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Re: Greek tenagos = Skt tadaga ?

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  • stlatos
    ... This alt. being covered by Skt k/ç should allow the order of changes in kY ç and ke c^a to be known (assuming there weren t many related languages
    Message 1 of 14 , May 31, 2011
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      --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" <stlatos@...> wrote:

      > The qHX / t.r. is not just needed to explain aspiration, but for those languages that show alt. kx- / ts- (see Witzel for more ex.) :
      >
      >
      > *
      > Aq'-RWuÑ'-GWÀ+
      > Aq'-RWum'-bÀ+
      > AqH-Xum-bÀ
      > AqH-Xum-bÀ uqH-XAm-bÀ
      > qHXum-bÀ qHXAm-bÀ
      > kxum-bÀ kxAm-bÀ
      > kxum-bÀ tsum-bÀ kxAm-bÀ tsAm-bÀ
      >
      > >>
      >
      >
      > kúmba- = thick end of bone/club
      > çámba- = iron head of a pestle / Indra's weapon
      > çambín- = having a pole/oar / rower / boatman S;


      This alt. being covered by Skt k/ç should allow the order of changes in kY > ç and ke > c^a to be known (assuming there weren't many related languages with major differences in s./s/s^ between them that Skt borrowed from):


      kY ke
      tY ke
      tY kYe
      tYsY kYxYe
      tYsY t^s^e
      tYsY t^s^a
      tYsY t^s^a ts kx
      tYsY t^s^a tYsY k (brd > sound sys.)
      sY t^s^a sY k
      s^ t^s^a s^ k
    • Francesco Brighenti
      ... Anyway, English tank does not seem to have been borrowed from a New Indo-Aryan reflex of Skt. taDAga- pond, pool -- see at
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 1, 2011
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        --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" <stlatos@...> wrote:

        > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Joao S. Lopes" <josimo70@> wrote:
        > >
        > > It could be just a coincidence, but Skt tadaga-m "pond, lake
        > > pool" (origin of word tank), resembles superficially Greek
        > > tenagos- "pool, lake". Any chance of a common source?

        Anyway, English "tank" does not seem to have been borrowed from a New Indo-Aryan reflex of Skt. taDAga- 'pond, pool' -- see at

        http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.1:1:1739.soas

        Rather, the New Indo-Aryan source for this Eng. word appears to be one or the other among Hindi TA~kh- 'underground reservoir of water', Gujarati TA~ku~- 'reservoir', Marathi TA~ke~-, Ta~ke~- 'reservoir, cistern', which would derive from an unattested Old Ino-Aryan lexeme *TaGka- 'artificial pond' according to R.L. Turner -- see at

        http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.1:1:1556.soas

        > Yes, they're both < PIE * d.Hen.wr. d.Hen.wn.+ 'curved/bent /
        > curved/hollow/sloping part of body / bow / tree to make bows'

        The word taDAga is Late Vedic, and is a good canditate as a Dravidian borrowing. Discussion by T. Burrow in Transactions Philol. Soc. 1945, 103 f.;

        "This word taDAga- is also of Dravidian origin, and can be compared with the following words: Tamil taTu 'to hinder, obstruct', taTakku 'obstacle, impediment', taTam 'ridge, dam, causeway; pond', taTavu 'pond; prison', taTai 'to hinder, stop; obstacle, impediment; door; bund, embankment', Malayalam taTa 'resistance', taTayuka 'to be obstructed', taTavu 'what resists, wards off; a prison', taTekka 'to stop, prevent', Kannada taDa 'check, impediment, delay', taDapu 'hindrance, impediment', taDe 'to stop, impede; a check, impediment, obstacle', Tulu taDepini 'to check, hinder, etc.', taDe 'a delay, hindrance', daDe 'an obstacle, hindrance; a screen, blind', Telugu taDa 'hindrance, obstruction, prevention', taDayu 'to delay'. Skt. taDAga- means an artificial tank or lake, and it is so called on account of the bund, dam, or embankment by which the waters are contained. The word would appear also to have this latter sense sometimes, for instance, in the compound taDAgabhedaka- [Skt. bhadaka = 'the act of breaking down'], Mn. IX, 279, where [the commentator] Kulluka uses the term setubheda- in his paraphrase [Skt. setubhedaka = 'the breaking down of an embankment (setu-)']."

        Re. Greek ténagos 'shoal, shallow water', I see it has been compared by more than one linguist to Latvian ti^gas (< *tingas-?) 'water bottom', and tentatively also to Latin stagnum 'pool, awamp' (if with s- mobile). Mallory & Adams cautiously suggest a PIE root (WC)*tenH.ag- 'shallow water'.

        Rgards,
        Francesco
      • Francesco Brighenti
        ... Sorry, it should read: [Skt. bhedaka = the act of breaking down ] FB
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 1, 2011
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          --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Francesco Brighenti" <frabrig@...> wrote:

          > [Skt. bhadaka = 'the act of breaking down']

          Sorry, it should read:

          [Skt. bhedaka = 'the act of breaking down']

          FB
        • stlatos
          ... Also, * fkYer.t.n.ó+ fkYr.t.n.ó+ = cut off/mutilated / sharp/sharp-tasting/sour PIE; * fkYer.t.n.ó+ karn.a- = short-eared S; karëna- = deaf Av; *
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 1, 2011
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            --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" <stlatos@...> wrote:


            > The qHX / t.r. is not just needed to explain aspiration, but for those languages that show alt. kx- / ts- (see Witzel for more ex.) :
            >
            >
            > *
            > Aq'-RWuÑ'-GWÀ+
            > Aq'-RWum'-bÀ+
            > AqH-Xum-bÀ
            > AqH-Xum-bÀ uqH-XAm-bÀ
            > qHXum-bÀ qHXAm-bÀ
            > kxum-bÀ kxAm-bÀ
            > kxum-bÀ tsum-bÀ kxAm-bÀ tsAm-bÀ
            >
            > >>
            >
            >
            > kúmba- = thick end of bone/club
            > çámba- = iron head of a pestle / Indra's weapon
            > çambín- = having a pole/oar / rower / boatman S;
            >


            Also,


            * fkYer.t.n.ó+ \ fkYr.t.n.ó+ = cut off/mutilated / sharp/sharp-tasting/sour PIE;


            * fkYer.t.n.ó+ > karn.a- = short-eared S; karëna- = deaf Av;
            * fkYr.t.n.ó+ > krUnU = having a mutilated ear/nose OCS;


            vs.


            * fkYer.t.n.ó+ > xW > w > uqY-weR-t.u-Ñò+ > aq'-XwaR-t*Yi-Ñà+ > aqH-Xu-wat.-r.i-n.à+ \ -r.à+ \ -d.à+ >

            khut. = short HN Bu; >>
            khút.o Sh; khut.t.a- = broken Pk; khun.d.- = break into pieces S;

            khot.a- \ khod.a- \ khora-\ khola- = limping/lame S;
            çot.ha- = lazy/idle / wicked/low / fool, çuth- = limp S;
            kat.t.a- = sour. kat.t.ana-s = dwarf, kat.t.eraka- = dwarfish S;
            kharvá- = mutilated/crippled/imperfect/dwarfish S;


            Notice that tHsH > tYHsYH > çH with met. of aspiration in khot.a- vs çot.ha- (the only other inherited tYH was in sYkY > sYkYH > ccH).


            This met. is similar to:

            gHrútsa = wild strawberries, gutsHíi = morel A;
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