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Re: [tied] Semele - k^em- 'the hornless'

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  • alexandru_mg3
    ... But what is the Ancient Greek Text that he took as reference? Marius
    Message 1 of 18 , May 22, 2009
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      --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Alexandru Moeller <alxmoeller@...> wrote:

      > I try to translate it in english as such:
      >
      > "... before the poets remodeled her into a hunter, Artemis-Hekate was a
      > deity of storm havingand behind her a pride of barking dogs which caught
      > the souls of the deads; the popular belief recognises in the barking of
      > the dog the entrance or the exit of a soul; for the keeping the life,
      > people sacrificed dogs to the godess , the same for
      > Genetyllis-Eileithyia and for the Hekater "fusforos"
      >
      >
      > I am sorry I don't have the time to go deeper into this, I did not
      > intended to make a big deal of this story with this, I just got
      > contraried by the Semele-Gebele-Himel and that is all. Unfortunately,
      > right now I don't have the neccessary time to develop more this matter
      > thus I have to step out by now:-)
      >
      > Alex


      But what is the Ancient Greek Text that he took as reference?

      Marius
    • Berzovan Alexandru
      About Zalmoxis, things are very controversial. Real problem about Zalmoxis/Zamolxis is that there is no clear information on him, and on his doctrine. We do
      Message 2 of 18 , May 24, 2009
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        About Zalmoxis, things are very controversial.

        Real problem about Zalmoxis/Zamolxis is that there is no clear information on him, and on his doctrine. We do not know even its correct name: it is true that we have an attested "Zalmo"degikos, but that does excclude the existent of a "Zamol"... There is alot of scientific papers and books on the topic and opinions are highly contrastant, the most recent ones in Romanian literature belong to Zoe Petre," Practica Nemuririi. O lectura critica a izvoarelor grecesti despre geti" (that is of 2004), respectively the ones of Dan Dana, the student of Zoe Petre and Francois Hartog (he made his phd at Ecole des Hautes Etudes en Sciences Sociales from Paris), his phd was published as "Zalmoxis, de la Herodot la Mircea Eliade. Istorii despre un zeu al pretextului" (2008). If anyone knows of something other in Bulgaria on this topic, please tell me. Dan Dana  says that the only source for Zalmoxis is the text of Herodotus and all the others are copied from him, that all the interpretations of the nature of Zalmoxis are flawed, etc. In my opinion, many of his jugments are totally flawed and his aproach is extremely rigid, but nevertheles, the book is a must read if just to see the new trends in Romanian historiography....

        with respect,
        Alexandru B


        From: Alexandru Moeller <alxmoeller@...>
        To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 12:38:08 AM
        Subject: Re: [tied] Semele - k^em- 'the hornless'

        alexandru_mg3 schrieb:

        >
        >
        >
        > --- In cybalist@yahoogroup s.com <mailto:cybalist% 40yahoogroups. com>,
        > Alexandru Moeller <alxmoeller@ ...> wrote:
        >
        > > secondly, Zamolxis was not one and the same with Gebleizis, even
        > > in wiki you can find some kind of informations. I see also that the
        > > paralelism zemele/gebele has been already mentioned by Kretschmer
        > > too.(http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gebeleizis
        > <http://ro.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Gebeleizis>)
        > > Unfortunately the english version of wiki here is too short and does not
        > > mention this aspect.
        > > Alex
        >
        > I don't have any proud to be right or wrong here...
        >
        > All I did is that I took the original quotation and only next the
        > interpreters:
        >
        > The SINGLE SOURCE here is Herodotus:

        yes, IV. 94
        >
        > 94. As to their claim to be immortal, this is how they show it:
        > they
        > believe that they do not die, but that he who perishes goes
        >
        > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
        > TO THE GOD SALMOXIS OR GEBELEXIS, AS SOME OF THEM CALL HIM.
        > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

        in the 3 manuscripts the name is not really good to read,
        Thomaschek measn it is wroten ///beleizin and maybe there has been
        Sebel-eizin or Zibeleizin where Sibel/Zibel should be "thunderbolt"

        >
        >
        > S Herodotus clearly tell us abut one and the same GOD having 2 different
        > names
        >
        > (in my opinion is also the same name with only dialectic differences)
        >
        >
        > Marius

        I have pretty doubghts to consider dialectal differences such big
        differences : Zalmoxis-?ebeleizis ... which is the reason you think these
        are one and the same name? To me it appears to be two difterent name,
        too much of vocalic differences here, letting by side the rest..

        Alex


      • alexandru_mg3
        ... I don t know who Dan Dana is (sorry for my ignorance :)) but I don t think that Platon s information below came from Herodotus
        Message 3 of 18 , May 25, 2009
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          --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Berzovan Alexandru
          > Dan Dana says that the only source for Zalmoxis is the text of
          > Herodotus and all the others are copied from him,


          I don't know who Dan Dana is (sorry for my ignorance :))
          but I don't think that Platon's information below came from Herodotus


          <Such, Charmides, I said, is the nature of the charm, which I learned when serving with the army from one of the physicians of the Thracian king Zamolxis, who are to be so skilful that they can even give immortality. This Thracian told me that in these notions of theirs, which I was just now mentioning, the Greek physicians are quite right as far as they go; but Zamolxis, he added, our king, who is also a god, says further, "that as you ought not to attempt to cure the eyes without the head, or the head without the body, so neither ought you to attempt to cure the body without the soul; and this," he said, "is the reason why the cure of many diseases is unknown to the physicians of Hellas, because they are ignorant of the whole, which ought to be studied also; for the part can never be well unless the whole is well.
          >


          Even the above story is invented by Platon, for the sake of the argumentation, the reference to Zamolxis' doctrine is for sure the real one...for the veridicity of argumentation.
          So Platon seems to be well aware of Zamolxis' doctrine, even in much more detail and independently of Herodotus' text (at least of that one that arrived to us))

          http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/plato_charmides01.htm


          Marius
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