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Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

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  • Brian M. Scott
    At 6:44:26 PM on Tuesday, November 30, 2010, Ton Sales ... In other words, *isn t* attested; it s inferred, from such forms as 688, 697,
    Message 1 of 18 , Nov 30, 2010
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      At 6:44:26 PM on Tuesday, November 30, 2010, Ton Sales
      wrote:

      > Responding to Brian and João:

      > Germanic Wigamera (soon contracted into Wigmera) appears
      > as "Latin" Vimaranus in Historia compostelana (1586).

      In other words, <Wigmera(n)> *isn't* attested; it's
      inferred, from such forms as <Wimar> 688, 697, <Vimara> 841,
      <(Lucidii) Vimarani> 870, <Uimaran> 925, <Guimar> 980,
      <Guimara> 829, and many others noted in Piel & Kremer.
      While I think it likely that it is from some dithematic name
      in *wi:g-, this seems to be less than certain.

      Brian
    • Joao S. Lopes
      Gothic mera Para: Ton Sales
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 1, 2010
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        Gothic mera < *mae:ran ? What is it meaning?

        JS Lopes



        De: Brian M. Scott <bm.brian@...>
        Para: Ton Sales <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
        Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 1 de Dezembro de 2010 1:11:36
        Assunto: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

         

        At 6:44:26 PM on Tuesday, November 30, 2010, Ton Sales
        wrote:

        > Responding to Brian and João:

        > Germanic Wigamera (soon contracted into Wigmera) appears
        > as "Latin" Vimaranus in Historia compostelana (1586).

        In other words, <Wigmera(n)> *isn't* attested; it's
        inferred, from such forms as <Wimar> 688, 697, <Vimara> 841,
        <(Lucidii) Vimarani> 870, <Uimaran> 925, <Guimar> 980,
        <Guimara> 829, and many others noted in Piel & Kremer.
        While I think it likely that it is from some dithematic name
        in *wi:g-, this seems to be less than certain.

        Brian


         
      • Rick McCallister
        ________________________________ From: Brian M. Scott To: Ton Sales Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 10:11:36 PM
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 1, 2010
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          From: Brian M. Scott <bm.brian@...>
          To: Ton Sales <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 10:11:36 PM
          Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

           

          At 6:44:26 PM on Tuesday, November 30, 2010, Ton Sales
          wrote:

          > Responding to Brian and João:

          > Germanic Wigamera (soon contracted into Wigmera) appears
          > as "Latin" Vimaranus in Historia compostelana (1586).

          In other words, <Wigmera(n)> *isn't* attested; it's
          inferred, from such forms as <Wimar> 688, 697, <Vimara> 841,
          <(Lucidii) Vimarani> 870, <Uimaran> 925, <Guimar> 980,
          <Guimara> 829, and many others noted in Piel & Kremer.
          While I think it likely that it is from some dithematic name
          in *wi:g-, this seems to be less than certain.

          Brian

          Given the Portuguese form, it has to be *Wi(g)maranis, *Wi(g)maranes with intervocalic /n/. The only other possibility would be a scribal error leading to *Wi(g)maralis, *Wi(g)marales. 

          There is a Medieval Ibero-Romance form Guiomar, that occasionally crops up as a name in Spanish and Portuguese --but the spelling on this one may suggest *Wilmar (because of Portuguese /l/ > /w/ --although I don't know when that kicked in)


        • Joao S. Lopes
          Guiomar is a female name (variation: Guimar), it s still used, but it s very rare. JS Lopes ________________________________ De: Rick McCallister
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 1, 2010
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            Guiomar is a female name (variation: Guimar), it's still used, but it's very rare.

            JS Lopes



            De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
            Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
            Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 1 de Dezembro de 2010 15:05:02
            Assunto: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

             




            From: Brian M. Scott <bm.brian@...>
            To: Ton Sales <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 10:11:36 PM
            Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

             

            At 6:44:26 PM on Tuesday, November 30, 2010, Ton Sales
            wrote:

            > Responding to Brian and João:

            > Germanic Wigamera (soon contracted into Wigmera) appears
            > as "Latin" Vimaranus in Historia compostelana (1586).

