Re: 'dyeus' chronology
- Dr Brighenti,
We are talking past each other. For the benefit of the group please let us know how each of the word under discussion would be pronounced, syllabically.
Because I am convinced you have no idea how these anusvar sounds are pronounced. Writing Harvard Kyoto transliterations *does not* convey how these words are pronounced.
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Francesco Brighenti" <frabrig@...> wrote:
> --- In email@example.com, "shivkhokra" <shivkhokra@> wrote:
> > Pronunciation of anusvar sound in Sanskrit word "sundhi" (meaning
> > junction)... and the Sanskrit words "sunghar or singhar"...
> > (meaning destruction) and "sunhrutra or sinhrutra"... (meaning
> > destroyer) is *identical* and the sound one would hear is an "n"
> > sound. In other words the anusvar ("the dot character in devnagari")
> > corresponds with the letter "n" in the syllabic spellings given
> > above.
> No. I am a little tired of this unproductive discussion, but yet I have to repeat here for your benefit, for the nth time, that the Devanagri diacritic mark called anusvara stands for a nasal sound pronounced in one of three ways:
> 1. at the end of a word, as m;
> 2. before the semivowels y, r, l, v, the sibilants s' s., s, and the aspirate h, as a nasalized vowel, a "pure nasal" (as in French bon);
> 3. before other consonants, as the nasal consonant of the same group (that is, as a velar, palatal, retroflex, dental, or bilabial nasal according to the consonant group the consonant following it belongs in).
> See Monier-Williams' discussion at
> Consequently, the pronunciation of the anusvAra sound in the word "saMdhi" cannot be identical -- as you falsely claim -- to that in the word "saMhAra". Guess why? Because in the former case the anusvAra, being followed by a dental consonant, represents a dental nasal, while in the latter one it, being followed by an aspirate, represents a "pure nasal" (which *approximates* as much an n-sound as an m-one, but is "identical" with neither of these!).
> Let me also note, in passing, that your unscholarly transliteration of the Sanskrit term saMhAra 'destruction' as "sunghar or singhar" once more stresses what I and other listmembers had remarked some days ago during this discussion, namely, that you tend to pronounce Sanskrit words as if they were Hindi ones. Listen here how the Hindi word sa~nhAr 'destruction' (a New-Indo Aryan derivative of Old Indo-Aryan saMhAra) is pronounced:
> Nearly identical to your "singhar", no? Yet this is not a Sansktit, but a Hindi pronunciation!
> Similarly, modern Italians pronounce Latin "Caesar" as (more or less, using your pseudo-English spelling) <chesar>, whereas the true Latin pronunciation was <kaesar>...
> However, this discussion is leading nowhere. Therefore, bye-bye for now!
Are people whispering about the quality of your reconstructions?
Do your stems split at the ends?
Do not despair! Dr. Pedersen's super-glue, the phoneme /Å/ will remedy the situation! No more embarassing same-semantics double forms!
DÎ±~Î¿Î¹, DÎ¬Î¿Î¹; sing., DÎ±~Î¿Ï, DÎ¬Î¿Ï, DÎ±Ï ~Î¿Ï, DÄvos, Davus, Daus
(also used as anthoponym), older designation of the Dacians
Strab. 7, 3, 12:
Î³ÎÎ³Î¿Î½Îµ Î´`Îµ ÎºÎ±`Î¹ `Î¬Î»Î»Î¿Ï ÏÎ·~Ï ÏÏÏÎ±Ï Î¼ÎµÏÎ¹ÏÎ¼`Î¿Ï ÏÏ Î¼Î¼ÎÎ½ÏÎ½ `ÎµÎº ÏÎ±ÂÎ»Î±Î¹Î¿Ï ~â¢ ÏÎ¿`Ï Ï Î¼`ÎµÎ½ DÎ±ÎºÎ¿`Ï Ï ÏÏÎ¿ÏÎ±Î³Î¿ÏÎµÏÎ¿Ï ÏÎ¹ ÏÎ¿`Ï Ï Î´`Îµ GÎÏÎ±Ï, GÎÏÎ±Ï Î¼`ÎµÎ½ ÏÎ¿`Ï Ï ÏÏ`Î¿Ï Ï`Î¿Î½ Î ÏÎ½ÏÎ¿Î½ ÎºÎµÎºÎ»Î¹Î¼ÎÎ½Î¿Ï Ï ÎºÎ±`Î¹ ÏÏ`Î¿Ï Ï`Î·Î½ Â´ÎÏ, DÎ±ÎºÎ¿`Ï Ï Î´`Îµ ÏÎ¿`Ï Ï Îµ`Î¹Ï Ï`Î±Î½Î±Î½ÏÎ¯Î± ÏÏ`Î¿Ï ÏÎ®Î½ GÎµÏÎ¼Î±Î½Î¯Î±Î½ ÎºÎ±`Î¹ Ï`Î±Ï ÏÎ¿Î½ `ÎÏÏÏÎ¿Ï ÏÎ·Î³Î¬Ï, Î¿Â´`Ï Ï Î¿`Î¹~Î¼Î±Î¹ DÎ¬Î¿Ï Ï ÎºÎ±Î»ÎµÎ¹~ÏÎ¸Î±Î¹ Ï`Î¿ ÏÎ±Î»Î±Î¯Î¿Î½, `Î±Ï' Î¿Â´Ï ~ ÎºÎ±`Î¹ ÏÎ±Ï`Î± ÏÎ¿Î¹~Ï `AÏÏÎ¹ÏÎ¿Î¹~Ï `ÏÎµÏÏÎ»Î±ÏÎµ Ï`Î± ÏÏ~Î½ Î¿`Î¹ÎºÎµÏÏ~Î½ `Î¿Î½ÏÎ¼Î±ÏÎ± GÎÏÎ±Î¹
[But there is also another division of the country which has endured from early times, for some of the people are called Daci, whereas others are called Getae - Getae, those who incline towards the Pontus and the east, and Daci, those who incline in the opposite direction towards Germany and the sources of the Ister. The Daci, I think, were called DaÃ¯ in early times; whence the slave names "Geta" and "DaÃ¼s"]
Steph. Byz. 216, 22; oÂ´Î¹ DÎ±~ÎºÎ¿Î¹, Î¿Â´` Ï Ï ÎºÎ±Î»Î¿Ï ~Î¼ÎµÎ½ DÎ¬Î¿Ï Ï.
