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Salt, s-/h-

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  • tgpedersen
    ... BTW s- h- seems to be otherwise only Brythonic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_languages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brythonic_languages since
    Message 1 of 121 , Oct 5, 2008
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      --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > > Based on hal- vs. sal- words for "salt"? After all you do seem
      > > > to have something similar in Bavarian/Austrian topos, or at
      > > > least in Hallstadt vs. Salzburg. Perhaps there both forms
      > > > co-existed and some splits of Celtic went for /h/ and others
      > > > kept /s/ and the transformation was not completely realized
      > >
      > >
      > > I forgot about that one. Here's more:
      > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halle,_Saxony-Anhalt
      > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halle,_North_Rhine-Westphalia
      > > versus
      > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saale
      > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A4nkische_Saale
      > >
      > > and
      > >
      > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallein
      > > vs.
      > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salzach
      > >
      > > It seems those who named (first navigated?) the rivers had s-, but
      > > those who produced salt had s- > h-
      > >
      >
      > Oops and BTW
      > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/56501
      > referring to
      > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/30032
      > Kuhn should have moved Lat. sa:l up among the pairs, paired with
      > Gmc. salt-.
      > Now if these water-oriented words were loaned into the a-voweled
      > 'mots populaires' of Latin and into Germanic from Venetic, then the
      > river names in sal- are Venetic too. And Sal- is one of Krahe's Old
      > European roots in river names, but Old European is supposed to be
      > Venetic anyway. It all adds up.

      BTW s- > h- seems to be otherwise only Brythonic
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_languages
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brythonic_languages
      since Gaulish has Saman "summer", cf. OI sam.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaulish_language
      Celtic around Halle/Saale seems to have been p-Celtic.
      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/20871
      Now how does *that* add up?