            In other words, <Wigmera(n)> *isn't* attested; it's
            inferred, from such forms as <Wimar> 688, 697, <Vimara> 841,
            <(Lucidii) Vimarani> 870, <Uimaran> 925, <Guimar> 980,
            <Guimara> 829, and many others noted in Piel & Kremer.
            While I think it likely that it is from some dithematic name
            in *wi:g-, this seems to be less than certain.

            Brian

            Given the Portuguese form, it has to be *Wi(g)maranis, *Wi(g)maranes with intervocalic /n/. The only other possibility would be a scribal error leading to *Wi(g)maralis, *Wi(g)marales. 

            There is a Medieval Ibero-Romance form Guiomar, that occasionally crops up as a name in Spanish and Portuguese --but the spelling on this one may suggest *Wilmar (because of Portuguese /l/ > /w/ --although I don't know when that kicked in)



             
          • Rick McCallister
            It occasionally crops up as a female name in Spanish and Ladino but I think it was unisex in the Middle Ages or Renaissance ________________________________
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 1, 2010
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              It occasionally crops up as a female name in Spanish and Ladino but I think it was unisex in the Middle Ages or Renaissance


              From: Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
              To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 4:56:11 PM
              Subject: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

               

              Guiomar is a female name (variation: Guimar), it's still used, but it's very rare.

              JS Lopes



              De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
              Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
              Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 1 de Dezembro de 2010 15:05:02
              Assunto: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

               




              From: Brian M. Scott <bm.brian@...>
              To: Ton Sales <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 10:11:36 PM
              Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

               

              At 6:44:26 PM on Tuesday, November 30, 2010, Ton Sales
              wrote:

              > Responding to Brian and João:

              > Germanic Wigamera (soon contracted into Wigmera) appears
              > as "Latin" Vimaranus in Historia compostelana (1586).

              In other words, <Wigmera(n)> *isn't* attested; it's
              inferred, from such forms as <Wimar> 688, 697, <Vimara> 841,
              <(Lucidii) Vimarani> 870, <Uimaran> 925, <Guimar> 980,
              <Guimara> 829, and many others noted in Piel & Kremer.
              While I think it likely that it is from some dithematic name
              in *wi:g-, this seems to be less than certain.

              Brian

              Given the Portuguese form, it has to be *Wi(g)maranis, *Wi(g)maranes with intervocalic /n/. The only other possibility would be a scribal error leading to *Wi(g)maralis, *Wi(g)marales. 

              There is a Medieval Ibero-Romance form Guiomar, that occasionally crops up as a name in Spanish and Portuguese --but the spelling on this one may suggest *Wilmar (because of Portuguese /l/ > /w/ --although I don't know when that kicked in)



               

            • Joao S. Lopes
              Guiomar/Guimar is a female name, and I ve found references that it s a Breton name, Guiomarch. Joao SL ________________________________ De: Rick McCallister
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 2, 2010
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                Guiomar/Guimar is a female name, and I've found references that it's a Breton name, Guiomarch.

                Joao SL



                De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
                Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 1 de Dezembro de 2010 15:05:02
                Assunto: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                 




                From: Brian M. Scott <bm.brian@...>
                To: Ton Sales <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 10:11:36 PM
                Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                 

                At 6:44:26 PM on Tuesday, November 30, 2010, Ton Sales
                wrote:

                > Responding to Brian and João:

                > Germanic Wigamera (soon contracted into Wigmera) appears
                > as "Latin" Vimaranus in Historia compostelana (1586).