Luc. salt. 29: DÎ¬ÏÎ½ ÎºÎ±`Î¹ Î¤Î¹Î²Î¯ÏÎ½ ÎºÎ±`Î¹ Î¼Î±Î³ÎµÎ¯ÏÏÎ½
Eust. comm. ad Dion. Per. 305:
Â´ÏÏÎ¹ ÏÎ¿`Ï Ï DÎ¬ÎºÎ±Ï DÎ¬Î¿Ï Ï `ÎµÎºÏÎ»Î¿Ï Î½ ÏÎ¹Î½ÎÏâ¢ ÏÎ·Ï`Î¹Î½ o`Ï ~v ÎºÎ±`Î¹ Â´o GÎµÏÎ³ÏÎ¬ÏÎ¿Ï,
Â´ÏÏÎ¹ Î¿Â´Î¹ DÎ¬ÎºÎ±Î¹ DÎ¬Î¿Î¹ ÏÎ¿ÏÎµ `ÏÎ½Î¿Î¼Î¬Î¶Î¿Î½ÏÎ¿. -
DÎ±Ï ~Î¿Ï, DÄvos as slave name in neweÂr comedy (cf. K. Gatzert,
De nova com., Dissert. GieÃen 1913, 71).
Herond. 5, 68: Â´Î· DÎ¬Î¿Ï ÏÎ¹Î¼Î®.
Anthol. Palat. 14, 123, 10: DÎ¬Î¿Ï Î´' Îµ`Î¯ÏÎ¿ÏÎ¹ Î¼Î½Î±~Ï `ÎµÏÎÏÏ.
IG 22, 8614: DÎ±Î¿Ï Â´ÎÏÎ±ÎºÎ»ÎµÏÏÎ·Ï,
8615: DÎ±Î¿Ï DÎ±Î¿Ï Â´ÎÏÎ±ÎºÎ»ÎµÏÏÎ·Ï;
42, 650 from Epidauros: Î²ÏÎ¼`Î¿Î½ Î Î±Î½Î¸ÎµÎ¯Ï, Â´Î¹ÎµÏÎµ`Ï Ï Â´Î¹Î´ÏÏÏÎ±ÏÎ¿ DÎ±Î¿Ï;
11, 2, 111 from Delos, 23; `ÎµÎ³ Î¼ÎµÏÎ¿Î¯ÎºÏÎ½ DÎ±Î¿Ï BÎ±Î»Î¬(ÎºÏÎ¿Ï );
12, 8, 177 from Samothrace, 5: DÎ±Î¿Ï (under Î¼ÏÏÏÎ±Î¹);
12, 8, 592 from Thasos: DÎ±Î¿Ï `AÏÎ¿Î»Î»Î¿ ---.
JHS 24, 1904, 33 Nr. 49 from Kyzikos:
a) DÎ¹ÏÎ´[Ï]ÏÎµ DÎ±Î¿Ï Ï[Î±]Î¹~ÏÎµ,
b) ÎÎ¼Î²Î¹Î»Îµ DÎ±Î¿Ï ÏÎ±Î¹~Ï[Îµ.
ÎÎ¡Î 4, 31 from Olbia: AÎ´Î±Î¹Î¿Ï DÎ±Î¿Ï Â´Î¹ÏÏÎµÏÏ.
6, 5866: C. Iulius Davos faber;
6, 14993: Ti. Claudio Dao;
6, 19221: Davos;
6, 25170 a: P. Publio Dao;
6, 25650: Dav[os];
6, 27489: Q. Titi Q. 1 Davi;
6, 33555: Daus Caesaris (servus);
6, 35612: C. Aufidio C. 1. Davo coniugi;
10, 4016 from Capua: M. Antonio Davi;
11, 3885 from Capena: d. m. Ti. Claudi Aug. l. Dai;
14, 2877 from Praeneste: Davos Calidus.
Not. Scav. 1904, 438 from Rom: T. Precilius T. O. l. Davos.
Cod. Iust. 9, 35, 2 (anno 230): Imp. Alex. A. Davo.
Acc. to Hdt. 1, 125 a nomad people in mid-Iran call themselves DÎ¬Î¿Î¹.
DÎ¬Î¿Ï, DÎ±~Î¿Ï as anthroponym occurs frequently in the parts of Asia Minor not belongiung to Bithynia, esp. in Phrygia, where it appears also as theonym (cf.
Kretschmer Einl. 202;
Ramsay JHS 38, 1918, 168;
Sundwall LN 65).
