 2011
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        --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@...> wrote:
        >


        > > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57"
        > > > <dgkilday57@> wrote:
        > >
        > > [...]
        > >
        > > >> Since Burrow has no problem with Proto-Indo-European
        > > >> */a/, he extends *kan- 'small' back to PIE and derives
        > > >> from it Middle Irish <cana>, <cano> 'wolf-cub', Welsh
        > > >> <cenau> 'wolf-cub, dog-whelp', Latin <canis> 'dog' (on
        > > >> the theory, earlier 'whelp'), the first element of
        > > >> Maeonian <Kandaúle:s> 'Dog-Strangler' (epithet of Hermes,
        > > >> Hipponax fr. 3 Masson),


        >
        > He must be taking *-awon- as the same second element found in PCelt *altr-awon- 'foster uncle', cf. *awon-ti:r- 'uncle', Lat. <avunculus>, etc., PIE *h2ewh2o- 'grandfather', Lat. <avus>. The problem I see here is that his PCelt *a:wyo- 'descendant, grandchild' is a vrddhi-derivative, which the short vowel of *kanawon- excludes, and 'puppy, whelp' is a descendant, not an ancestor.
        >


        It is obviously a compound of * kan+, * kan+kYxYuwó:n \ ken+kYxYuwó:n = young / little dog. At the Celtic stage * kankuwó:n there was dis. > * kanuwó:n then V-assim. a-u > a-a (sim. to the more common e-a > a-a (more of these are seen in Greek)).


        Kandaúle:s obviously has nothing to do with this root; its given meaning was influenced by folk etymology.
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