                In other words, <Wigmera(n)> *isn't* attested; it's
                inferred, from such forms as <Wimar> 688, 697, <Vimara> 841,
                <(Lucidii) Vimarani> 870, <Uimaran> 925, <Guimar> 980,
                <Guimara> 829, and many others noted in Piel & Kremer.
                While I think it likely that it is from some dithematic name
                in *wi:g-, this seems to be less than certain.

                Brian

                Given the Portuguese form, it has to be *Wi(g)maranis, *Wi(g)maranes with intervocalic /n/. The only other possibility would be a scribal error leading to *Wi(g)maralis, *Wi(g)marales. 

                There is a Medieval Ibero-Romance form Guiomar, that occasionally crops up as a name in Spanish and Portuguese --but the spelling on this one may suggest *Wilmar (because of Portuguese /l/ > /w/ --although I don't know when that kicked in)



                 
              • Torsten
                ... FWIW Roland Ottebjörk Svenska förnamn (number in parentheses is year first documented in Sweden) Vilmar (1830) German name, Old German Willimar,
                Message 7 of 18 , Dec 2, 2010
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                  > At 6:44:26 PM on Tuesday, November 30, 2010, Ton Sales
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  > > Responding to Brian and João:
                  >
                  > > Germanic Wigamera (soon contracted into Wigmera) appears
                  > > as "Latin" Vimaranus in Historia compostelana (1586).
                  >
                  > In other words, <Wigmera(n)> *isn't* attested; it's
                  > inferred, from such forms as <Wimar> 688, 697, <Vimara> 841,
                  > <(Lucidii) Vimarani> 870, <Uimaran> 925, <Guimar> 980,
                  > <Guimara> 829, and many others noted in Piel & Kremer.
                  > While I think it likely that it is from some dithematic name
                  > in *wi:g-, this seems to be less than certain.
                  >
                  > Brian
                  > Given the Portuguese form, it has to be *Wi(g)maranis,
                  > *Wi(g)maranes with intervocalic /n/. The only other possibility
                  > would be a scribal error leading to *Wi(g)maralis, *Wi(g)marales.
                  > There is a Medieval Ibero-Romance form Guiomar, that occasionally
                  > crops up as a name in Spanish and Portuguese --but the spelling on
                  > this one may suggest *Wilmar (because of Portuguese /l/ > /w/ --
                  > although I don't know when that kicked in)
                  >
                  --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Joao S. Lopes" <josimo70@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Guiomar/Guimar is a female name, and I've found references that
                  > it's a Breton name, Guiomarch.


                  FWIW
                  Roland Ottebjörk
                  Svenska förnamn
                  (number in parentheses is year first documented in Sweden)

                  Vilmar (1830) German name, Old German Willimar, compounded from words for "will" and "famous". A side form Vilmer (1870) may be formed on the pattern of Hilmer. Both forms are usually seen as masc. to the female Vilma.

                  Vimar (1873) newly formed name, which may correspond to OSw. Vigmar.



                  Torsten
                • Joao S. Lopes
                  Could Vimarani have the same meaning that German Weimar? From Wikipedia: The oldest records about Weimar date back to the year 899. Its name changed over the
                  Message 8 of 18 , Dec 3, 2010
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                    Could Vimarani have the same meaning that German Weimar? From Wikipedia:

                    The oldest records about Weimar date back to the year 899. Its name changed over the centuries from Wimares through Wimari to Wimar and finally Weimar; it is probably derived from Old High German wih 'holy' + mari 'standing water, swamp'.[2] (Another theory derives the first element from OHG win 'meadow, pasture.'[3])

                    JS Lopes



                    De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
                    Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                    Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 1 de Dezembro de 2010 15:05:02
                    Assunto: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                     




                    From: Brian M. Scott <bm.brian@...>
                    To: Ton Sales <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 10:11:36 PM
                    Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                     

                    At 6:44:26 PM on Tuesday, November 30, 2010, Ton Sales
                    wrote:

                    > Responding to Brian and João:

                    > Germanic Wigamera (soon contracted into Wigmera) appears
                    > as "Latin" Vimaranus in Historia compostelana (1586).