There is further the Phrygian appellative
Î´Î¬Î¿Ïâ¢ Â´Ï Ï`Î¿ Î¦ÏÏ Î³Ï~Î½ Î»ÏÎºÎ¿Ï Hesych.,
which by Kretschmer Einl. 211 is joined with OBg. daviti "strangle" from the root dhaw-. Davus as anthroponym occurs also in the Celtic language area (cf. Holder AC 1, 1245).
Worth considering is the attempt of WT. Thr. II 2, 29, to derive DÄvos from the root dhe:- "colloÂcare, ponere" and consequently interpret it as "settler, farmer".
DÎ±ÎºÎ¿Î¯, DÎ±~ÎºÎ¿Î¹, DÎ¬ÎºÎ±Î¹, DÎ±~ÎºÎ±Î¹, DÎ¬ÎºÎµÏ, Daci, Dacisci, Dagae,
(sing. DÎ±~ÎºÎ¿Ï, DÎ¬Î¾, Dacus, Daqus, Daciscus, Daeisqus)
stem known from the 2nd cent. BCE (by the Greek often confused with the GÎÏÎ±Î¹);
DÎ±ÎºÎ¯Î±, Dacia their country (between Dniestr, the Carpathians and the Danube). -
7, 3, 12:
Î³ÎÎ³Î¿Î½Îµ Î´Îµ ÎºÎ±`Î¹ `Î¬Î»Î»Î¿Ï ÏÎ·~Ï ÏÏÏÎ±Ï Î¼ÎµÏÎ¹ÏÎ¼ÏÏ ÏÏ Î¼Î¼ÎÎ½ÏÎ½ `ÎµÎº ÏÎ±Î»Î±Î¹Î¿Ï ~â¢ ÏÎ¿`Ï Ï Î¼`ÎµÎ½ Î³`Î±Ï DÎ±ÎºÎ¿`Ï Ï ÏÏÎ¿ÏÎ±Î³Î¿ÏÎµÏÎ¿Ï ÏÎ¹ ÏÎ¿Ï Ï Î´`Îµ GÎÏÎ±Ï, GÎÏÎ±Ï Î¼`ÎµÎ½ ÏÎ¿`Ï Ï ÏÏÎ¿Ï Ï`Î¿Î½ Î ÏÎ½ÏÎ¿Î½ ÎºÎµÎºÎ¹Î¼ÎÂÎ½Î¿Ï Ï ÎºÎ±`Î¹ ÏÏ`Î¿Ï Ï`Î·Î½ Â´ÎÏ, DÎ±ÏÎ¿ÏÏ Î´`Îµ ÏÎ¿`Ï Ï Îµ`Î¹Ï Ï`Î±Î½Î±Î½ÏÎ¯Î± ÏÏ`Î¿Ï Ï`Î·Î½ GÎµÏÎ¼Î±Î½Î¯Î±Î½ ÎºÎ±`Î¹ Ï`Î±Ï ÏÎ¿Ï ~ `ÎÏÏÏÎ¿Ï ÏÎ·Î³Î¬Ï, Î¿Â´`Ï Ï Î¿`Î¹~Î¼Î±Î¹ DÎ¬Î¿Ï Ï ÎºÎ±Î»ÎµÎ¹~ÏÎ¸Î±Î¹ Ï`Î¿ ÏÎ±Î»Î±Î¹ÏÎ½
(acc. to which the Dacians are descendants of the Daoi):
[But there is also another division of the country which has endured from early times, for some of the people are called Daci, whereas others are called Getae - Getae, those who incline towards the Pontus and the east, and Daci, those who incline in the opposite direction towards Germany and the sources of the Ister.]
7, 3, 13: Â´Î¿Î¼ÏÂÎ³Î»ÏÏÏÎ¿Î¹ Î´' Îµ`Î¹Ï`Î¹Î½ Î¿Â´Î¹ DÎ±ÎºÎ¿`Î¹ ÏÎ¿Î¹~Ï GÎÏÎ±Î¹Ï.