      Torsten
    • Torsten
      ... In the above posting, I assumed without proof that Roman-annexed territories contained an identifiable and self-conscious Roman expat community . I better
      Message 121 of 121 , Jul 19, 2011
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        --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Torsten" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
        --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
        >
        > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
        > >
        > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "keltikos" <keltikos@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > No, but it was common that people were moving on and around from
        > > > their original places, keeping their country-names, like Kasses
        > > > (Hesse, then Welliokasses, Biokasses, Trikasses in France) and
        > > > perhaps Turones (Thüringen, Tours and South Gallaecia?).
        > >
        > >
        > > The *kant-/katt- etc word means 'subtribe', AFAIK.
        > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/55551
        > >
        >
        > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/58032
        > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/57987
        >
        > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/54256
        >
        > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/59612
        >
        > Michel Lejeune,
        > Manuel de la langue Vénète
        > calls the Venetic gloss kant- (among others) 'éventuellement,
        > suffixés'.
        > Inscriptions:
        > 30. - C. Pauli, Altit. Forsch. I, 1885, n° 71; L37 VII; PP Es 49.
        > Dédicace sinistroverse (partant de la tête, sur une face large) :
        > ka.n.ta ruma.n[.]na dona.s.to re.i.tia.n.
        > Dans le théonyme (accusatif régi par dona.s.to : § 55) le second i
        > est aussi court qu'un point.
        > Autre style votif de même dédicante : 31.
        >
        > [me: The Roman community/faction gave [this] to Reitia]
        >
        > 31. - G. Pauli, Altit. Forsch. I, 1885, n° 69; L37 XV; PP Es 50.
        > Dédicace sinistroverse (sur une face étroite, en partant de la
        > tête), offrande de la même dédicante qu'en 30. Texte :
        > nego [sic] na.s.to [sic] ka.n.ta ruman [sic] re.i.tiia.i.
        > Gravure plusieurs fois fautive : nego pour <m>ego; na.s.to pour
        > <do>na.s.to (le graveur, arrivé au o du pronom, ayant cru être
        > arrivé à celui de la première syllabe du verbe); ruman pour
        > ruma<.>n<.na>.
        >
        > [me: Me gave the Roman community(?)faction to Reitia]
        >
        > ...
        >
        > 81 A. -
        > A. Prosdocimi, Not. Sc. 1882, pl. VIII-16; L38 XXIII a; PP Es 80.
        > Sur le bord de l'urne, graffite sinistroverse : ka.n.( )
        > Peut-être amorce abandonnée, ou doublet abrégé, de la légende b.
        > Mais peut-être aussi première épitaphe (abrégée), une seconde
        > épitaphe (b) ayant été gravée à l'occasion d'un remploi de l'urne.
        > 81 B. - Même urne (L38 XXIII b). Sur le corps, graffite dextroverse:
        > ka.n.ta.i. vho[.]u.go.n.ta.i. vhr
        > Ou bien désignation d'une seule défunte (la même que signale le
        > graffite a) avec formule onomastique triple, à condition de corriger
        > le second nom (L38) en vho.u.go.n.t<n>a.i. (lapsus par
        > dissimilation) pour avoir un gamonyme, et de compléter le troisième
        > en vhr(ema.i.s.tia.i.) pour avoir un patronyme. - Ou bien deux
        > idionymes f. en asyndète, avec patronyme commun vhr( ) au dat.
        > sg. ou au dat. pl. : d'abord (a) utilisée pour Kanta:, l'urne aurait
        > été remployée (b) après la mort de sa sÅ"ur Fougonta:, et une
        > épitaphe commune gravée; voir § 57 b.
        >
        > [me: to/of the Foug-ont- faction/tribe/community vhr(?)]
        > Hans Kuhn,
        > Das letzte Indogermanisch
        > compares names in the territory of the Marsi in Italy with the names
        > of the territory of the Marsi in Westphalia, among them:
        > 'lacus Fucinus: Vochene (jetzt Vochem, zu Brühl, s. Köln), dazu
        > (Alba) Fucens/Fucentia (Ort): Vochentz (Vögnitz, sö. Schweinfurt),
        > vgl. auch Fohhences-heim'
        > Note the suffix alterantion: -in-/-ent-
        >
        > ...
        > 66. - G. F. Gamurrini, Appendice al C.I.I. (1880), no 4; L35 IX; PP
        > Es 11.
        > Provenance : Morlongo; contexte inconnu. Fragment d'obélisque de
        > trachyte. Il reste le bas de la partie inscrite sur 24 cm de haut et
        > une largeur de 17 cm (en bas) à 12 cm (en haut). Deux lignes
        > boustrophédon, l'une sinistroverse descendante, l'autre dextroverse
        > ascendante; dispositif :
        > Restitution la plus probable (évaluant à deux lettres les lacunes du
        > haut) :
        > [.e.g]o kata.i. | ege.s.tn[a.i.]
        > Omission d'un point dans .e<.>ge.s.tn[a.i.]; non notation de la
        > nasale antéconsonantique de ka<.n.>ta.i. (§ 157 b). Le .i. est
        > constitué par un tiret entre deux hastes longues, par inversion de
        > son tracé usuel (une haste longue entre deux tirets).
        >
        > [me: I, of/to the Egesta tribe], cf
        > Hans Kuhn,
        > Vor- und frühgermanische Ortsnamen und den Niederlanden,
        > in the list of placenames in -st
        > 'Eckst, ö. Assen, Drente, alt Exte Eegeste u. a.,'
        >
        > Note the loss of /n/ before /t/.
        > Manuel de la langue Vénète,
        > '
        > 157. Nasales antéconsonantiques : neutralisalion, au moins
        > partielle, de l'opposition /m/ ~ /n/ :
        > ...
        > b) Nasale + occlusive (séquences hétérosyllabiques). C'est, par
        > excellence, la position de neutralisation attendue pour les nasales.
        > Par malchance, nous n'avons pas de premiers termes de composés à
        > nasale finale (comme lat. com-/con-) où nous puissions suivre
        > l'accommodation de la nasale à l'occlusive qui suit. Au reste, nous
        > n'avons aucun exemple de nasale + labiale; seulement, quelques
        > exemples de nasale + dorsale (avec graphie -.n.k- : voir § 155 a),
        > et surtout des exemples de nasale + dentale; il en existe pour la
        > sonore (sans l'assimilation nd > nn qu'on trouve, notamment, en
        > osco-ombrien): .a.n.de-, 136/ANDE- , 236, ve.r.ko.n.darna, 24; on en
        > a un grand nombre pour la sourde (en particulier, participe
        > horvionte 123, et nombreux thèmes d'anthroponymes en -.n.t- : § 35
        > c1). - La nasale implosive paraît avoir été d'articulation
        > relativement débile.
        > A Este, en regard de plus de quarante exemples de -.n.t- (9, etc.),
        > on a quatre textes où la nasale est omise :
        > 66 (ka<.n.>ta.i.),
        > 77 (vho.u.go<.n.>ta),
        > 89 (vhogo<.n>tna.i.),
        > 100 (kvi<.n.>to);
        > il s'agit d'épitaphes de date Este-IV; chacune comprend un seul mot
        > en -nt- (celui où la nasale n'est pas notée). De date Este-IV aussi
        > est la dédicace de Vicence où l'on est tenté de lire .a.<.n.>tra
        > «intra:» (125), et qui, elle non plus, n'a pas d'autre mot en -nt-.
        > Nous ignorons si le phénomène, d'apparition sporadique, est
        > spécifiquement un phénomène tardif en vénète. Nous ignorons si
        > l'usage d'un même scribe était constant en la matière. Si la réponse
        > aux deux questions était négative, il serait loisible, dans
        > l'inscription atestine archaïque 75 ter (qui présente aussi vhontei)
        > de lire a<n>tisteit, et dans l'inscription vicentine archaïque 123
        > (qui présente aussi horvionte), de lire me<n>tlon.'
        >
        >
        > In other words, my understanding of *kant-/*katt-/*kass- as "edge,
        > side, faction, tribe" is not contradicted by the Venetic data, but
        > might even make new sense of well-known inscriptions.
        >
        > BTW, Venetic punctuation marks consonants in auslaut with a point.
        >