                    In other words, <Wigmera(n)> *isn't* attested; it's
                    inferred, from such forms as <Wimar> 688, 697, <Vimara> 841,
                    <(Lucidii) Vimarani> 870, <Uimaran> 925, <Guimar> 980,
                    <Guimara> 829, and many others noted in Piel & Kremer.
                    While I think it likely that it is from some dithematic name
                    in *wi:g-, this seems to be less than certain.

                    Brian

                    Given the Portuguese form, it has to be *Wi(g)maranis, *Wi(g)maranes with intervocalic /n/. The only other possibility would be a scribal error leading to *Wi(g)maralis, *Wi(g)marales. 

                    There is a Medieval Ibero-Romance form Guiomar, that occasionally crops up as a name in Spanish and Portuguese --but the spelling on this one may suggest *Wilmar (because of Portuguese /l/ > /w/ --although I don't know when that kicked in)



                     
                  • Rick McCallister
                    But Guimarães is a patronymic, so I can buy the wih- part but not the mari part. There are other Germanic names that end in -mar, such a Dagmar, etc., so -mar
                    Message 9 of 18 , Dec 3, 2010
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                      But Guimarães is a patronymic, so I can buy the wih- part but not the mari part. There are other Germanic names that end in -mar, such a Dagmar, etc., so -mar should not be the problem.

                      From: Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
                      To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 5:22:28 AM
                      Subject: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                       

                      Could Vimarani have the same meaning that German Weimar? From Wikipedia:

                      The oldest records about Weimar date back to the year 899. Its name changed over the centuries from Wimares through Wimari to Wimar and finally Weimar; it is probably derived from Old High German wih 'holy' + mari 'standing water, swamp'.[2] (Another theory derives the first element from OHG win 'meadow, pasture.'[3])

                      JS Lopes



                      De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
                      Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                      Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 1 de Dezembro de 2010 15:05:02
                      Assunto: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                       




                      From: Brian M. Scott <bm.brian@...>
                      To: Ton Sales <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 10:11:36 PM
                      Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                       

                      At 6:44:26 PM on Tuesday, November 30, 2010, Ton Sales
                      wrote:

                      > Responding to Brian and João:

                      > Germanic Wigamera (soon contracted into Wigmera) appears
                      > as "Latin" Vimaranus in Historia compostelana (1586).

                      In other words, <Wigmera(n)> *isn't* attested; it's
                      inferred, from such forms as <Wimar> 688, 697, <Vimara> 841,
                      <(Lucidii) Vimarani> 870, <Uimaran> 925, <Guimar> 980,
                      <Guimara> 829, and many others noted in Piel & Kremer.
                      While I think it likely that it is from some dithematic name
                      in *wi:g-, this seems to be less than certain.

                      Brian

                      Given the Portuguese form, it has to be *Wi(g)maranis, *Wi(g)maranes with intervocalic /n/. The only other possibility would be a scribal error leading to *Wi(g)maralis, *Wi(g)marales. 

                      There is a Medieval Ibero-Romance form Guiomar, that occasionally crops up as a name in Spanish and Portuguese --but the spelling on this one may suggest *Wilmar (because of Portuguese /l/ > /w/ --although I don't know when that kicked in)



                       

                    • Joao S. Lopes
                      There s another Portuguese toponymic, probably with an analogous preffix: GUIMAREI
                      Message 10 of 18 , Dec 3, 2010
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                        There's another Portuguese toponymic, probably with an analogous preffix: GUIMAREI < villa Vimaredi, that is, Vimaredo's village. Suffix - redo < Gothic re:ds.

                        JS Lopes



                        De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
                        Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                        Enviadas: Sexta-feira, 3 de Dezembro de 2010 11:42:00
                        Assunto: Re: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                         


                        But Guimarães is a patronymic, so I can buy the wih- part but not the mari part. There are other Germanic names that end in -mar, such a Dagmar, etc., so -mar should not be the problem.