[The language of the Daci is the same as that of the Getae]
ÏÎ±Ï ~ÏÎ¬ ÏÎµ Î¿`Ï ~Î½ ÎµÏÎ®ÏÎ¸Î·, ÎºÎ±`Î¹ `Î±Î¸ÏÏÎ¿Î¹ ÏÏ`Î¿Ï Î±Î»Î»Î®Î»Î¿Ï Ï DÎ±ÎºÎ¿Î¹ ÏÎµ ÎºÎ±`Î¹ Î£Î¿Ï Î·~Î²Î¿Î¹ `ÎµÎ¼Î±ÏÎÏÎ±Î½ÏÎ¿. Îµ`Î¹Ï`Î¹ Î´Îµ Î¿Â´Ï ~ÏÎ¿Î¹ Î¼`ÎµÎ½ ÎÎµÎ»ÏÎ¿Î¯, `ÎµÎºÎµÎ¹~Î½Î¿Î¹ Î´Îµ Î´`Î· Î£ÎºÏÎ¸Î±Î¹ ÏÏÏÏÎ¿Î½ ÏÎ¹Î½Î¬. ÎºÎ±`Î¹ Â´Î¿Î¹ Î¼ÎµÎ½ ÏÎÏÎ±Î½ ÏÎ¿Ï ~ Â´Î¡Î®Î½Î¿Ï Â´ÏÏ Î³Îµ Ï`Î±ÎºÏÎ¹Î²`ÎµÏ Îµ`Î¹ÏÎµÎ¹~Î½, --- Î¿Â´Î¹ Î´`Îµ `ÎµÏ' `Î±Î¼ÏÏÏÎµÏÎ± ÏÎ¿Î½ ÎÏÏÏÎ¿Ï Î½ÎÎ¼Î¿Î½ÏÎ±Î¹, `Î±Î»Î»' Î¿Â´Î¹ Î¼`ÎµÎ½ `ÎµÏ`Î¹ ÏÎ¬Î´Îµ Î±`Ï ÏÎ¿Ï ~ ÎºÎ±`Î¹ ÏÏ`Î¿Ï ÏÎ·,~ Î¤ÏÎ¹Î²Î±Î»Î»Î¹ÎºÎ·,~ Î¿`Î¹ÎºÎ¿Ï ~Î½ÏÎµÏ `ÎÏ ÏÎµ Ï`Î¿Î½ ÏÎ·~Ï ÎÏ ÏÎ¯Î±Ï Î½Î¿Î¼`Î¿Î½ ÏÎµÎ»Î¿Ï ~ÏÎ¹ ÎºÎ±`Î¹ ÎÏ ÏÎ¿Î¯, ÏÎ»`Î·Î½ ÏÎ±Ï`Î± ÏÎ¿Î¹Ï ÏÎ¬Î½Ï ~` ÎµÏÎ¹ÏÏÏÎ¯Î¿Î¹Ï, `Î¿Î½Î¿Î¼Î¬Î¶Î¿Î½ÏÎ±Î¹, Î¿Â´Î¹ Î´Îµ `ÎµÏÎÎºÎµÎ¹Î½Î± DÎ±ÎºÎ¿`Î¹ ÎºÎÎºÎ»Î·Î½ÏÎ±Î¹, Îµ`Î¯ÏÎµ Î´`Î· GÎÏÎ±Î¹ ÏÎ¹Î½ÎÏ Îµ`Î¯ÏÎµ ÎºÎ±`Î¹ ÎÏÎ±,~ÎºÎµÏ ÏÎ¿Ï ~ DÎ±ÎºÎ¹ÎºÎ¿Ï ~ Î³ÎÎ½Î¿Ï Ï ÏÎ¿Ï ~ Ï`Î·Î½ Â´Î¡Î¿Î´ÏÏÎ·Î½ ÏÎ¿Ï`Îµ `ÎµÎ½Î¿Î¹ÎºÎ®ÏÎ±Î½ÏÎ¿Ï `ÏÎ½ÏÎµÏ
[These beasts, accordingly, were brought in, and moreover Dacians and Suebi fought in crowds with one another. The latter are Germans, the former Scythians of a sort. The Suebi, to be exact, dwell beyond the Rhine (though many people elsewhere claim their name), and the Dacians on both sides of the Ister; those of the latter, however, who live on this side of the river near the country of the Triballi are reckoned in with the district of Moesia and are called Moesians, except by those living in the immediate neighbourhood, while those on the other side are called Dacians and are either a branch of the Getae are Thracians belonging to the Dacian race that once inhabited Rhodope. ]
(Here Dio, as noted in WT. Thr. I 71 and 101, had in mind the DÎ¹~Î¿Î¹ and the DÎ¹Î±ÎºÏÎ½ Î³ÎÎ½Î¿Ï in Thuc. 7, 27, 1, changing without further ado the latter to DÎ±ÎºÎ¹ÎºÏÎ½ Î³ÎÎ½Î¿Ï, although he wanted to make the DÎ¹~Î¿Î¹ the ancestors of the Dacians);
DÎ±ÎºÎ¿`Ï Ï Î´`Îµ Î±`Ï ÏÎ¿`Ï Ï ÏÏÎ¿ÏÎ±Î³Î¿ÏÎµÏÏ, Â´ÏÏÏÎµÏ ÏÎ¿Ï ÎºÎ±`Î¹ Î±`Ï ÏÎ¿`Î¹ Â´ÎµÎ±Ï ÏÎ¿`Ï Ï ÎºÎ±`Î¹ Â´Î¡ÏÎ¼Î±Î¹~Î¿Î¯ ÏÏÎ±Ï `Î¿Î½Î¿Î¼Î¬Î¶Î¿Ï ÏÎ¹Î½, Î¿`Ï Îº `Î±Î³Î½Î¿Ï~Î½ Â´ÏÏÎ¹ Â´ÎÎ»Î»Î®Î½ÏÎ½ ÏÎ¹Î½`ÎµÏ GÎÏÎ±Ï Î±`Ï ÏÎ¿`Ï Ï Î»ÎÎ³Î¿Ï ÏÎ¹Î½, Îµ`Î¹Ï' Î¿ÏÎ¸Ï~Ï Îµ`Î¯ÏÎµ ÎºÎ±`Î¹ Î¼`Î· Î»ÎÎ³Î¿Î½ÏÎµÏâ¢ `ÎµÎ³`Ï Î³`Î±Ï Î¿`Î¹~Î´Î± GÎÏÎ±Ï ÏÎ¿`Ï Ï Â´Ï ÏÎÏ ÏÎ¿Ï ~ AÂ´Î¯Î¼Î¿Ï ÏÎ±Ï`Î± Ï`Î¿Î½ `ÎÏÏÏÎ¿Î½ Î¿`Î¹ÎºÎ¿Ï ~Î½ÏÎ±Ï.
