Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Kings and Judges

Expand Messages
  • Torsten
    I ve earlier mentioned some intriguing connections between Jewish law at the time of the Book of Judges and Germanic Law.
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 28, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      I've earlier mentioned some intriguing connections between Jewish law at the time of the Book of Judges and Germanic Law.

      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67185
      and ff., esp.
      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67353
      and further
      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67279

      Here's another fun fact: the Germanic
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thervingi
      were ruled by kings *and* judges:

      http://tinyurl.com/6d7qte8
      http://tinyurl.com/6jqx9qh

      But whether he was called scabinus/Schöffe I don't know. It is a possibility.



      Torsten
    • Joao S. Lopes
      I suspect some of the Book of the Judges s tales could be reminiscences of IE Philistean/Anatolian/Mitanian mythology. There s somethoing Varunic in Joshua
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 29, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        I suspect some of the Book of the Judges's tales could be reminiscences of IE Philistean/Anatolian/Mitanian mythology. There's somethoing Varunic in Joshua stopping the sun, and something Vishnu/Vidarr trait in Moses crossing Red Sea. Moses is linked to Midianites... Mitanian substratum?


        JS Lopes


        De: Torsten <tgpedersen@...>
        Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
        Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 29 de Setembro de 2011 3:45
        Assunto: [tied] Kings and Judges

         

        I've earlier mentioned some intriguing connections between Jewish law at the time of the Book of Judges and Germanic Law.

        http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67185
        and ff., esp.
        http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67353
        and further
        http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67279

        Here's another fun fact: the Germanic
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thervingi
        were ruled by kings *and* judges:

        http://tinyurl.com/6d7qte8
        http://tinyurl.com/6jqx9qh

        But whether he was called scabinus/Schöffe I don't know. It is a possibility.

        Torsten



      • cafaristeir
        All right, Joao. According to J.Amsler, Samson s story was of Indo-European origin : the invulnerable warrior who commits three sins before being deprived of
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 29, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          All right, Joao.

          According to J.Amsler, Samson's story was of Indo-European origin : the invulnerable warrior who commits three sins before being deprived of his strength and defeated. His enemies, the Philistines, were possibly Indo-Europeans.
          In my opinion, if there are coincidences in the Frenkish and the Judaic laws, this was not due to a common background, but rather to the fact that those Frenkish laws were written down in Latin by Christian scribes who knew the Biblical precedents.

          Olivier
          http://sambahsa.pbworks.com/

          --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Joao S. Lopes" <josimo70@...> wrote:
          >
          > I suspect some of the Book of the Judges's tales could be reminiscences of IE Philistean/Anatolian/Mitanian mythology. There's somethoing Varunic in Joshua stopping the sun, and something Vishnu/Vidarr trait in Moses crossing Red Sea. Moses is linked to Midianites... Mitanian substratum?
          >
          >
          >
          > JS Lopes
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > De: Torsten <tgpedersen@...>
          > Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
          > Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 29 de Setembro de 2011 3:45
          > Assunto: [tied] Kings and Judges
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          > I've earlier mentioned some intriguing connections between Jewish law at the time of the Book of Judges and Germanic Law.
          >
          > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67185
          > and ff., esp.
          > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67353
          > and further
          > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67279
          >
          > Here's another fun fact: the Germanic
          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thervingi
          > were ruled by kings *and* judges:
          >
          > http://tinyurl.com/6d7qte8
          > http://tinyurl.com/6jqx9qh
          >
          > But whether he was called scabinus/Schöffe I don't know. It is a possibility.
          >
          > Torsten
          >
        • Etherman23
          Judaism was also influenced by Zoroastrianism due to the Babylonian captivity.
          Message 4 of 6 , Sep 29, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            Judaism was also influenced by Zoroastrianism due to the Babylonian captivity.