                        From: Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
                        To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 5:22:28 AM
                        Subject: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                         

                        Could Vimarani have the same meaning that German Weimar? From Wikipedia:

                        The oldest records about Weimar date back to the year 899. Its name changed over the centuries from Wimares through Wimari to Wimar and finally Weimar; it is probably derived from Old High German wih 'holy' + mari 'standing water, swamp'.[2] (Another theory derives the first element from OHG win 'meadow, pasture.'[3])

                        JS Lopes



                        De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
                        Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                        Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 1 de Dezembro de 2010 15:05:02
                        Assunto: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                         




                        From: Brian M. Scott <bm.brian@...>
                        To: Ton Sales <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 10:11:36 PM
                        Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                         

                        At 6:44:26 PM on Tuesday, November 30, 2010, Ton Sales
                        wrote:

                        > Responding to Brian and João:

                        > Germanic Wigamera (soon contracted into Wigmera) appears
                        > as "Latin" Vimaranus in Historia compostelana (1586).

                        In other words, <Wigmera(n)> *isn't* attested; it's
                        inferred, from such forms as <Wimar> 688, 697, <Vimara> 841,
                        <(Lucidii) Vimarani> 870, <Uimaran> 925, <Guimar> 980,
                        <Guimara> 829, and many others noted in Piel & Kremer.
                        While I think it likely that it is from some dithematic name
                        in *wi:g-, this seems to be less than certain.

                        Brian

                        Given the Portuguese form, it has to be *Wi(g)maranis, *Wi(g)maranes with intervocalic /n/. The only other possibility would be a scribal error leading to *Wi(g)maralis, *Wi(g)marales. 

                        There is a Medieval Ibero-Romance form Guiomar, that occasionally crops up as a name in Spanish and Portuguese --but the spelling on this one may suggest *Wilmar (because of Portuguese /l/ > /w/ --although I don't know when that kicked in)



                         


                         
                      • Rick McCallister
                        Remember that both /l/ and /r/ also disappeared intervocalically in Portuguese, so do we have an attested form *Vimaredi? If not, we may wish to consider
                        Message 11 of 18 , Dec 3, 2010
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                          Remember that both /l/ and /r/ also disappeared intervocalically in Portuguese, so do we have an attested form *Vimaredi? If not, we may wish to consider **Vimarali and **Vimarani


                          From: Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
                          To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 6:29:43 PM
                          Subject: Res: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                           

                          There's another Portuguese toponymic, probably with an analogous preffix: GUIMAREI < villa Vimaredi, that is, Vimaredo's village. Suffix - redo < Gothic re:ds.

                          JS Lopes



                          De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
                          Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                          Enviadas: Sexta-feira, 3 de Dezembro de 2010 11:42:00
                          Assunto: Re: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                           


                          But Guimarães is a patronymic, so I can buy the wih- part but not the mari part. There are other Germanic names that end in -mar, such a Dagmar, etc., so -mar should not be the problem.

                          From: Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
                          To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 5:22:28 AM
                          Subject: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                           

                          Could Vimarani have the same meaning that German Weimar? From Wikipedia:

                          The oldest records about Weimar date back to the year 899. Its name changed over the centuries from Wimares through Wimari to Wimar and finally Weimar; it is probably derived from Old High German wih 'holy' + mari 'standing water, swamp'.[2] (Another theory derives the first element from OHG win 'meadow, pasture.'[3])

                          JS Lopes



                          De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
                          Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                          Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 1 de Dezembro de 2010 15:05:02
                          Assunto: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                           




                          From: Brian M. Scott <bm.brian@...>
                          To: Ton Sales <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 10:11:36 PM
                          Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                           

                          At 6:44:26 PM on Tuesday, November 30, 2010, Ton Sales
                          wrote:

                          > Responding to Brian and João:

                          > Germanic Wigamera (soon contracted into Wigmera) appears
                          > as "Latin" Vimaranus in Historia compostelana (1586).