[I call the people Dacians, the names used by the natives themselves as well as by the Romans, though I am not ignorant that some Greek writers refer to them as Getae, whether that is the right form or not; for the Getae of whom I myself know are those that live beyond the Haemus range, along the Ister.]
Monum. Ancyr. 5, 48 - 49:
Î¼ÎµÏÎ±ÏÎ¸`ÎµÎ½ Ï`Î¿ `ÎµÎ¼`Î¿Î½ ÏÏÏÎ¬ÏÎµÏ Î¼Î± ÏÎÏÎ±Î½ `ÎÏÏÏÎ¿Î½ Ï`Î± DÎ¬ÎºÏÎ½ `ÎÎ¸Î½Î· ÏÏÎ¿ÏÏÎ¬Î³Î¼Î±ÏÎ± Î´Î®Î¼Î¿Ï Â´Î¡ÏÎ¼Î±Î¯ÏÎ½ Â´Ï ÏÎ¿Î¼ÎÎ½ÎµÎ¹Î½ `Î·Î½Î¬Î³ÏÎ±ÏÎµÎ½.
[my own army was led across the Danube and compelled the tribes of the Dacians to submit to the orders of the Roman people.]
DiÎ¿n. Per. 305: DÎ±ÎºÏ~Î½ `Î¬ÏÏÎµÏÎ¿Ï Î±`Î¹~Î±.
Stud. 20 Nr. 139 (531 CE), 2:
Î¦Î»Î±ÏÎ¹Î¿Ï ÎÎ·Î½Î±~Ï Â´Î¿ ÎºÎ±`Î¹ GÎµ[ÏÏÎ³]Î¹Î¿Ï ÏÏÏÎ±[ÏÎ¹Ï]ÏÎ·Ï Î¬Ï[Î¹Î¸Î¼]Î¿Ï ~ ÏÏ~Î½
Steph. Byz. 216, 22: Î¿Â´Î¹ DÎ±~ÎºÎ¿Î¹, Î¿Â´` Ï Ï ÎºÎ±Î»Î¿Ï ~Î¼ÎµÎ½ DÎ¬Î¿Ï Ï.
Appian. Illyr. 23:
Â´Ï Î´`Îµ (= Â´Î¿ ÎÎ±Î¹~ÏÎ±Ï), ÏÏÎ¿Ï Ï`Î±Î½ `ÎµÏÎ±Î³Î±Î³ÎµÎ¹~Î½ `ÎÏÎ· ÎºÎ±`Î¹ Â´Î¿Î¼Î®ÏÎ¿Ï Ï Â´ÎµÎºÎ±Ï`Î¿Î½ Î»Î±Î²ÎµÎ¹~Î½, Â´Î¯Î½' `Î±ÏÏÎ±Î»Ï~Ï ÏÎ±Î¼Î¹ÎµÎ¯Ï, ÏÎ·,~ ÏÏÎ»ÎµÎ¹ (=
Î£ÎµÎ³ÎÏÏÎ·,) ÏÏÏ,~ÏÎ¿ `ÎµÏ`Î¹ DÎ±~ÎºÎ±Ï.
Proc. bell. 5, 15, 27: ÏÎ¿ÏÏÏÎ½ (== ÎÎ¿ÏÎ¹ÎºÏ~Î½) Î´`Îµ DÎ±~ÎºÎ±Î¯ ÏÎµ ÎºÎ±`Î¹ Î Î±Î½Î½ÏÎ½ÎµÏ `ÎµÎ½ Î´ÎµÎ¾Î¹Î±,~ Î¿`Î¹ÎºÎ¿Ï ~ÏÎ¹Î½.
Eust. comm. ad Dion. Per. 305 Â´ÏÏÎ¹ ÏÎ¿`Ï Ï DÎ¬ÏÎ±Ï DÎ¬Î¿Ï Ï `ÎµÎºÎ¬Î»Î¿Ï Î½ ÏÎ¹Î½ÎÏ. ÏÎ·Ï`Î¹Î½ Î¿`Ï ~Î½ ÎºÎ±`Î¹ Â´Î¿ GÎµÏÎ³ÏÎ¬ÏÎ¿Ï, ÏÏÎ¹ Î¿Â´Î¹ DÎ¬ÎºÎ±Î¹ DÎ¬Î¿Î¹ ÏÎ¿Ï`Îµ `ÏÎ½Î¿Î¼Î¬Î¶Î¿Î½ÏÎ¿.
Cecaum. Strat. 74 (ed. WassiÂlewsky and Jernstedt, Petrop. 1896): Î¿Â´Î¹
Î»ÎµÎ³ÏÎ¼ÎµÎ½Î¿Î¹ DÎ±~ÎºÎ±Î¹ ÎºÎ±`Î¹ BÎÏÎ¿Î¹ (as ancestors of the Vlachs).
Suid.: DÎ¬ÎºÎµÏâ¢ Â´Î¿Î¹ Î½Ï ~Î½ Î Î±ÏÎ¶Î¹Î½Î±ÎºÎ¯ÏÎ±Î¹ Î»ÎµÎ³ÏÎ¼ÎµÎ½Î¿Î¹â¢ Â´Î· Îµ`Ï Î¸ÎµÎ¹~Î± DÎ¬ÎºÎ¿Ï.
Caes. bell. Gall 6, 25, 2: ... Hercynia silva ... perÂtinet ad fines Dacorum et Anartium.