        In the above posting, I assumed without proof that Roman-annexed territories contained an identifiable and self-conscious Roman 'expat community'. I better find somethng to corroborate that assumption.

        David Magie
        Roman Rule in Asia Minor
        ch. The Consequences of Annexation
        pp. 162-163

        'There is another side to the picture. At the very time when the citizens of Pergamum were in debt and when the city had petitioned in vain for the abolition of the war-contribution demanded by the Romans, the Council and People voted to honour Diodorus by bestowing on him a golden wreath and by erecting no less than five statues of him, two of gold and two of bronze, one of each kind to be on horseback, and one of marble, the last to be set up in a temple which was likewise to be reared for his worship.4 Such an outlay of public funds immediately after an economic crisis seems indeed to indicate a reckless management of the municipal finances and shows why the city, as well as its citizens, became involved in debt.

        The loans which the citizens of Pergamum had contracted may have been advanced in part by the richer men of the city, but it is highly probable that in some cases, at least, they were made by Roman capitalists, who had come from Italy in the wake of the army. One of the decrees honouring Diodorus includes among other groups that of "the resident Romans,"5 and it can hardly be supposed that these were residing in Pergamum for any other purpose than the exploitation of the country.

        This is the earliest mention in Asia Minor of a type of organization which grew up in the provinces of Rome - a definitely constituted group of Italians permanently domiciled in a city and existing as a special association alongside of the citizens.6 Technically, such a group was known as a conventus Civium Romanorum, but for practical purposes it was called more simply "the resident Romans" or "the Romans engaged in business." With the love of organizing that is characteristic of their kind, these business-men established associations, each having officials and a treasury of its own. They passed resolutions, sometimes acting conjointly with the Council and People of their city, and conferred honours on some important person, a Roman, a member of their own association, or a citizen of the community. As time went on, the groups of the entire province would sometimes combine for some joint action.7 In the second or early first century before Christ, these groups existed in many cities, not only at Pergamum but also at Ephesus, Priene, Tralles, Adramyttium and Caunus and on the islands of Chios and Cos. During the first forty years of the province of Asia the influx of Italians must have been great indeed, for in 88 b.c. as many as 80,000 are said to have been massacred by order of King Mithradates.l But it was especially after the expulsion of the Pontic King that Italian settlers crowded into the province and the real heydey of exploitation began. In the first century and under the emperors there was an association of "resident Romans" in almost every city of importance.