                          In other words, <Wigmera(n)> *isn't* attested; it's
                          inferred, from such forms as <Wimar> 688, 697, <Vimara> 841,
                          <(Lucidii) Vimarani> 870, <Uimaran> 925, <Guimar> 980,
                          <Guimara> 829, and many others noted in Piel & Kremer.
                          While I think it likely that it is from some dithematic name
                          in *wi:g-, this seems to be less than certain.

                          Brian

                          Given the Portuguese form, it has to be *Wi(g)maranis, *Wi(g)maranes with intervocalic /n/. The only other possibility would be a scribal error leading to *Wi(g)maralis, *Wi(g)marales. 

                          There is a Medieval Ibero-Romance form Guiomar, that occasionally crops up as a name in Spanish and Portuguese --but the spelling on this one may suggest *Wilmar (because of Portuguese /l/ > /w/ --although I don't know when that kicked in)



                           


                           

                        • Joao S. Lopes
                          DOCUMENTACIÓN.-1:En los Tumbos de Sobrado - trancriptos por Pilar Loscertales- figura el nombre que dió origen al aquí comentado en cinco documentos: a)el
                          Message 12 of 18 , Dec 5, 2010
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                            DOCUMENTACIÓN.-1:En los Tumbos de Sobrado - trancriptos por Pilar Loscertales- figura el nombre que dió origen al aquí comentado en cinco documentos: a)el 1-129, del año 942- nos ofrece la forma "Vimaredo".- b) el 1-31, del 28-6-951- nos presenta "Vimaredus".- c) el1-3 del 14-5-952, nos presenta también "VImaredus".- d) el 1-131, del 15-8-10, nos da el topónimo "Vimaredi" y el antropónimo "neptos Vimaredi" .- e) el 1-133 del 22-1-1022, nos vuelve a traer "Vimaredus".
                            2: En el Tumbo de Samos - transcripto por M. Lucas Alvarez- figuran en el documento 47, dos grafías: a) "Vimaredo", de villa Astragis; y b) "Vimeredo" (probable errata, en vez de "Vimaredo").
                            3: Piel-Kremer- en "Hispano gotiches Namenbuch" (Heilderberg-1976)- nos transmite entre otras las siguientes grafías documentales: a)como antropónimos: "Vimaredo" del año 760; "Wimaredo", obispo de Lugo en 811; "Guimareo" en las "Inquisitiones" portuguesas del 1258.- b)como topónimos: los documentados en el actual Portugal- pero que entonces eran de Galicia- "Vimaredi/Vimarei" de donde el "Guimarei" en la zona bracadense.
                            PERVIVENCIA.-1: De la forma "Vimaredu", pervive el actual "Guimareu" que es una aldea del municipio de Cee (A Coruña)
                            2: De la forma del genitivo "Vimaredi" (= popsesión "de Vimaredo")proceden los cinco "Guimarey" reseñados en el nomenclátor del 1960: a) el lugar así llamado en el municipio de Cuntis (Pontevedra).- b)otro lugar en Monterrey (Ourense).-c)una aldea en Outes (A Coruña)y d)don aldeas en la provincia de Lugo (en Friol y en Neira de Xusá).


                            Source:
                            http://www.misapellidos.com/ver_datos.phtml?cod=20272


                            De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
                            Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                            Enviadas: Sexta-feira, 3 de Dezembro de 2010 22:34:54
                            Assunto: Re: Res: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                             

                            Remember that both /l/ and /r/ also disappeared intervocalically in Portuguese, so do we have an attested form *Vimaredi? If not, we may wish to consider **Vimarali and **Vimarani


                            From: Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
                            To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 6:29:43 PM
                            Subject: Res: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                             

                            There's another Portuguese toponymic, probably with an analogous preffix: GUIMAREI < villa Vimaredi, that is, Vimaredo's village. Suffix - redo < Gothic re:ds.