Plin. NH4, 80: alias Getae, Daci Romanis dicti, --- montes vero et saltus (inter Danuvium atque Hercynium saltum) pulsi ab iis (= Iazygibus) Daci ad Pathissum amnem;
7, 50: quarto partu Dacorum originis nota in bracchia reddita:
22, 2: maresque etiam apud Dacos et Sarmatas corpora sua inscribunt.
Pomp. Trog. hist. 32, 3, 16: Daci quoque suboles Getarum sunt.
Monum. Ancyr. 5, 48 - 49: trans Danuvium ex[erÂcitus me]us ductus Da[cor]um im[perio populi Romani perferre coegit].
[my own army was led across the Danube and compelled the tribes of the Dacians to submit to the orders of the Roman people]
Hor. carm. 3, 8, 18: DÄci Cotisonis agmen;
serm. 2, 6, 53: numquid de DÄcis audisti?
TP 8, 4: Dagae (d. h. Dacae, wie Sagae TP 12, 1/2 statt Sacae).
Iord. Rom. 217: Daces. -
Herodian. 1, 147, 27 (Lentz): DÎ±~ÎºÎ¿Ï `ÎÎ¸Î½Î¿Ï, Â´`Î¿ ÎºÎ±`Î¹ DÎ±~Î¿Ï ÎºÎ±Î»ÎµÎ¹~ÏÎ±Î¹.
Lascar. Gramm. bei Lobeck. Par. 96: DÎ¬Î¾.
Hor. carm. 1, 35, 9: DÄcus asper.
3, 1435515 from Sopron: Sassa coniun[x] et conliberta nat(ione) Daca:
6, 1801: d. m. Ziai Tiati fil. Dacae uxori Piepori regis Coisstobocensis;
6, 2495: Iul(ius) Secundinus e. v. k. coh. III pr. Salarior. XXVII --- nat. Dacus;
6,3227: Aurel(io) Primo liberto nat(ione) Dacus;
6, 7407: Dacus insularius;
16903: dis manibus Diuppaneus qui Euprepes Sterissae f. Dacus;
8, 8562 from Mauretanien: FortuÂnatus qui et Dacus;
10, 4030 from Capua: C. Auli, C. C. l., Daci o. h. s. s.;
11, 28 from Ravenna: Q. Decimus Dacus;
11, 6695105 from Regium: Cl(audius) Dac(us);
3, 14644 from Dalmatien: Amabilis secutor nat(ione) Dacus pug(narum);
14, 3564 from Tibur: P. Aquillius, P. l., Dacus;
16, Dipl. 13 (anno 71) from DÄlgodÄlci, Bez. Lomiu 17: Tutio Buti f., Dacus.
RLO 16, 1926, 44 from Carnuntum: PereÂgrinus Q. Asini ser. sutor caligarius natione Dacus.
CIL 6, 3236: d. m. Aurelius Victorinus eques sing. d. n. --- natione Daqus domum coloni (sic) Zermiegete (sic).
6, 2605: Aur. Victo[r]ino mil. coh. VI pr. natione Dacisca, regione
Script. hist. Aug. 26, 38, 4: septem milibus Daciscorum interremptis;
N. D. or. 40, 21: milites Dacisci.
3, 7573 from vallum Traiani in DobrudÅ¾a: Pia et Daciscus fratres;
5, 1047 from Aquileia: d. m. M. Secundi Genialis domo Cl. Agrip. negotiat. Dacisco patr. optimo;
5, 6244 from Mediolanum: Dacisqus Iustus;
6, 3320: [natione D]aciscu[s].
Dacia 7 - 8, 1937 - 1940, 353 from Drobeta: Iul(ius) Daciscus. -
Dio 68, 14: ÎºÎ±`Î¹ Î¿Â´ÏÏÏÏ Â´Î® DÎ±ÎºÎ¯Î± Â´Î¡ÏÎ¼Î±Î¯ÏÎ½ Â´Ï ÏÎ®ÎºÎ¿Î¿Ï `ÎµÎ³ÎÎ½ÎµÏÎ¿.
Ptol. 3, 5, 6: Â´Î¿ Î¼`ÎµÎ½ Î¤ÏÏÎ±Ï ÏÎ¿ÏÎ±Î¼ÏÏ Î±`Ï Ï`Î¿Ï Â´Î¿ÏÎ¯Î¶ÎµÎ¹ Ï`Î± Î¼ÎÏÎ· ÏÎ·~Ï DÎ±ÎºÎ¯Î±Ï ÎºÎ±`Î¹ ÏÎ·~Ï Î£Î±ÏÎ¼Î±ÏÎ¯Î±Ï.
Steph. Byz. 216, 22: DÎ±ÎºÎ¯Î±, ÏÏÏÎ± ÏÎ»Î·ÏÎ¯Î¿Î½ BÎ¿ÏÏ ÏÎ¸ÎÎ½Î¿Ï Ï.
IGRP 4, 47 from Lesbos: Î .
`AÎ¯Î»Î¹Î¿Ï `AÏÏÎ¹Î±Î½`Î¿Ï `AÎ»ÎÎ¾Î±Î½Î´ÏÎ¿Ï, Î²Î¿Ï Î»ÎµÏ [Ï`Î·Ï] DÎ±ÎºÎ¯Î±Ï ÎºÎ¿Î»ÏÎ½ÎµÎ¯Î±Ï ÎÎµÏÎ¼Î¹Î¶ÎµÎ³[Îµ]Î¸Î¿Ï ÂÏÎ·Ï.