        These associations evidently regarded themselves as constituting a body apart from and independent of the community in which they lived.8 They were also so regarded in cases where the law was concerned. In the free cities, at least during the Republican period, they were subject to the city's jurisdiction unless specifically exempted, but elsewhere they could not be tried by local magistrates but only by the Roman governor or his substitute.9 From the more important groups were chosen members of the governor's consilium, or panel from which he drew referees or jurymen for the lawsuits of the provincials conducted by him.10 Despite their independence of the community, these Italians shared in all the advantages which the communal life afforded. They were eligible for election to the local offices,11 and, as at Pergamum they were included among those invited to the public banquet given by Diodorus,m so in other places also they shared in benefactions made to the people by dignitaries or public-spirited citizens.12

        The groups included not only Romans but also all citizens of the Italian towns which were in alliance with Rome; with the extension of citizenship in 89 b.c. to all the Italian allies this differentiation, of course, ceased, and all those whose homes were south of the Po became "Romans" in the eyes of the law. Men of all classes were eligible to membership - exporters of the products of Asia, merchants great and small, agents of the tax-farming corporations, veterans domiciled in the province, bankers who made loans to bankrupt cities, and minor capitalists who lent money to individuals. No distinction among the Roman settlers was made, either economic or social.
        ...

        4. I.G.R. IV 292, l. 23f.; 293 II, l. 17f. It is, of course, possible that these honours were not all carried out. We know only that, as provided by the decree (I.G.R. IV 292, 1. 37), a city-tribe was named after him; it was called, however, not πασπαρηίς, but διοδωρίς; sw: A.M. xxxv (1910), p. 422f., nos. ii, 13 and 19.

        5. ´ρωμαίων ο´ι `επιδημου~ντες; see I.G.R. iv 294 = O.G.I. 764, 1. 19, as corrected in AM. xxix (1904), p. 389. In the lists of ephebi enrolled at Pergamum, AM. xxvii (1902), p. 115f. (see Chap. VI note 8), xxxii (1907), p. 415f., xxxiii p. 384f and xxxv p. 422f., there are several Italian names. In one list, AM. xxxii p. 438, no. 303 (see xxxv p. 424), the ´ρωμαι~οι seem to have formed a separate group.

        6. For these conventus Civium Romanorum - which, of course, were wholly different from the judiciary conventus (conventus iuridici) or dioceses (see below note 41)- see A. Schulten De Conventibus Civ. Rom. (Berlin 1892), pp. if. and 26f.: E. Kornemann De Civibus Rom. in Provinciis Imperii consist. = Berl. Stud. f. Cl. Philol. xiv (1892), no. i and in R.E,. iv 1179f.: Mommsen in Eph. Ep. vii p. 440f. For those in the Asianic provinces see also Chapot Prov. Procons. p. 186f.: J. Hatzfeld Les Trafiquants Italiens dans l'Orient Hellénique (Paris 1919), pp. 44f, 90f. and 160f.: Broughton in Econ. Surv. iv p. 543f. For a list of the cities in these provinces in which these conventus are known during the Republican and the Imperial periods see Appendix iv. The associations were regularly and properly called Romani --- (name of city) consistentes or qui --- negotiantur; in Greek ο´ι κατοικου~ντες ´ρωμαι~οι or ο´ι πραγματενόμενοι ´ρωμαι~οι but sometimes simply ο´ι ´ρωμαι~οι. During the Republican period the associations seem to have been headed by magistri varying in number; no certain example of these officials, however, has been found in Asia Minor, for the assumption (R.E. iv 1190) that the two freedmen, entitled magistri, who appear in an inscription from Samos (C.I.L. iii 458) were magistri of a conventus Civium Romanorum is very doubtful. In the Imperial period a conventus seems ordinarily to have had a single curator; see Hatzfeld, p. 286. This official, as the list in Appendix iv shows, is known to have held office at Attaleia, Thyateira and Tralles. An official called κονβεντα[ρ]χήσας τω~ν ´ρωμαι~ων is known at Hierapolis (I.G.R. iv 818). A γραμματεύς of the conventus existed at Tralles (A.M. viii [1883], p. 328f., no. 10 = P.A.S. i p. 108, no. 10). No mention of a treasury appears in any inscription from Asia Minor, but the statues or other honours for which the various conventus must have paid are sufficient evidence that they had funds of their own.