                            JS Lopes



                            De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
                            Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                            Enviadas: Sexta-feira, 3 de Dezembro de 2010 11:42:00
                            Assunto: Re: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                             


                            But Guimarães is a patronymic, so I can buy the wih- part but not the mari part. There are other Germanic names that end in -mar, such a Dagmar, etc., so -mar should not be the problem.

                            From: Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
                            To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 5:22:28 AM
                            Subject: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                             

                            Could Vimarani have the same meaning that German Weimar? From Wikipedia:

                            The oldest records about Weimar date back to the year 899. Its name changed over the centuries from Wimares through Wimari to Wimar and finally Weimar; it is probably derived from Old High German wih 'holy' + mari 'standing water, swamp'.[2] (Another theory derives the first element from OHG win 'meadow, pasture.'[3])

                            JS Lopes



                            De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
                            Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                            Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 1 de Dezembro de 2010 15:05:02
                            Assunto: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                             




                            From: Brian M. Scott <bm.brian@...>
                            To: Ton Sales <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 10:11:36 PM
                            Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                             

                            At 6:44:26 PM on Tuesday, November 30, 2010, Ton Sales
                            wrote:

                            > Responding to Brian and João:

                            > Germanic Wigamera (soon contracted into Wigmera) appears
                            > as "Latin" Vimaranus in Historia compostelana (1586).

                            In other words, <Wigmera(n)> *isn't* attested; it's
                            inferred, from such forms as <Wimar> 688, 697, <Vimara> 841,
                            <(Lucidii) Vimarani> 870, <Uimaran> 925, <Guimar> 980,
                            <Guimara> 829, and many others noted in Piel & Kremer.
                            While I think it likely that it is from some dithematic name
                            in *wi:g-, this seems to be less than certain.

                            Brian

                            Given the Portuguese form, it has to be *Wi(g)maranis, *Wi(g)maranes with intervocalic /n/. The only other possibility would be a scribal error leading to *Wi(g)maralis, *Wi(g)marales. 

                            There is a Medieval Ibero-Romance form Guiomar, that occasionally crops up as a name in Spanish and Portuguese --but the spelling on this one may suggest *Wilmar (because of Portuguese /l/ > /w/ --although I don't know when that kicked in)



                             


                             


                             
                          • Joao S. Lopes
                            More: wima afirmando que el segundo componente rei procede de reth-s = conselho . Posteriromente en Hispano gotiches Namenbuch - ya mencionado, en
                            Message 13 of 18 , Dec 5, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              More:

                              "wima" afirmando que el segundo componente "rei" procede de "reth-s = conselho".
                              Posteriromente en "Hispano gotiches Namenbuch"- ya mencionado, en colaboración de Piel con Kremer (1976)
                              aduce al radical germánico "vim" (a) sin indicar su significado. Todo esto es extraño cuando Pokorny (en su "Indogermanisches Etymologisches Wórterbuch", en la sigla IEW, del año 1959) constata en la página 1.121 los radicales germánicos "vim, vima,veima", correspondientes al latín "vimen"(de donde el "vimio" gallego y el "mimbre" castellano)- y cuyo significado básico es el de "Flexible, doblegable, vacilante".
                              es decir que Pokorny nos da la base segura para la primera parte de la palabra, para "Vima"- que sicologicamente significa "vacilante, inseguro".
                              Respecto de la segunda parte, también resulta sorprendente la afirmación de Piel. El radical propuesto por él - el radical "reth-s (= conselho") no puede ser admisible, ya que esa "th" interior e intervocálica, daría en gallego "d"; pero no desaparecería como se vé que desapareció en "Guimareu" y en "Guimarey/Guimarei". En consecuencia, para esa segunda parte del compuesto, hay que buscar otro radical germánico diferente al admitido por Piel; es decir, distinto del "reth-s" (=conselho) que , no obstante dió origen a otros nombres gallegos diferentes de éstos.
                              Tambiém Pokorny nos dá el radical pertinente en la página 861, en "reidh" donde constata el germánico "*(ga)-raidia" y el gótico "ga-raid-jian" con el significado de "ordenar, asegurar, ayudar". Se sabe que el "ai" gótico equivale a una "e" abierta. Por lo tanto, el significado correcto y la etimología de "Vima-redo/Vima-redi" y por rllo la de "Guimareu/Guimarey/Guimarei" es la de "vacilante-asegurar"; es decir, "EL QUE ASEGURA, ORDENA O AYUDA A LOS VACILANTES".
                              CONSECUENCIA.- 1: Vemos la persistencia dúplice de los casos declinacioneles: a) el acusativo (denominado también "casus generalis" en nuestras lenguas románicas) en "Guimareu" de "Vimaredu-m"; y b) el genitivi en "Guimarey/Gumarei", de !Vimaredi".