            --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Joao S. Lopes" <josimo70@...> wrote:
            >
            > I suspect some of the Book of the Judges's tales could be reminiscences of IE Philistean/Anatolian/Mitanian mythology. There's somethoing Varunic in Joshua stopping the sun, and something Vishnu/Vidarr trait in Moses crossing Red Sea. Moses is linked to Midianites... Mitanian substratum?
            >
            >
            >
            > JS Lopes
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > De: Torsten <tgpedersen@...>
            > Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
            > Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 29 de Setembro de 2011 3:45
            > Assunto: [tied] Kings and Judges
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            > I've earlier mentioned some intriguing connections between Jewish law at the time of the Book of Judges and Germanic Law.
            >
            > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67185
            > and ff., esp.
            > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67353
            > and further
            > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67279
            >
            > Here's another fun fact: the Germanic
            > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thervingi
            > were ruled by kings *and* judges:
            >
            > http://tinyurl.com/6d7qte8
            > http://tinyurl.com/6jqx9qh
            >
            > But whether he was called scabinus/Schöffe I don't know. It is a possibility.
            >
            > Torsten
            >
          • Torsten
            ... Given the relative age of the ethnogenesis of the Jews and the Thervingi, I d expect the influence to have gone in the other direction. You don t find
            Message 5 of 6 , Sep 29, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              > >
              > > I've earlier mentioned some intriguing connections between Jewish law at the time of the Book of Judges and Germanic Law.
              > >
              > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67185
              > > and ff., esp.
              > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67353
              > > and further
              > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67279
              > >
              > > Here's another fun fact: the Germanic
              > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thervingi
              > > were ruled by kings *and* judges:
              > >
              > > http://tinyurl.com/6d7qte8
              > > http://tinyurl.com/6jqx9qh
              > >
              > > But whether he was called scabinus/Schöffe I don't know. It is a possibility.
              > >
              > > Torsten
              > >
              >


              > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Joao S. Lopes" <josimo70@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I suspect some of the Book of the Judges's tales could be reminiscences of IE Philistean/Anatolian/Mitanian mythology. There's somethoing Varunic in Joshua stopping the sun, and something Vishnu/Vidarr trait in Moses crossing Red Sea. Moses is linked to Midianites... Mitanian substratum?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > JS Lopes
              > >

              --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Etherman23" <etherman23@...> wrote:
              >
              > Judaism was also influenced by Zoroastrianism due to the Babylonian captivity.
              >

              Given the relative age of the ethnogenesis of the Jews and the Thervingi, I'd expect the influence to have gone in the other direction. You don't find judges as rulers in the contemporaneous
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greuthungi
              or the earlier Germani of the 1st century BCE under Ariovistus.


              Torsten
            • Torsten
              ... Joao doesn t mention any coincidences in Frankish and Judaic laws. You must be referring to the connections between Jewish law and Germanic law I
              Message 6 of 6 , Sep 30, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                > > >
                > > > I've earlier mentioned some intriguing connections between
                > > > Jewish law at the time of the Book of Judges and Germanic Law.
                > >
                > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67185
                > > > and ff., esp.
                > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67353
                > > > and further
                > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67279
                > > >
                > > > Here's another fun fact: the Germanic
                > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thervingi
                > > > were ruled by kings *and* judges:
                > >
                > > > http://tinyurl.com/6d7qte8
                > > > http://tinyurl.com/6jqx9qh
                > > >
                > > > But whether he was called scabinus/Schöffe I don't know. It is a
                > > > possibility.
                > > >
                > > > Torsten
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Joao S. Lopes" <josimo70@> wrote:
                > >
                > > I suspect some of the Book of the Judges's tales could be
                > > reminiscences of IE Philistean/Anatolian/Mitanian mythology.
                > > There's somethoing Varunic in Joshua stopping the sun, and
                > > something Vishnu/Vidarr trait in Moses crossing Red Sea. Moses is
                > > linked to Midianites... Mitanian substratum?
                > >
                > > JS Lopes
                > >

                --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "cafaristeir" <cafaristeir@...>
                > wrote:
                >
                > All right, Joao.
                >
                > According to J.Amsler, Samson's story was of Indo-European origin :
                > the invulnerable warrior who commits three sins before being
                > deprived of his strength and defeated. His enemies, the Philistines,
                > were possibly Indo-Europeans.

                > In my opinion, if there are coincidences in the Frenkish and the
                > Judaic laws, this was not due to a common background, but rather to
                > the fact that those Frenkish laws were written down in Latin by
                > Christian scribes who knew the Biblical precedents.
                >
                > Olivier
                > http://sambahsa.pbworks.com/


                Joao doesn't mention any coincidences in Frankish and Judaic laws. You must be referring to the connections between Jewish law and Germanic law I mentioned, here specifically the Thervinngian Gothic institution of having ruling judges along with ruling kings.

                I don't think such a fundamental institution would have been introduced by the scribes who wrote down the preexisting oral law. I find it more likely that Jews amongs the Bastarnians over mnany generations influenced the thinking behind the laws and introduced elements of Jewish law into it.


                Torsten
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.