        7. At Ephesus the conventus C. R. qui in Asia negotiantur honoured the Emperor Claudius (Ephesos iii p. 110, no. 19); at Laodiceia-on-Lycus ο´ι `επ`ι τη~ς `ασίας ´ρωμαι~οι combined with ο´ι `έλληνες (evidently the κοινόν of the province, see below note 48) and ´ο δη~μος ´ο Λαοδικέων in honouring a Q. Pomponius Flaccus (AM. xvi [1891], p. 144f. = I.G.R. iv 860); at Rhodes the C.R. qui in Asia negotiantur took some action unknown (C.I.L. iii 12266); and at Ephesus [ο´ι κατ`α τ`η]ν `ασίαν ο`ικου~[ντες ´ρωμαι~οι] (if the restoration be correct) seem to have set up a statue of the genius of the city (I.B.M. 517). Chapot, who knew only the inscription from Laodiceia, denied (Prov. Procons. p. 190) that the Romans of the whole province were thus organized in one group; but the inscriptions from Ephesus and Rhodes seem to demonstrate it clearly. That the group of mercatores qui Alexandr., Asiai, Syriai negotiantu[r], who made a dedication at Puteoli (C.I.L. x 1797 = Dessau 7273), were a still larger organization, as was suggested by Kornemann, is unlikely; more probably they were local merchants whose trade was carried on with these provinces; see Broughton in Econ. Surv. iv p. 548, note 96.

        8. This is apparent from the fact that in some cases, e.g. at Cibyra, Erythrae, Laodiceia, Smyrna and Teos, honours were conferred separately by ´ο δη~μος and ο´ι ´ρωμαι~οι. On the other hand, in many cities, e.g. Apameia, Assus, Cibyra, Cyzicus, Methymna, Pergamum, Philadelpheia (?), Prymnessus, Thyateira and Conana (Pisidia), action was taken conjointly by the βουλ`η κα`ι δη~μος (or the δη~μος) and ο´ι κατοικου~ντες (or πραγματενόμενοι) ´ρωμαι~οι, evidently distinct bodies. A similar distinction is made between singulos conventus (of Roman citizens) and singulas civitates in Caesar Bell. Civ. iii 32 (see above p. 403).

        9. See Mommsen RSt.R. iii p. 702 and Chapot Prov. Procons. pp. 125 and 190. In C.I.G. 2222 = Syll.8 785 = I.G.R. iv 943 (Chios, a re-enactment under Augustus of a senatus consultum of 80 b.c.) it is specifically provided that ο´ί τε παρ` α`υτοι~ς `όντες ´ρω[μ,αι~](ο)ι τοι~ς χείων ´υπακούωσιν νόμοις. Mommsen supposed (l.c., note 3) that under the emperors autonomy was taken away from Cyzicus and Rhodes because by inflicting capital punishment on Roman citizens the cities' courts had exceeded their powers, but these instances do not prove his contention. Cyzicus was deprived of its freedom by Tiberius because of violentia committed against Romans (Tacitus Ann. iv 36, 2f.: Suetonius Tib. 37: Cassius Dio lvii 24, 6; see above p. 503); it had once before been deprived of it for the same reason by Augustus (see Chap. XX note 21). The freedom of the Rhodians was taken away by Claudius (Cassius Dio lx 24, 4, see Chap. XXIII note 24) because they had impaled (ανεσκολόπισαν) certain Romans. In both cases it would seem that it was the illegality of the act that these emperors punished and not a regular procedure of the properly constituted courts of the cities.