                              De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
                              Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                              Enviadas: Sexta-feira, 3 de Dezembro de 2010 22:34:54
                              Assunto: Re: Res: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                               

                              Remember that both /l/ and /r/ also disappeared intervocalically in Portuguese, so do we have an attested form *Vimaredi? If not, we may wish to consider **Vimarali and **Vimarani


                              From: Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
                              To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 6:29:43 PM
                              Subject: Res: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                               

                              There's another Portuguese toponymic, probably with an analogous preffix: GUIMAREI < villa Vimaredi, that is, Vimaredo's village. Suffix - redo < Gothic re:ds.

                              JS Lopes



                              De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
                              Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                              Enviadas: Sexta-feira, 3 de Dezembro de 2010 11:42:00
                              Assunto: Re: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                               


                              But Guimarães is a patronymic, so I can buy the wih- part but not the mari part. There are other Germanic names that end in -mar, such a Dagmar, etc., so -mar should not be the problem.

                              From: Joao S. Lopes <josimo70@...>
                              To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 5:22:28 AM
                              Subject: Res: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                               

                              Could Vimarani have the same meaning that German Weimar? From Wikipedia:

                              The oldest records about Weimar date back to the year 899. Its name changed over the centuries from Wimares through Wimari to Wimar and finally Weimar; it is probably derived from Old High German wih 'holy' + mari 'standing water, swamp'.[2] (Another theory derives the first element from OHG win 'meadow, pasture.'[3])

                              JS Lopes



                              De: Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>
                              Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
                              Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 1 de Dezembro de 2010 15:05:02
                              Assunto: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                               




                              From: Brian M. Scott <bm.brian@...>
                              To: Ton Sales <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Tue, November 30, 2010 10:11:36 PM
                              Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Germanic - maran/Gothic -mara

                               

                              At 6:44:26 PM on Tuesday, November 30, 2010, Ton Sales
                              wrote:

                              > Responding to Brian and João:

                              > Germanic Wigamera (soon contracted into Wigmera) appears
                              > as "Latin" Vimaranus in Historia compostelana (1586).

                              In other words, <Wigmera(n)> *isn't* attested; it's
                              inferred, from such forms as <Wimar> 688, 697, <Vimara> 841,
                              <(Lucidii) Vimarani> 870, <Uimaran> 925, <Guimar> 980,
                              <Guimara> 829, and many others noted in Piel & Kremer.
                              While I think it likely that it is from some dithematic name
                              in *wi:g-, this seems to be less than certain.

                              Brian

                              Given the Portuguese form, it has to be *Wi(g)maranis, *Wi(g)maranes with intervocalic /n/. The only other possibility would be a scribal error leading to *Wi(g)maralis, *Wi(g)marales. 

                              There is a Medieval Ibero-Romance form Guiomar, that occasionally crops up as a name in Spanish and Portuguese --but the spelling on this one may suggest *Wilmar (because of Portuguese /l/ > /w/ --although I don't know when that kicked in)



                               


                               


                               
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