Hierocl. 654, 2: ÎµÏÎ±ÏÏÎ¯Î± DÎ±ÎºÎ¯Î±Ï Î¼ÎµÏÎ¿Î³ÎµÎ¯Î¿Ï .
Constant. Porphyrog. de them. (Bonn.) 56, 5:
ÎµÏÎ±ÏÏÎ¯Î± DÎ±ÎºÎ¯Î±Ï Î¼ÎµÏÎ¿Î³Î±Î¯Î¿Ï .
Amm. Marc. 22, Î, 3: inter terminos Daciae.
16, Dipl. 68 (anno 120) from Porolissum: [in Da]cia supe[riore];
16, Dipl. 75 (anno 129) from Little Walachia, 7: in Dacia i<n>feriore.
3, 980 from Alba Iulia: tabularius provinc(iae) [Da]ciae Apulensis;
3, 1153 from Apulum: L. Aemil. Car[u]s leg. Au[g]. pr. pr. III Daciarum;
3, 6054 from Ancyra: proc(uratori) Daciae Porolisensis;
3, 13704 from Saloniki: pra[e]sidem prov. Daci[ae] Malvensis.
Script. hist. Aug. 26, 3, 1: Aurelianus ortus, ut plures loquuntur Sirmii, ut nonnulli Dacia ripensi.
N. D. or.
1, 55: Dacia ripensis;
1, 77: Dacia mediterranea.
Cf. Dacia as anthroponym in CIL
3, 2967b from Dalmatia: Fermus tribunus et --- Dacia coniuge eius;
5, 3647 from Verona: (dat.) Iuliae Daciae;
6, 28848a: Vibia Dacia mater;
10, 1316 from Nola: (dat.) Noniae Dac(iae).
Kretschmer Einl. 214 is of the opinion that DÄci is related to DÎ±~Î¿Î¹ in the same manner as Graeci to GÏÎ±Î¹~Î¿Î¹. He concludes from that that the change of name perhaps has to do with the national uprising of the people, in which also other tribes as the Daoi may have joined in the nation which now together with these was designated as the Daic.
DÎ¿ÎºÎ¯Î´Î±Ï Î± Stadt in the northwestern parts of Dacia, Ptol. 3, 8, 4.
In DÎ¿ÎºÎ¹- we find the anthoponym *DÎ¿ÎºÎ¹Ï. Cf. the Celtic anthropnyms Doci-rex, Docius, Holder AC 1, 1298-1299, and DÎ¿ÎºÎ¹ on a Edonic-Bisalt. coin, Head HN 200
-Î´Î¿ÎºÎ¿Ï, -docus, -Î´Î¿ÎºÎ±Ï, -doce, -Î´Î¿ÎºÎ·Ï, DÎ¿ÎºÎ¹-, -Î´Î¿ÏÎ¿Ï,
-dochus, -Î´Î±ÎºÎ¿Ï, -Î¸Î±ÎºÎ¿Ï, -ÏÎ¿ÎºÎ¿Ï, -ÏÎ¿ÎºÎ·Ï, -ÏÏ ÏÎ¿Ï,
-ÏÎ±Î³Î¿Ï, -ÏÎ±ÎºÎ¿Ï, -tacus, -ticus
AÎ¼Î±-Î´Î¿ÎºÎ¿Ï, Ama-docus, Ama-dochus, AÎ¼Î±-ÏÎ¿ÎºÎ¿Ï, AÎ¼Î·-Î´Î¿ÎºÎ¿Ï,
AÎ¼Î¼Î±ÂÎ´Î¿ÎºÎ¿Ï, AÎ¼Î¼Î¿-Î´Î¿ÏÎ¿Ï, DÎ¿ÎºÎ¯-Î´Î±Î½Î±, ÎÎ±Î²Î±-Î´Î¿ÎºÎ¿Ï,
ÎÎ±Î²Î±-ÏÎ¿ÎºÎ¿Ï, ÎÎ±-Î´Î±ÏÎ¿Ï, Ma~doce, ÎÎ±-Î´Î¿ÏÎ¿Ï, Ma-docus,
ÎÎµ-Î¸Î±ÏÎ¿Ï, ÎÎµ-ÏÎ±ÏÎ¿Ï, ÎÎµ-ÏÎ¿ÏÎ¿Ï, ÎÎ·-Î´Î¿ÎºÎ·Ï,
ÎÎ·-Î´Î¿ÎºÎ¿Ï, ÎÎ·-Î¸Î±ÎºÎ¿Ï, ÎÎ·-ÏÎ±Î³Î¿Ï, ÎÎ·-ÏÎ±ÎºÎ¿Ï,
ÎÎ·-ÏÎ¿ÎºÎ¿Ï, ÎÎ¹Ï-ÏÎ¿ÎºÎ¿Ï, Î Î±Ï-Î´Î¿ÎºÎ±Ï, Î£Î±ÏÎ±-ÏÎ¿ÎºÎ¿Ï,
Î£ÎºÎ¿Ï-ÏÎ¿ÎºÎ·Ï, Î£ÎºÏ Î¸Î¿-Î´Î¿ÎºÎ¿Ï, Î£ÏÎ±ÏÎ±ÂÎ´Î¿ÏÎ¿Ï,
Î£ÏÎ±Ï-ÏÎ±ÎºÎ¿Ï, Spar-tacus, Spar-ticus, Î£ÏÎ±Ï-ÏÎ¿ÎºÎ¿Ï,
Î£ÏÎ±Ï-ÏÏ ÏÎ¿Ï, Î£ÏÎ¿Ï-Î´Î¿ÎºÎ¿Ï.