        10. So in Sicily; see Cicero II Verr. ii 32f. and 70; iii 28: Mommsen RSt.R. I3 p. 317 and note 5. The belief that the members of the conventus formed this panel and also Mommsen's theory that only the richer (and hence more responsible) Romans were enrolled in it has found striking confirmation in the first and fourth of the edicts of Augustus recently found at Cyrene and dealing with law-suits in which provincials were concerned; see S.E.G. ix 8 = H. Malcovati Augusti Operum Fragmenta2 (Turin 1928), p. 39f. In these edicts the Emperor ordered that all cases involving life, freedom or nationality, hitherto tried by a jury selected from the 215 resident Romans having a taxable property of at least 2500 denarii, might henceforth, if the defendant so desired, be tried by a jury composed of equal numbers of Romans and "Greeks," all to be at least 25 years of age and having a minimum taxable property of 7500 denarii - unless it should prove necessary, on account of a dearth of those so qualified, to lower this amount to not less than one half. All other cases were henceforth, unless either party to the suit should express his preference for Romans, to be tried by a jury composed entirely of "Greeks," none of whom, however, might be domiciled in the city of which either party to the suit was a native. It may be supposed that a similar arrangement also existed in Asia, and that the same change was introduced there.

        11. So at Apameia, where four Roman citizens and one native are described as `άρξαντες `εν τω~ λ' κα`ι ρ´ `έτει (a.d. 45/6) ´ρωμαι~οι, πρώτως (i.e. the first Romans to hold the office); see I.G.R. iv 792. The curatores known from the inscriptions listed in Appendix iv from Attaleia and Thyateira (I.G.R. iv 1169 and 1255), Tralles (C.I.G. 2930) and the official from Hierapolis (I.G.R. iv 818) all held local offices.

        12. For example, at Panamara and Lagina in Caria the ´ρωμαι~οι, as well as the citizens, received the money-doles distributed by the priest and priestess; see B.C.H. xi (1887), pp. 146f., nos. 47, 48, 51; xii (1888), p. 255 = xxviii (1904), p. 23f., no. 2. At Priene they were included in the dole of oil and the free use of the public bath, as well as in the entertainments provided by generous magistrates; see Ins. Priene 112, 113 and 123.'

        So apparently such communities existed, and would have existed in Venetic-speaking regions before the Social War of 91-88 BCE.
        >
        > Note esp. note 6.
        >
        > That settles that question,...


        Now, the fact that the Latin term for the Venetic 'kanta' "ethnic community" is 'conventus' made me suspect that the Romans had engaged in som volks- or learned etymology here. Cf. the similar words in


        Ernout-Meillet

        'comes, -itis c.: qui va avec, compagnon [de marche]. On l'explique généralement par *com-it-s (v. eō), cf. pedes. L'e du nominatif au lieu de i attendu (*comis) s'expliquerait par l'influence de eques, mīles. Pour la forme et le sens, cf. σύνoδoς. Mais comes peut avoir été fait sur le modèle de eques, qui a entraîné pedes. Ancien, usuel.

        La notion de marche est bien sentie des anciens; mais, dans 1'usage, comes a le sens large de "compagnon", ´εται~ρος. Le comes accompagne souvent un supérieur; cf. Ulp.Dig. 47,10,15,16, comitem accipere debemus eum qui comitetur et sequatur et, ut ait Labeo, siue liberum, siue seruum, siue masculum, siue feminam; et ita comitem Labeo definit "qui frequentandi cuiusque causa, ut sequeretur destinatus in publίco priuatoue abductus fuerit". Il accompagne notamment les magistrats en fonction, les proconsuls par ex., et à l'époque impériale, des comite:s sont attachés officiellement aux empereurs (comite:s ordinis prīmī, secundī, tertī), et chargés de différentes fonctions (comitīua, cf. comitiānus) d'où fr. conte, it. conte, esp. conde, cf. M.L.2078, 2081 *comitissa, comes stabuli 2078a. Irl. coem.
        Dénominatif: comitō,-ās (et comitor) avec ses composés; d'où concomitō.

        comitium, -ī n. : désigne non pas le fait d'accompagner, mais le lieu de réunion, comitium qui locus a coeundo, i.e. insimul ueniendo est dictus. P.P.34,13, puis "l'assemblée". Souvent joint et opposé à forum. Il doit s'agir d'une formation indépendante, du même type que [sōl]stitium; *con-, servant de premier terme de composé nominal, a été traité autrement que dans co-eō où il est préverbe. Le pl. comitia désigne les assemblées légales et convoquées par le magistrat (par opposition à contiō "réunion publique"): comitia calāta, cūriāta, centuriāta. De là comitiālis: die:s c., morbus c., "le haut mal, l'épilepsie": prohibere comitia dicitur uitiare diem morbo qui uulgo quίdem maior, ceterum ob id ipsum comitialis appellatur, F.268,15; comitiō, -ās "aller aux comices, désigner dans les comices"; incomitiō "insulter en public" (mot plautinien). Pour la forme et l'emploi, cf. concilium.
        ...

        cōmis, -e adj. (la forme ancienne est peut-être cosmis qu'on lit dans l'inscr. de Duenos CIL I2 3; toutefois le sens du mot y est incertain): bienveillant, affable, indulgent, aimable, opposé par Cic. à asper, Rep.1,50, comme cōmitās à seue:ritās, Or. 34, Bru.148; cf. Thés. III 1791,6sqq.
        Emploi assez rare; à partir de l'époque impériale ne se rencontre plus que dans Horace, Ovide, Tite-Live, Tacite, Fronton, Apulée et Ausone. La 1. de l'Église et les écrivains vulgaires l'ignorent. Non roman. Dérivés: cōmiter, cōmitās.
        Si cosmis est la forme ancienne, on pourrait songer à voir dans cōmis un composé de la racine *smei- "rire, sourire", et le sens premier serait "qui sourit avec", cf. cōmis frōns, cōme:s oculī, T.L1,22,5, Ov. Ars 5, 510, et le gr. φιλoμμειδής.
        ...

        continor, -āris, -ātus sum, -ārĭ: rencontrer. Verbe rare, archaïque (Sisenna) et repris par les archaïsants de l'époque impériale, (Apul., Paneg., etc. ). Souvent écrit continuor par rapprochement avec continuas; mais ce n'est peut-être qu'une étymologie populaire; le rapprochement avec contiō n'est pas plus assuré. Non roman.
        ...

        contiō, -ōnis f, : - significat conuentum, non tamen aliam quam eum
        qui <a> magistratu uel a sacerdote publico per praeconem conuocatur, P.F.34,1. Du sens de "assemblée, réunion publique", on passe à celui de "discours prononcé devant le peuple assemblé"; de là contiōnor, -āris et ses dérivés; pour le sens, cf. gr. `αγoράομαι, et `αγoρεύω, de `αγoρά.
        - Ancien, usuel, classique. Rare après Hadrien.
        L'ablatif couentionid du SC Ba., I 23 indique le sentiment qu'on avait de l'étymologie (les graphies de l'inscription sont étymologiques plus que phonétiques).
        ...

        ueniō, -ĭs, ue:ni, uentum, uenīre
        ...
        Ancien classique et usuel.
        ...
        Des développements de sens particuliers se sont produits dans conueniō, -īs "venir ensemble, se réunir", qui, à côté de ce sens propre, conservé dans
        conuentus,-ūs m."réunion" (irl. conuent),
        conuenticulum, conuentīcius, conuentiō "assemblée" (britt. cenfaint) (et contiō q.u.),
        a pris le sens moral de "convenir avec (et "convenir à"), tomber d'accord", qui s'emploie aussi impersonnellement:
        conuenit ut,"il est convenu que"; M.L.2182 et 2893 *convenium, 2194 conventus.
        De là
        conuenie:ns "qui s'accorde avec; qui convient, convenable";
        conuenienter "en accord avec";
        conuenientia "accord, conformité",
        qui semblent créés par Cicéron pour traduire συμφώνως et συμπάθεια et ´oμoλoγία, cf.
        Fin.3,21, quod ´oμoλoγίαν Stoici, nos appellamus conuenientiam, si placet;
        Diu.2,124 ex quadam conuenientia et coniunctione naturae quam uocant συμπάθειαν;
        et les contraires
        inconuenie:ns (non dans Cic.),
        inconuenienter, -tia (tardifs);
        disconueniō (Hor., Lact,),
        disconuenientia (Tert.);
        ... '

        The semantic split between comitia "convoked assembly" and contiō "general public assembly" seems to me to be possibly high and low (re- and non-etymologized) forms, respectively, of the same (loaned?) word, something like *kaN-t-, and so possibly also conventus and contiō.

        Note also that there is no trace of the -e/i- of comes, -itis in the Romance 'conte' etc "count", as if it was borrowed directly from a Low Latin *kont- "compagnon".


        Torsten
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