Cf. the Greek PN on -Î´Î¿ÏÎ¿Ï, -Î´Î¿ÏÎ¿Ï in Bechtel PN 139 and the Celtic anthroponym Docilus, Docius, Doci-rex etc in Holder AC 1, 1298-1299. From the PIE root dek`-, dok`- with depalatalization of the gutturals, which we encounter also in DÎ¿ÎºÎ¯Î¼Î±Î¹Î¿Î½, city in PhryÂgia, Ptol. 5, 2, 24 and in their eponymous hero DÏÎºÎ¹Î¼Î¿Ï, Head HN 672.'
(I'm not decided on whether I'll use a vowel plus Å (-VÅ-) or a nasalized vowel (-VN-) in the recontructions)
*daÅ-/*daN- > *daw-
*daÅ-/*daN- > *daNk- > *dak-
*daÅ-/*daN- + -sk- > dansk
(*daÅ-iskÂ´- > *duÅIskÂ´- > Pol. duÅsk-)
(*daÅ-yan-> *daNk-yan- > *daÄan-)
*sweÅ-/*sweN- > *swew-
*sweÅ-/*sweN- > *sweNk- > *swek- (Sueci)
*sweÅ-/*sweN- + -sk- > *svensk
*graÅ-/*graN- > *graw- > *grai, grae
*graÅ-/*graN- > *graÅk- > *graek-
(the Old Albanian referred to here would be Dacian; note that the diagnostic suffixed definite article is also a feature of of North Germanic minus Vestjysk and would be just as indicative of a Dacian substrate, cf the thread starting in
(note all the *sven- side forms)
(cf. Kretschmer above)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeks#Names (see Greeks)
The choices of Dak- Graek- over Dai-, Grae- as reflects of *daÅ-, *graÅ- seem to have taken place at about the same time.
which BTW vindicates (I think) my derivation of crassus, grossus etc
as a participle *gr-Ã¡Å- "grown old, ripe, juicy". What verbs *d-Ã¡Å-,
*sw-Ã©Å could be participles of is difficult to know. Words so short are suspect of being back formations from compounds, in casu
1) from the *-daÅ occurring in the Dacian towns in -dava (the town name then being the name of its people)
and in the various -danes mentioned in Beowulf (Spear-danes, East-danes, West-danes etc),
*-daÅ being ultimately cognate to Celtic dun-, Germanic *tun-?),
2) and from the *-sweÅ (swain) occuring in eg boatswain (used much more in eg. Danish, cf. eg. 'svend' "master craftsman"
corresponding to the German term 'Geselle'
used in compounds: slagtersvend, murersvend, bagersvend etc
All this adds up to Dacians (Free Dacians?)
making up part of either the 10 BCE or 250 CE (BrÃ¸ndsted, as emended by me) invasion of Denmark, see quote here:
The main difference between Thracians and Dacians would be that the former slave-traded the latter. If so, the Burebista
regime, made possible by the discovery of gold(?)
or by reserving gold for the king's use alone(?)
would have been an economic disaster to Thracian slave-traders.
'Now that I have traversed the regions of Old Italy as far as Metapontium, I must speak of those that border on them. And Iapygia borders on them. The Greeks call it Messapia, also, but the natives, dividing it into two parts, call one part (that about the Iapygian Cape) the country of the Salentini, and the other the country of the Calabri. Above these latter, on the north, are the Peucetii and also those people who in the Greek language are called Daunii, but the natives give the name Apulia to the whole country that comes after that of the Calabri, though some of them, particularly the Peucetii, are called Poedicli also. Messapia forms a sort of peninsula, since it is enclosed by the isthmus that extends from Brentesium as far as Taras, three hundred and ten stadia.'
then the Daunii (Dauoi?) may have spoken Old
'Travellers in the 19th century were unanimous in identifying Plaka as a heavily "Albanian" quarter of Athens.
John Cam Hobhouse, writing in 1810, quoted in
John Freely, Strolling through Athens, p. 247:
"The number of houses in Athens is supposed to be between twelve and thirteen hundred; of which about four hundred are inhabited by the Turks, the remainder by the Greeks and Albanians, the latter of whom occupy above three hundred houses."
Eyre Evans Crowe, The Greek and the Turk; or, Powers and prospects in the Levant, 1853:
"The cultivators of the plain live at the foot of the Acropolis, occupying what is called the Albanian quarter..." (p. 99);
Edmond About, Greece and the Greeks of the Present Day, Edinburgh, 1855 (translation of La GrÃ¨ce contemporaine, 1854):
"Athens, twenty-five years ago, was only an Albanian village. The Albanians formed, and still form, almost the whole of the population of Attica; and within three leagues of the capital, villages are to be found where Greek is hardly understood."
"The Albanians form about one-fourth of the population of the country; they are in majority in Attica, in Arcadia, and in Hydra...."
"The Turkish [sic] village which formerly clustered round the base of the Acropolis has not disappeared: it forms a whole quarter of the town.... An immense majority of the population of this quarter is composed of Albanians." (p. 160)'
Another interpretation of this story is that these 'Albanians' were the descendants of slaves of the Greek (cf. the name 'Daus' above).